exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
Aside from the Falon Gong crappola Trained, don't you think it might have at least a placebo effect?
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External Qi Energy transmission proven by Mayo Clinic -- and its ancient lineage
- Thread starter drew hempel
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Aside from the Falon Gong crappola Trained, don't you think it might have at least a placebo effect?
drew hempel
Skilled Investigator
haha. O.K. let's review the evidence.
1) Mayo Clinic and University of Minnesota Randomized controlled peer-reviewed study proving qigong external chi transmission is real and effective against chronic pain untreatable by Western medicine.
2) A video of John Chang, qigong master, being tested by Western trained scientists from established academic institutions (i.e. the Albert Einstein College of Medicine).... and these Western scientists are being shocked. Literally shocked. Not just emotionally shocked. Obviously being shocked goes beyond "blood flow" or a placebo effect.
3) A local news story confirming a woman is healed of a rare lung disease that the Mayo Clinic stated only a lung transplant would cure. She was on an oxygen tank 24 hours a day and only her qigong treatments stopped it. This isn't just a testimony -- but one confirmed by a local news agency.
4) Another local news story confirming that a boy is healed of an injury -- by his third grader friend. Again not just a testimony but confirmed by a third party, the local news.
5) Two more peer-reviewed randomized controlled studies showing qigong healing is real and better than any control -- so it's better than any placebo.
6) A Harvard medical school study in a peer-reviewed journal showing that qigong transmission heals cancer but doesn't kill normal cells.
7) Hundreds of other studies showing qigong affects gamma rays, slows the decay rate of nuclear fission, and qi energy affects every other type of matter and energy.
8 -- A dozen testimonies of people healed from qigong transmission of Parkinsons Disease, M.S. late-term cancer and more from a qigong master who has a successful healing center in Minnesota that anyone on this forum is welcome to investigate in an attempt to "disprove." Qigong master Chunyi Lin is co-author of a chapter of a Mayo Clinic medical textbook -- co-author with Dr. Nisha Manek. So you're welcome to contact Dr. Nisha Manek of the Mayo Clinic to try to disprove her belief in qigong healing. haha.
Here's Dr. Bill Manahan giving his "testimony" for Spring Forest Qigong
O.K. now on the Full Moon deal. As I've stated my own research has traced the origins of qigong back to the Bushmen Khoisan culture -- the original human culture from 100,000 BCE. That culture would rely on the Full Moon to do their all night trance dance healing sessions. Now why would the Full Moon increase the energy so much? Could it be an electrogravitic effect -- I discuss this in my book -- magnetogravitic fields or gravitomagnetic fields, etc. This is in the realm of experimental physics but it's already been demonstrated and again it's due to nonlinear feedback -- chaotic.
So we can ignore all the evidence I've listed -- that's fine if people want to ignore the evidence. But if a person actually wants to consider the evidence then they might be interested in moving on to consider the possible mechanism for how qigong works. This is what my book explores. Essentially I rely on sonofusion as the model for explanation. Ultrasound cavitation creates a quantum energy that causes transmutation of matter. Sonoluminescence is one example -- it's from a shock wave of sound. So again the energy is based on frequency, not amplitude -- although due to nonlinear feedback amplitude is certainly a factor. But essentially sound can resonate into higher frequencies and then transform into more intense energy -- the ultrasound ionizes the electrochemical energy of the body and when that energy is ionized then it can bypass the blood brain barrier, via the vagus nerve. The electrochemicals then turn into neurotransmitters -- aka neurohormones -- and the increased serotonin and dopamine then increases the melatonin which then increases the DMT of the pineal gland and DMT is the visionary or spirit molecule. From my book:
Then Stuart Hammeroff's model provides a good explanation -- a holographic quantum entanglement. I've corresponded with Hammerof as well regarding the role of ultrasound as his University of Arizona has done a lot of ultrasound brain healing research.
A podcast interview starts at 7 minutes in with Chunyi Lin INTERVIEW WITH CHUNYI LIN 01/17 by Lama Tantrapa | Blog Talk Radio
Here's another podcast interview with qigong teacher professor Chunyi Lin Chunyi Lin Spring Forest Qigong - Writers Voices Podcasts
Here's a podcast 45 minute talk by Chunyi Lin Teachings of Spring Forest Qigong
This is a brand new podcast interview with Chunyi Lin -- PodcastDirectory | Episode: Master Chunyi Lin inside The Conscious Zone - Jun 16,2011 Podcast
Here's a another podcast interview with Chunyi Lin: Energy Talk Radio - Show Recordings - The Sheila Show
Qigong teacher professor Chunyi Lin has several podcasts available for free listening online:
Podcast 189: Spring Forest Qigong with Chunyi Lin | Inside Personal Growth
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
What is your association with Spring Forest Quigong?
