ET or Not?

[Kieran]

Well, the only scenario where some other civilization would reasonably be concerned about us is the one that proposes the source of the UFO phenomena as being inside the solar system somewhere. I really don't see how anyone can reasonably argue that the human race will ever "threaten" anything extra-solar. We will probably continue to send robots out into inter-stellar space but any real excursion to another star by actual human beings isn't likely to happen in the foreseeable future. Interstellar war is a opium pipe dream.

No matter what it may turn out to be, I really don't think whatever is behind the UFO phenomena gives a hoot about the human race one way or another, at least not in anyway we could relate to. Our ability to create nuclear explosions might concern them but I think they have demonstrated their ability to disrupt those weapons at will.

The UFO phenomenon does have an interest in us as a species, too much of an interest, if you ask me. I think it is safe to assume they are not from a far of world outside or solar system, their actions since 1947 tell a different story. I'm convinced they are close by, were close by, i not sure, but they are not coming here from large distances away. At least that would be my view or take on it. Nuclear Explosions, a concern. Well a number of other countries have set of nuclear weapons during their testing over the years. If theses weapons were causing harm to Aliens living in another plane of existence wouldn't they have done something about it, wouldn't you think?

I was thinking about this the other day. If there was a nuclear war ( the vedic texts) thousands and thousands of years ago. Wouldn't a surviving race from that disaster try to prevent the same thing from repeating again? ( so would explain there interest in today's nuclear weapons) Also wouldn't the surviving race of this disaster have gone underground to protect themselves from Fall-out. It reminds me of the panic that was around in the 1960's, the fear of communist attack and bunkers were build, but the bombs never fell ( thank god)

 

[trainedobserver]

The UFO phenomenon does have an interest in us as a species, too much of an interest, if you ask me.

I think that is an assumption but I think I understand why you are saying that.

If theses weapons were causing harm to Aliens living in another plane of existence wouldn't they have done something about it, wouldn't you think?

That would make sense if "another plane of existence" actually exists and supports life. At this point it is just speculation. I suspect that they may be in another "reality" in the sense that we live another "reality" apart from animal or insect life, although we share the same planet and interact to some degree, our comprehension and perception of reality is quite different.

...Also wouldn't the surviving race of this disaster have gone underground to protect themselves from Fall-out.

That is a possibility but do we have any real evidence of it?

It seems clear to me that the UFO phenomena isn't concerned with communicating with humanity in any real overall sense. Perhaps they have made it known to the military through their interaction with missiles that their nuclear weapons are useless against them but does that indicate any concern for us or the planet? I'm not so sure. However, that really doesn't constitute a willingness or interest in communicating with us. If they wished to communicate with us they most certainly have the means to do so on a global scale and they could certainly communicate something of great significance. Yet ... nothing. The "play nice and don't make a mess" messages of the contactees are sophomoric at best.

I don't think they are here "for us" they are here "for themselves", their motivations and actions are most likely "species-centric" in nature as ours most certainly are. I don't think we'll suss out what those motivations are anymore than we're going to figure out their drive mechanisms and power sources are from the evidence at hand. All we can do is speculate.

 

[Kieran]

I think that is an assumption but I think I understand why you are saying that.



That would make sense if "another plane of existence" actually exists and supports life. At this point it is just speculation. I suspect that they may be in another "reality" in the sense that we live another "reality" apart from animal or insect life, although we share the same planet and interact to some degree, our comprehension and perception of reality is quite different.



That is a possibility but do we have any real evidence of it?

It seems clear to me that the UFO phenomena isn't concerned with communicating with humanity in any real overall sense. Perhaps they have made it known to the military through their interaction with missiles that their nuclear weapons are useless against them but does that indicate any concern for us or the planet? I'm not so sure. However, that really doesn't constitute a willingness or interest in communicating with us. If they wished to communicate with us they most certainly have the means to do so on a global scale and they could certainly communicate something of great significance. Yet ... nothing. The "play nice and don't make a mess" messages of the contactees are sophomoric at best.

I don't think they are here "for us" they are here "for themselves", their motivations and actions are most likely "species-centric" in nature as ours most certainly are. I don't think we'll suss out what those motivations are anymore than we're going to figure out their drive mechanisms and power sources are from the evidence at hand. All we can do is speculate.

You posted >The UFO phenomenon isn't concerned with communicating with humanity in any real overall sense. But why haven't they communicate openly with mankind? Would the faults of Humanity deter such contact from happening. I believe a case can be made for it. Whether we like it or not.

We have to man up or own up to such a Possibility; Any Intelligent race visiting us here from some other place, they would certainly judge, a species by their actions. The fact is, we do kill each other, and there is nothing to stopping us from killing them, after initial contact was made and was done with and was over.

