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Tommy Allison
Guest
Thanks. Now if I can just get the aliens to quit flying over...
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schticknz
Guest
Just been listening to some bloke (yes I thought he was a bloody idiot) on Binnall of America talking about EVPs. Sorry ... but ... since I first heard one on a flexi-disc which came with a paranormal magazine in the mid 80s (UK people will probably know which one I mean) ... and which freaked me out (I was a bit more sensitive back then) ... I've been less and less, and even more recently, lesserly convinced by them.
In fact I'd go so far as to say "What a load of crap" ...
Anyway ... my question is ... has anyone ... ever recorded an EVP inside a faraday cage (i.e. outside the sphere of electronic influence as it were???) ... or am I being stupid or simplistic or ... something else??? Just yet another in a series of thoughts ...
schtick getting more and more fed up of "hearsay" and "stories" and absolutely noone even trying to get something resembling data of any sort ...
p.s. is it me or is Loren Coleman a bit crap too ????
(let the flame wars begin ... actually you may want to discuss that in the Cryptozoology section )
In fact I'd go so far as to say "What a load of crap" ...
Anyway ... my question is ... has anyone ... ever recorded an EVP inside a faraday cage (i.e. outside the sphere of electronic influence as it were???) ... or am I being stupid or simplistic or ... something else??? Just yet another in a series of thoughts ...
schtick getting more and more fed up of "hearsay" and "stories" and absolutely noone even trying to get something resembling data of any sort ...
p.s. is it me or is Loren Coleman a bit crap too ????
(let the flame wars begin ... actually you may want to discuss that in the Cryptozoology section )I find myself in a bit of a quandary. I never put any stock into ghosts, poltergeists, etc., until I began to suspect that so much of what we can't see, hear or experience in some way could be due to our inability to access different ranges of frequency. Just the argument that radio waves always existed before we could detect and use them, or the argument that we can employ infra-red to detect heat sources, has me reconsidering my nay-saying.
I watched a number of ghost hunters on a link someone recently put here. Think it's called Stage syx or something like that. I didn't bookmark the link, but it was filed under "ghost" or "investigations" and was the second film in a series on the Slater House. Most of the really amateur hunters were boring or laughable except that one investigation was interesting. The rest are all people scaring themselves silly over raindrops or imaginary sounds.
In the Slater house and interesting to me was that the psychics they employed were terrible or probably outright fakes. "Oh, this room makes me feel cold." But the night vision cameras caught a few things I found unexplainable. Just as the psychics were focusing on the feelings they got from another part of the room, an orb passed through the scene to settle right behind one of the psychics. She was doing her schtick on the other part of the room and was suddenly scared out of her mind by something behind her. It was hilarious.
Even more interesting, if it was real, was the EVP they caught on tape. While they kept stressing the staticky and unrecognizable voice phenomenon, a very clear giggle was recorded. I found it eerie and probably the real deal. Maybe I'm nuts, but nearly everything about that investigation seemed to make fools of the investigators, while confirming that something was going on beyond their ability to recognize. The camera person didn't even report one or two of the orbs whizzing around and never reported just where the one orb had flown and seemed to settle, the one that seemed to bedevil the fake psychic.
Yeah, I know. Orbs. I used to pishaw over them too, but this was a motion camera and less likely to be faked. The camera person did announce one of them so it seems to have happened in real time. Yeah, could have been manipulated, I'm sure.
Anyway, I've only had one ghostly encounter and I think we help manufacture those experiences in some way. Maybe we draw them to us, maybe we just create them from our subconscious fodder, or maybe they're the real deal. Don't think I'll ever know, but I now find myself giving the experiences credence simply because we humans understand less about ourselves than we should.
We sit around giving lip service to the horrendous acts humans are capable of. We have such great disdain for charlatans that we cannot get past feeling cheated or angered at them for their stupidity or their manipulative behavior. Somehow I think that gives them more power over us rather than diminishing it, all that focus on the rot we are capable of. Oddly, it makes us more skeptical of the things that used to make us curious.
Somehow, I think we have to use our ability to discern the difference between quackery, fakery, and move on to investigating real phenomenon without all the rancor not only because of the complete waste of time bitching and moaning is, but because we're missing something huge. I've found that my bitching and moaning is a defensive tactic to turn that other, sometimes disturbing, noise off. Anyone else ever felt that? Sometimes I scare myself silly and dig a hole till I can take on the odd again.