Angel of Ioren
Friendly Skeptic
Drew,
Do you have anything to share with this forum apart from promoting your alternative medicine? This is getting ridiculous and I'm having to try really hard not to close this thread.
None of this garbage has been proven to work no matter what useless, self-confirming studies you produce. It isn't anything more than a placebo effect. Show me some double blind test results not carried out by people trying to promote this stuff and we'll talk. As I said in a previous post with the XKCD cartoon - if this stuff actually worked, so called "big pharma" would have monetized it.
---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------
Oh dear, I just found this from one of Drew's previous posts:
Micah Hanks, DMT and spirits - Page 6
He was banned right after that post by David. I guess the ban was lifted (probably automatically).
---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------
Also from that thread, we find how this practice can be dangerous:
http://www.hkjpsych.com/journal_file/0004_Culture_bound 12_14.pdf
---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------
I would have been on top of this sooner, but I've been extremely busy. Sorry about that. Does anyone believe this guy by the way?
Do you have anything to share with this forum apart from promoting your alternative medicine? This is getting ridiculous and I'm having to try really hard not to close this thread.
None of this garbage has been proven to work no matter what useless, self-confirming studies you produce. It isn't anything more than a placebo effect. Show me some double blind test results not carried out by people trying to promote this stuff and we'll talk. As I said in a previous post with the XKCD cartoon - if this stuff actually worked, so called "big pharma" would have monetized it.
---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------
Oh dear, I just found this from one of Drew's previous posts:
Micah Hanks, DMT and spirits - Page 6
He was banned right after that post by David. I guess the ban was lifted (probably automatically).
---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 AM ----------
Also from that thread, we find how this practice can be dangerous:
http://www.hkjpsych.com/journal_file/0004_Culture_bound 12_14.pdf
---------- Post added at 11:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------
I would have been on top of this sooner, but I've been extremely busy. Sorry about that. Does anyone believe this guy by the way?
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Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
Has even one of the 515446 links Drew has supplied ever linked to the Mayo clinic study? If not, Drew lets see the study. Where was it published and what keywords do I type in the Mayo Clinic website to see it?
Hotkafka
Sanity is a default
Drew -it's clear what you're doing here. If you truly are inspired by the teachings and self transformative aspects of Qi Gong, you wouldn't be pressing so hard and would probably be devoting more time to your practice. Stop clogging up our boards.
As for this quote:
I wasn't aware that "self-designing" a degree was an option in academia -besides in the Arts. Perhaps I'm wrong however. Next week I'll approach my adviser with my intent to design a PhD in Marine Mammal parapsychology-see how far flies.
And: David Icke? Really?
Nevermind. I did a little research and indeed this was a Liberal Arts Masters, so... And Angel, just for the sake of due diligence, Drew posted this statement regarding his association with David Icke on ATS:
As for this quote:
I wasn't aware that "self-designing" a degree was an option in academia -besides in the Arts. Perhaps I'm wrong however. Next week I'll approach my adviser with my intent to design a PhD in Marine Mammal parapsychology-see how far flies.
And: David Icke? Really?
Nevermind. I did a little research and indeed this was a Liberal Arts Masters, so... And Angel, just for the sake of due diligence, Drew posted this statement regarding his association with David Icke on ATS:
drew hempel
Skilled Investigator
In 1999 qigong professor teacher Chunyi Lin did a class presentation to one of my graduate degree classes at the University of Minnesota. By that time I had already researched qigong on my own. I first saw qigong master Effie P. Chow in 1995 when she blew the fuse in the room behind us at St. Kates University. Before I attended that event, which I had learned about from a poster, I was so skeptical that I even asked for the price of admission to be reduced. Effie P. Chow reduced my admission price to $10 and at the event I felt very strong magnetic fields between my hands as we made "chi energy balls" and Effie P. Chow projected chi at us.
So then I read Harvard-trained medical doctor David Eisenberg's book on qigong masters -- his website is here Qigong Institute - Home Page His book is Encounters with Qi.
Amazon.com: Encounters with Qi: Exploring Chinese Medicine (9780393312133): David Eisenberg, Thomas Lee Wright: Books
Anyway when Chunyi Lin was scheduled to do his presentation I sat right in front -- the closest to him. I did feel the energy from him and I knew he was the real deal. In fact he had been mentioned to me previously by a friend who had studied with him. I had forgotten about him though since I had already started taking Yan Xin Qigong at the University of Minnesota -- a student club by Chinese students.