I also think fear would overcome us a population eventually after initial contact. Knowing there is other intelligences out there and we are not the centre of the universe. Well I Believe this would effect this civilization deeply. And my point is> An advanced intelligence living with us on the planet that is hiding underground or in the oceans or inside caves or mountains, or for that fact, if they were living on some other planet in the Solar system.

And i am repeating myself here. They whatever the intelligences is, they would not reveal themselves to a World that has warred with each other in the past, present,and will in the future. This are my feelings on it. Your points are valid too, afterall, we all just speculating here, nobody has an overall prove of anything.

 

[trainedobserver]

Would the faults of Humanity deter such contact from happening. I believe a case can be made for it. Whether we like it or not.

That is a big assumption to make. I'm pretty down on the whole "faults of humanity" business. The whole notion that humanity is somehow "broken" is a falsehood propagated by religion. We are what we are. We are the products of our environment. We can either accept and deal with it or pine after unrealistic expectations we set for ourselves, however we need to understand all of that (those expectations) exists entirely in the human mind/imagination and has no real bearing in reality. If they won't talk to us because we're too nasty a piece of work for them then I cannot see that ever changing. Lions, Tigers, and Bears remain poor conversationalists to this day.

The fact is, we do kill each other, and there is nothing to stopping us from killing them, after initial contact was made and was done with and was over.

Sounds like the natural scheme of things to me. Animals experience emotion, are driven by instinct, and are prone to misunderstanding and confusion. That is just how things operate. So you think these things are god-like beings living a Utopian existence? Why? Because you imagine that would be what an advanced alien civilization would be like? Well if you are thinking god-like aliens are waiting for us to evolve into similar god-like beings who don't smoke, chew, or spit I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I think the true cause of the lack of communication is similar to the reasons why we don't get intelligible messages from jellyfish or carry on meaningful conversations with May-flys.

I also think fear would overcome us a population eventually after initial contact.

I think that depends a great deal on the nature of the contact. The world is "prepped" for alien contact and our expectations have been more or less set. I think what will happen is there will be initial glee over the whole thing by those who don't understand the sociological consequences of such contact. Those who understand the plight of the "discovered" will fear for the survival of our various human cultures. Those who think ET is a Utopian Space Guru of Love will lap it up and form cults and either worship them or whatever their gods might be.

I'm thinking that none of the various theories we have imagined will turn out to be true. It will be stranger than we can imagine if the truth of the matter ever sees the light of day. I have my doubts that it ever will. I think the real problem is that the phenomena is outside of our "design specifications" to fully perceive or comprehend.

 

[Kieran]

That is a big assumption to make. I'm pretty down on the whole "faults of humanity" business. The whole notion that humanity is somehow "broken" is a falsehood propagated by religion. We are what we are. We are the products of our environment. We can either accept and deal with it or pine after unrealistic expectations we set for ourselves, however we need to understand all of that (those expectations) exists entirely in the human mind/imagination and has no real bearing in reality. If they won't talk to us because we're too nasty a piece of work for them then I cannot see that ever changing. Lions, Tigers, and Bears remain poor conversationalists to this day.



Sounds like the natural scheme of things to me. Animals experience emotion, are driven by instinct, and are prone to misunderstanding and confusion. That is just how things operate. So you think these things are god-like beings living a Utopian existence? Why? Because you imagine that would be what an advanced alien civilization would be like? Well if you are thinking god-like aliens are waiting for us to evolve into similar god-like beings who don't smoke, chew, or spit I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I think the true cause of the lack of communication is similar to the reasons why we don't get intelligible messages from jellyfish or carry on meaningful conversations with May-flys.



I think that depends a great deal on the nature of the contact. The world is "prepped" for alien contact and our expectations have been more or less set. I think what will happen is there will be initial glee over the whole thing by those who don't understand the sociological consequences of such contact. Those who understand the plight of the "discovered" will fear for the survival of our various human cultures. Those who think ET is a Utopian Space Guru of Love will lap it up and form cults and either worship them or whatever their gods might be.

I'm thinking that none of the various theories we have imagined will turn out to be true. It will be stranger than we can imagine if the truth of the matter ever sees the light of day. I have my doubts that it ever will. I think the real problem is that the phenomena is outside of our "design specifications" to fully perceive or comprehend.

We are broken, somewhat as a species, like surely here, the existence of Rapists and serial killers, inside a civilized society, is not acceptable,.Shouldn't we want to better or change ourselfs? Even if it does not fit the reality or the Environment we live in. Shouldn't we want to prevent wars and prevent hunger around the World. Everything is preventable with will and motivation. We are a self aware species, afterall, we should realise we do wrong and try to change, even if is just to better ourselfs. Blaming religion is a just a cope out, we can change, who we are, if we want to.