I watched a number of ghost hunters on a link someone recently put here. Think it's called Stage syx or something like that. I didn't bookmark the link, but it was filed under "ghost" or "investigations" and was the second film in a series on the Slater House. Most of the really amateur hunters were boring or laughable except that one investigation was interesting. The rest are all people scaring themselves silly over raindrops or imaginary sounds.
In the Slater house and interesting to me was that the psychics they employed were terrible or probably outright fakes. "Oh, this room makes me feel cold." But the night vision cameras caught a few things I found unexplainable. Just as the psychics were focusing on the feelings they got from another part of the room, an orb passed through the scene to settle right behind one of the psychics. She was doing her schtick on the other part of the room and was suddenly scared out of her mind by something behind her. It was hilarious.
Even more interesting, if it was real, was the EVP they caught on tape. While they kept stressing the staticky and unrecognizable voice phenomenon, a very clear giggle was recorded. I found it eerie and probably the real deal. Maybe I'm nuts, but nearly everything about that investigation seemed to make fools of the investigators, while confirming that something was going on beyond their ability to recognize. The camera person didn't even report one or two of the orbs whizzing around and never reported just where the one orb had flown and seemed to settle, the one that seemed to bedevil the fake psychic.
Yeah, I know. Orbs. I used to pishaw over them too, but this was a motion camera and less likely to be faked. The camera person did announce one of them so it seems to have happened in real time. Yeah, could have been manipulated, I'm sure.
Anyway, I've only had one ghostly encounter and I think we help manufacture those experiences in some way. Maybe we draw them to us, maybe we just create them from our subconscious fodder, or maybe they're the real deal. Don't think I'll ever know, but I now find myself giving the experiences credence simply because we humans understand less about ourselves than we should.
We sit around giving lip service to the horrendous acts humans are capable of. We have such great disdain for charlatans that we cannot get past feeling cheated or angered at them for their stupidity or their manipulative behavior. Somehow I think that gives them more power over us rather than diminishing it, all that focus on the rot we are capable of. Oddly, it makes us more skeptical of the things that used to make us curious.
Somehow, I think we have to use our ability to discern the difference between quackery, fakery, and move on to investigating real phenomenon without all the rancor not only because of the complete waste of time bitching and moaning is, but because we're missing something huge. I've found that my bitching and moaning is a defensive tactic to turn that other, sometimes disturbing, noise off. Anyone else ever felt that? Sometimes I scare myself silly and dig a hole till I can take on the odd again.
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schticknz
Guest
Great reply that, Poi. Much less rambling than the ramblings I come up with , anyway.
I have no doubt that there are things beyond our sight. Out of range as it were which sometimes we get an idea of ... somethings we can't explain since we might not have the equipment to get a fix on whatever it is (they may be multi-dimensional and so we see them in odd ways when they impinge on our 3 dimensions).
Its just the EVPs I have problems with. There are sooo many stray communications in our atmosphere, and human beings have such a great way of making the sounds of static, and random patterns of any kind into things we would like to see ... see clouds, fire etc etc etc ... that I think EVPs are for the most part just wishful thinking.
Thats why I mentioned the Faraday Cage idea. If one could set up some EVP recording equipment in an environment that is free of stray communications and electromagnetic influence ... and let it record for a good length of time ... we may have at least part of an answer: whether it be that no EVPs appear at all outside the sphere of electromagnetic influence ... or we have recordings of people trying to get in touch with us from somewhere else.
[Again how do we really know that the people in EVPs are dead and/or talking to us from "the other side", anyway???? Maybe they living in an alternate universe and the sound from their universe is bleeding into ours???? Just thinking of them as talking to us from beyond the grave is so limiting, and frankly not very imaginative]
, anyway.I have no doubt that there are things beyond our sight. Out of range as it were which sometimes we get an idea of ... somethings we can't explain since we might not have the equipment to get a fix on whatever it is (they may be multi-dimensional and so we see them in odd ways when they impinge on our 3 dimensions).
Its just the EVPs I have problems with. There are sooo many stray communications in our atmosphere, and human beings have such a great way of making the sounds of static, and random patterns of any kind into things we would like to see ... see clouds, fire etc etc etc ... that I think EVPs are for the most part just wishful thinking.
Thats why I mentioned the Faraday Cage idea. If one could set up some EVP recording equipment in an environment that is free of stray communications and electromagnetic influence ... and let it record for a good length of time ... we may have at least part of an answer: whether it be that no EVPs appear at all outside the sphere of electromagnetic influence ... or we have recordings of people trying to get in touch with us from somewhere else.