So then I signed up for Chunyi Lin's class which was taught through a local community college. During the first class he said he would walk around us and transmit energy to us and we would hear a shaking of the fingers as he walked by us -- that's how he was transmitting the energy. So I was standing with my legs slightly bent -- doing the basic "moving of yin and yang" exercise -- and I had my eyes closed and I heard him walk past and I heard the shaking of the fingers in the air around me.
Suddenly I saw this bright light and my body filled with amazing bliss -- and a sensation of love. When my girlfriend picked me up after class I had to accept that what I experienced was a much deeper love and bliss than I had ever experienced before.
So then I did a self-directed research project through my masters degree -- I was already researching qigong for my masters thesis and so I signed up to take classes from Chunyi Lin for graduate school credit as a class.
At that point I began practicing qigong intensively and also studying all sorts of meditation and nonwestern philosophy books as per my self-directed research -- you can see a list of my references here: What is nonduality, nondualism, Advaita? Part Eight
O.K. so I primarily used the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality as my main text. I practiced the "small universe" exercise intensively along with the standing Tai-Chi exercises.
I describe my training experience in detail in my book -- Chapter Five.
By the end of 2000 I had permanently transformed my brain -- not only that but I had done healing on other people -- and I also saw dead spirits -- I also had telepathy, telekinesis and precognition. I even accidentally pulled this old lady's spirit right out of her body -- by accident. She was bawling for 15 minutes straight but she knew I had good intentions. I had just forgotten that you're not supposed to pull energy blockages directly out of top of the center of someone's skull -- all this was without touching anyone.
For my training I went on a no salt diet, as detailed in "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" -- and I was vegan -- and then I did a final fasting on just a half glass of water for 8 days non-stop meditation -- during this time the electromagnetic fields were strongest in my body. Finally I experienced a spacetime vortex that occurs right before real astral travel.
The energy around me was too intense so I stopped practicing intensely and I began to do more research. At this time I discovered Master Nan, Huai-chin's books that are now out of print but you can find the newest book Measuring Meditation -- a 900 page book at Meditation techniques and guided lessons that teach you how to meditate
So before my energy channels closed up Chunyi Lin said I had an "enlightenment experience" and then he touched his finger to my forehead and he shot this laser shen energy into the center of my brain which created a permanent magnetic bliss in the center of my brain.
So then I stopped training totally for a couple months because I wanted to see if the magnetic bliss would go away. It didn't go away. That was 10 years ago and then I had received my masters degree but I realized I needed to translate my experience and discovery back into Western science as best as possible.
So I spent that last 10 years reading one scholarly book a day on average while sitting in full lotus for several hours a day. The full lotus third eye training enabled me to exorcise my body and mind of the lower emotional blockages so my mind had better energy to take in new information. During this time I continued to do electromagnetic pineal gland energy transmissions and recorded my experiences.
I also kept taking the Spring Forest Qigong classes on occasion but now that I was graduated I was only working a part-time job and I no longer had a car so I didn't have the finances for the classes. The last class I took was six years ago and I haven't had any direct contact with Spring Forest Qigong since then, although I did call to possibly get a phone healing but I didn't actually get one.
From my online research I began to make contact with people from all over the world who were interested in my research so several people interviewed me and posted the interviews online and then several people began reading my research regularly online as well through my blog Natural Resonance Revolution
---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------
Qigong has a documented history going back over 3,000 years and it is a mystery. This forum is titled "Ancient Mysteries." My argument is that qigong comes from the Bushmen Khoisan culture -- the original humans -- going back to 100,000 BCE. As I stated the N/om energy of the Bushmen is the same as the kundalini energy of India and the jing energy of China.
So I'm just sharing this ancient mystery on the ancient mystery forum. Since it's a forum then obviously it's subject to debate and criticism and the continued posting of links to be considered as per the means of the internet, etc.
As for "double blind" standards versus the "randomized controlled" standard -- one blind -- the basis for qigong is the philosphy of nondual consciousness which means a "double blind" can not be applied by definition.
For example as causation of the energy transference -- was it telepathy? Did the person have precognition? In other words if the original source of the energy can not be "contained" and measured then it can not be subjected to a "double blind" standard. On the other hand a randomized controlled standard is considered sufficient for Western medical research. Randomized, controlled designs: The for knowing what works — Evidence Based Living
So I've posted three randomized controlled qigong studies on this thread -- so qigong has been proven by Western science and qigong efficacy has been replicated by Western science.