How do we know, there is lack of communication between Aliens and us? You have made assumption an Alien intelligence wouldn't communicate with us, because it be like, us trying to communicate or strike up a conversation with a Cow or Jellyfish. To be honest, i find that assumption puzzling.. Cows and Jellyfish, will never evolve, to become a space faring race ever. Well i don't get it lol >(can a Cow drive a Car) Some animals might survive a climate disaster better than us,but we have unique intelligence to learn and or intelligence is far superior to any known animal on this planet. The fact these beings do for the most part seem humanoid, we are too, they have been reported to have legs a body and a head (with a brain probably) So communication probably is achievable here and can happen, if they are similar to us, in lot of ways.

I don't imagine a God like race or Utopian race, I'm saying a Race from outside or Planet might have lead a different path (without the need for war) There race might be also less tuned to racism or hating, so upon coming upon us, they would observe, but avoid open contact, so to not disturb their ways ( therefore avoiding the clash of cultures) I'm not discounting the possibility of Races similar to us with a similar history coming here, and not giving a damn about us or the planet. But we do have to look at all angles of possibilities here.

 

[trainedobserver]

We are broken, somewhat as a species, like surely here, the existence of Rapists and serial killers, inside a civilized society, is not acceptable,.Shouldn't we want to better or change ourselfs?

There is a huge difference in accepting yourself as you are and trying to grow and improve yourself and considering yourself "broken", "evil", or whatever disparaging comment you want to make and you're looking for the "fix", the "cure", or the "savior". Do you judge any other species of animal life on this planet "broken" as well? I don't. I see a group of animal species that developed in a environment and through an evolutionary process that produces results through life and death competition for resources. We are as the environment and evolution have made us. We can "imagine" and "dream" of other outcomes (space guru love gods) but they are just imaginary. We (life on earth) are animals and plants living on a rock hurtling through space fighting over which part of the rock we get to exploit for our survival. <---end of story, no subtext needed. I find that people have a little trouble accepting that (to me at any rate) pretty obvious reality.

Blaming religion is a just a cope out, we can change, who we are, if we want to.

Sure you can. Good luck with that. Tell me, as you survey the history of the human race do you see any change in the basic motivations that drive human beings to do what they do? For the life of me I cannot. No religion, philosophy, or amount of mental anguish has changed any of that.

Cows and Jellyfish, will never evolve, to become a space faring race ever.

We won't "evolve" to become a space faring race either. What we will do is accumulate enough knowledge that will allow us to do so if we are lucky. If we are unlucky some disaster will erase our accumulated knowledge and put us back in the stone age in a single generation.

I'm saying a Race from outside or Planet might have lead a different path (without the need for war)

We can imagine anything. I can imagine a different path that depends on predication or another whose foundation is a parasitical existence. Does that make them any more likely?

You know the UFO phenomena has been used through the years by various individuals to promote their personal philosophies and ways of life. Thinking that ET will talk to us (or that we will only be "worthy) only after we've "cleaned up our act" or whatever is just another way for people who find human society distasteful to lobby for some sort of change. The very idea that we need to fix ourselves up for some unknown visitor from who knows where is a bit silly don't you think? What if we powder our nose and put on that new dress just to answer the door for tentacled brain suckers who see as a side dish? I think we should answer the door holding an aluminum bat behind our backs and deep suspension in our hearts with the notion we are responsible for the survival of our human family and as such we have to be very careful who we let in.

These are just my opinions of course and I'm likely to change them without much notice.

 

[1stEarthBattalion]

OK if we assume the there is other intelligent life and some of the recorded encounters are to be believed then there is a chance that there are several E.T. groups. Each could have there own agenda some for and some against are well being. Which means we should be extremely careful in how we deal with contact. While I have read good things there are also heaps of atrocious behavior.

1) Crimes have been commited (abduction, mutilation, playing chicken with commercial airliners) and these should be investigated as criminal acts.
2) We should increase our level of surviellance in hot spots in the hope to both deter this activity and reduce our response time.

And if there are aliens taking our body parts I think we should go all will smith on them.

On the other hand if they choose to help us and do not carry out crimes against humanity then we should let them see our kind and caring nature (the 1stEarthBattalion is the way to go) show that we have something good to offer to balance the tech edge they may have ( a fast flying car does not maketh a man but it does pull the chicks).

There could still be a terrestial answer which would be just as mind blowing - underground civilisation, genespliced organisms, directed enery weapons, geothermal power sources, etc

And then there is Mars - whats happening around the moon phobe

Laters truth seekers