[Again how do we really know that the people in EVPs are dead and/or talking to us from "the other side", anyway???? Maybe they living in an alternate universe and the sound from their universe is bleeding into ours???? Just thinking of them as talking to us from beyond the grave is so limiting, and frankly not very imaginative]
No kidding. That's why I have trouble labeling "ghosts." We name them something to give us a reference, but the act of naming them limits what they can be. Everything goes downhill from there because we box them. We make rules for the box that don't work because the name doesn't work. Lotta tail chasing.
I like the Faraday Cage suggestion. Was it Ingo Swann that was enclosed in such a cage to test his psychic ability? Can't remember, but someone was and there were great results. The Cage didn't limit.
That's why I think there's more to frequency than meets the eye. We just haven't studied it to look for various phenomena.
Had I the moola, I would have a nifty night vision, with infra-red capability (only good for a hundred yards or so, darn it) (or was it 100 feet?), monocular. Even found what I want at Cabella's, but it is, sadly, beyond my reach. Maybe someday.
Anyway, I'm not sure what I think I would find, but I'd sure be looking into a frequency with which I am personally unfamiliar. Hey, has anyone ever taken one of those babies into a Faraday Cage?
auntiegrav
Skilled Investigator
Here's a couple cheaper ones:Poi said:Had I the moola, I would have a nifty night vision, with infra-red capability (only good for a hundred yards or so, darn it) (or was it 100 feet?), monocular. Even found what I want at Cabella's, but it is, sadly, beyond my reach. Maybe someday.
Anyway, I'm not sure what I think I would find, but I'd sure be looking into a frequency with which I am personally unfamiliar. Hey, has anyone ever taken one of those babies into a Faraday Cage?
Heartland America: Product no longer available
Heartland America: Product no longer available
auntiegrav
Skilled Investigator
Poi said:
And if you get tired of hunting ghosts, you can always use it for hunting raccoons....;-)
You're welcome to hunt the little masked chicken murderers on my place...
auntiegrav
Skilled Investigator
I worked with some of the first testing of night vision for Navy pilots. Our best A-6 Intruder pilot came back from his first mission as pale as a ghost (he was African-American). He said every goose and duck and seagull came up out of the trees and hills (low level bombing runs) and scared the crap out of him. He used to be fine flying those missions with the radar, and the birds had always been there, but as long as they were invisible, it didn't matter until you hit one (which he did right after that, not a pretty sight in a jet intake).Poi said:
I wonder how many were just ghosts of birds.....;-) At least that goose wasn't, but it is now.
Don't know which is more incredible, to hear about how a pilot first experienced night vision or how the poor goose met his end. Cool that you were in on the testing though. Did you ever want a scope of some sort yourself?
Although I don't want the monocular for rat sightings, I thought I'd have my spouse look at the neighbor's pine tree the next time drenching rains force the rats out of the bayou to high ground. Gross rat pine city. He'll have him some fine dreams and yes, I know it's wicked.
Now if I can just find me a ghost.
Although I don't want the monocular for rat sightings, I thought I'd have my spouse look at the neighbor's pine tree the next time drenching rains force the rats out of the bayou to high ground. Gross rat pine city. He'll have him some fine dreams and yes, I know it's wicked.
Now if I can just find me a ghost.
auntiegrav
Skilled Investigator
Mostly, I want a scope just for general interest in the night creatures. I don't need one to hunt with (and the Revenuers are too thick these days to get away with it, anyway),Poi said:
but it would be fun to watch even the local stray cats at night. I would like an infrared camera, though, just for science purposes.
Do the gators come around the bottom of the tree once the rats go up it?
If not, maybe you need to get a bag of marshmallows and a PVC blowgun....;-)
Ew, charming thought. LOL
I'm in Houston and, while we have gators, they aren't hanging around our local bayous that much, at least not near my home. Surprisingly, there is a nest of beaver near me. I didn't believe my neighbor until he pointed them out one day. I'd love to get a good look at them with the scope.
I'm in Houston and, while we have gators, they aren't hanging around our local bayous that much, at least not near my home. Surprisingly, there is a nest of beaver near me. I didn't believe my neighbor until he pointed them out one day. I'd love to get a good look at them with the scope.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
I have some major issues with EVPs. We have used low end recording devices and high end devices and the low end seem to get the EVPs. Now, the problem is, these low end recorders aren't actually designed to record effectively unless they are used as dictaphones. Their mics are just aweful and the quality is questionable.
So...the problem is this. We also use the Zoom H4 and professional Tascam digital audio equipment for the TV show and neither have picked up any EVPs. These units are high end and the mics and boom alone have a retail price tag larger than my fortnightly wage.
Here's my take on why I think the low end gear picks up EVP. They are low end which means cheaper manufacturing costs, limited technology, no shielding, cheap parts and low bitrate recording. These devices aren't built for the tasks they're being used for and the low bitrate creates audio distortion. Any audio on these devices is questionable the second you hit record for varied reasons. The audio frequency is limited and I'm assuming selective in many cases due to these devices simply being dictaphones.
In my opinion, the Zoom H4 is an excellent device...but no EVPs to date. We filmed in 13 locations for the show and even the Tascam has no EVPs. Plenty on the low end gear that we use to compare audio with the H4 as an experiment.
Is it just bad luck the high end gear hasn't captured anywthing? Or is EVP simply a complete joke? I have no idea. Since starting in the Paranormal Scene (I won't call it a field because that would make an assumption it has scientific merit...and it doesn't), I have become more and more sceptical about everything. Even the TV shows that promote fallacies and claim scientific method is being used.
I dunno
I guess if you truly want an EVP that will be less questionable, then get yourself a Zoom H4. Even my modded iPod is a better option than a lot of the digital recorders out there.
So...the problem is this. We also use the Zoom H4 and professional Tascam digital audio equipment for the TV show and neither have picked up any EVPs. These units are high end and the mics and boom alone have a retail price tag larger than my fortnightly wage.
Here's my take on why I think the low end gear picks up EVP. They are low end which means cheaper manufacturing costs, limited technology, no shielding, cheap parts and low bitrate recording. These devices aren't built for the tasks they're being used for and the low bitrate creates audio distortion. Any audio on these devices is questionable the second you hit record for varied reasons. The audio frequency is limited and I'm assuming selective in many cases due to these devices simply being dictaphones.
In my opinion, the Zoom H4 is an excellent device...but no EVPs to date. We filmed in 13 locations for the show and even the Tascam has no EVPs. Plenty on the low end gear that we use to compare audio with the H4 as an experiment.
Is it just bad luck the high end gear hasn't captured anywthing? Or is EVP simply a complete joke? I have no idea. Since starting in the Paranormal Scene (I won't call it a field because that would make an assumption it has scientific merit...and it doesn't), I have become more and more sceptical about everything. Even the TV shows that promote fallacies and claim scientific method is being used.
I dunno
I guess if you truly want an EVP that will be less questionable, then get yourself a Zoom H4. Even my modded iPod is a better option than a lot of the digital recorders out there.
interesting stuff,
i downloaded the evpmaker, and i think i have it working right.
i recorded a minute or so of my voice randomly raving about the quality or lack thereof of local tv programing, and then used it as the "carrier" ive asked a few questions, and am getting words back amoung the gobledygook, "its important" i seem to hear on the first, then on the subsequent sessions the words "to talk " and "talking" pop out.
im not convinced its anything but segments of my own voice randomly cobbled into words (or what with the power of suggestion seem like words)at this stage, but ill keep playing with it for a while.
i need to formulate some decent questions now
Ok i had my wife listen to the "words" when she got home from work and she can hear them too including the phrase "i disagree", but in all honesty when i listen to the "carrier" i hear the same phonetic elements and combinations, i imagine had i used a source other than my own voice as the raw data carrier, the effect would not seem so bogus, less recognisable and therefore "spookier".
i dont seem to be getting more than a few random phonetic patterns that seem like words, it doesnt seem like i am getting coherant answers to specific queries.
i downloaded the evpmaker, and i think i have it working right.
i recorded a minute or so of my voice randomly raving about the quality or lack thereof of local tv programing, and then used it as the "carrier" ive asked a few questions, and am getting words back amoung the gobledygook, "its important" i seem to hear on the first, then on the subsequent sessions the words "to talk " and "talking" pop out.
im not convinced its anything but segments of my own voice randomly cobbled into words (or what with the power of suggestion seem like words)at this stage, but ill keep playing with it for a while.
i need to formulate some decent questions now
Ok i had my wife listen to the "words" when she got home from work and she can hear them too including the phrase "i disagree", but in all honesty when i listen to the "carrier" i hear the same phonetic elements and combinations, i imagine had i used a source other than my own voice as the raw data carrier, the effect would not seem so bogus, less recognisable and therefore "spookier".
i dont seem to be getting more than a few random phonetic patterns that seem like words, it doesnt seem like i am getting coherant answers to specific queries.
Jose Collado
Skilled Investigator
I heard about EVP maker a while back. Pretty cool software with some novelty value 
this is now my second day experimenting, prior to this i had read about evp only once before at rense in relation to the lacy pederson murder case. wasnt impressed then, but i decided to give this a try.
ive been listening to other examples of evp and am not impressed, having said that i have gotton some very clear phrases using evp maker, much clearer than any other examples ive found, but again this is using my own voice (garbled by software) as the carrier so i expect the phrases would seem more "natural" to me.
using other carriers such as persian or welsh news has given nothing comparable to my own sample.
ive yet to get any data that convinces me im getting a reply from "somewhere/one", but the process is entertaining enough for me to keep trying.
im going to re record 60 odd seconds of my voice from a script which i will write to include all the phonetic sounds and see if i get more.
as i said so far using my own garbled voice as a carrier has yeilded the best results, im not hearing voices other than my own but im getting clear phrases like "i disagree" and "its important"
ive been listening to other examples of evp and am not impressed, having said that i have gotton some very clear phrases using evp maker, much clearer than any other examples ive found, but again this is using my own voice (garbled by software) as the carrier so i expect the phrases would seem more "natural" to me.
using other carriers such as persian or welsh news has given nothing comparable to my own sample.
ive yet to get any data that convinces me im getting a reply from "somewhere/one", but the process is entertaining enough for me to keep trying.
im going to re record 60 odd seconds of my voice from a script which i will write to include all the phonetic sounds and see if i get more.
as i said so far using my own garbled voice as a carrier has yeilded the best results, im not hearing voices other than my own but im getting clear phrases like "i disagree" and "its important"
ok i think i have the link right etc etc
im interested in the feedback, i hear the words "i disagree" twice and possibly "what ?" (though im discounting single words at this stage of the experiment, including the words yes and no)
the first phrase "i disagree" is at the 0-1 second mark, and the second in deeper "voice" is at 7-8 second mark. the "what ?" is at 6 seconds
the carrier for this was 60 seconds of me ranting in normal voice about local TV programming and its poor quality.
this morning i recorded my voice reading from the dictionarys phonetic list (had to read twice for the recommended 60 secs sample).
the results were similar except i got an "oriental" sounding voice saying
captain scarlet, ninja.
funnily enough ive just bought the dvds for the original puppet show cpt scarlet, and i have studied ninjitsu in my youth, particularly the ninja "magic" aspect, so in this context one "might" say its a specific message.....
anway have a listen to the i disagree wav file, u can use the graphic equaliser in media player to fiddle with it but i can hear it as it plays with default settings
Click here to watch I-disagree-96
im only presenting this as the results of my using the software. im still leaning on the phonetic coincidence theory myself, but im interested in whether others can hear the words so i can classify the segment as per the instructions
my overall impression is like churchills description of golf "a good walk ruined", its been an entertaining usage of time at least
im interested in the feedback, i hear the words "i disagree" twice and possibly "what ?" (though im discounting single words at this stage of the experiment, including the words yes and no)
the first phrase "i disagree" is at the 0-1 second mark, and the second in deeper "voice" is at 7-8 second mark. the "what ?" is at 6 seconds
the carrier for this was 60 seconds of me ranting in normal voice about local TV programming and its poor quality.
this morning i recorded my voice reading from the dictionarys phonetic list (had to read twice for the recommended 60 secs sample).
the results were similar except i got an "oriental" sounding voice saying
captain scarlet, ninja.
funnily enough ive just bought the dvds for the original puppet show cpt scarlet, and i have studied ninjitsu in my youth, particularly the ninja "magic" aspect, so in this context one "might" say its a specific message.....
anway have a listen to the i disagree wav file, u can use the graphic equaliser in media player to fiddle with it but i can hear it as it plays with default settings
Click here to watch I-disagree-96
im only presenting this as the results of my using the software. im still leaning on the phonetic coincidence theory myself, but im interested in whether others can hear the words so i can classify the segment as per the instructions
my overall impression is like churchills description of golf "a good walk ruined", its been an entertaining usage of time at least