You might want to enquire with Dr. Nisha Manek at the Mayo Clinic if you have further questions about applying "double blind" to energy medicine based on the concept of consciousness. haha. There is some excellent research in this arena by philosophy of science professor H.M. Collins, as I discuss in my book.
---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------
If you look at the original post I made on the thread it gives the actual peer-reviewed journal that the Mayo Clinic research was published in. You'd have to access a database that has a subscription to the journal to read the full study online -- at a local college or university for example. Science Citation Index would probably have it. A local public library might have access to it but it is less likely.
---------- Post added at 08:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------
Yeah my masters thesis was published a couple places online -- the HiddenMysteries online magazine had the same webmaster as David Icke's website --and also the volunteer webmaster for Ken Wilber published my masters thesis. I critiqued Ken Wilber in my masters thesis and I was attempting to contact him to get his feedback and so his webmaster published my masters thesis instead. Then someone put my masters thesis on scribd -- you can read it here: Epicenters of Justice
Here's some self-designed Ph.Ds for you Self-designed -- interdisciplinary so I would assume that includes the natural sciences as well -- not just social sciences. Yep -- UMKC School of Graduate Studies Includes biochemistry, etc.
Hotkafka
Sanity is a default
Apparently Qi Gong hasn't trained you in the subtleties of human communication -i.e. understanding when you're overstepping boundaries and over-staying your welcome here. But on the flip side, Qi Gong has done a bang up job at forging your obliviousness -especially on prepaing you to outright ignore messages like the one that seems to be the general consensus of the forum members here, "bugger off." I mean come on, you're quoting reactions from the forum members here on your website!? From an outside observer, it could look like this is a deliberate attempt to provoke and upsell your speil.
And how pathetic is it name dropping Ken Wilber and David Icke's Webmaster? -as if publishing on their Webmaster's sites in any way associates you with their work or validates you by default. In my book, that desperate little move puts you in a category all alone.
drew hempel
Skilled Investigator
Well thanks for checking out my blog. Yeah I get over 300 hits a day from all over the world -- so it's decent for a "micro blog." haha.
The name dropping charge is hilarious. As I wrote -- I was critiquing Ken Wilber in my masters thesis, not agreeing with Ken Wilber. I've critiqued David Icke as well (which, of course, isn't difficult to do). haha. I did have a nice connection via Icke's website though -- Cy Grant corresponded with me and then he wrote a column on his website that is a great summary of my own research as well. MUSIC OF THE SPHERES : The Cy Grant Website So yeah I'm proud to share agreement with Cy Grant -- better known in the U.K. from where he's from. Yeah Cy Grant actually quotes alot of the same sources I used in my masters thesis and he told me he really enjoyed my masters thesis.
So Cy Grant is reiterating the nonwestern music harmonics as the underlying commonality to the ancient mystery of energy healing and consciousness.
It is ironic that the topic of my thread is clearly in the subject of this forum -- ancient mysteries -- and while the members of the paracast forum who have replied have largely not addressed the content of my thread they have attempted to remove the topic as a whole. Of course there was one person who said he was going to look into the subject of qigong in more depth which is why I provided more links. So I do appreciate that encouragement in the subject matter.
In my initial post of this thread I didn't limit myself to qigong but used it as a gateway to the ancient mystery of the Bushmen healing culture -- again with the common model of complementary opposite resonance modeled by nonwestern music.
Hotkafka
Sanity is a default
I apologize. Maybe I'm not resonating with the proper harmonic or I'm being jammed by psychic Reptilians. I guess I wasn't able to comprehend the totality of all that was implied in this statement:
Apparently you weren't name dropping here, just setting the reader up for the caliber of genius they are dealing with. Haha.
I can't imagine why Ken Wilber would opt not to reply to your work, especially after completely misinterpreting the trajectory of his work and calling him a racist?! Perhaps we need to go back to the vaults for this. Here's your words, and I especially like the nod to the community of Freemasons living in underground cities...
Perhaps if Wilber could only rework Spiral Dynamics to include a Fade to Black category, which would include a second tier meme to account for catacomb dwelling Freemasons and Reptilian interventions. Haha.
David Icke, on the other hand, seems he should be more your speed. Haha.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Yes, and when placebo effect meets genuine chronic illness, like Multiple Sclerosis, the relapse is eventual.
exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
(Trained, this isn't for you in particular, your comment just got me started on a ramble)
Well, I don't know about chronic illnesses like MS, but maybe for less severe problems?
Look I don't know about this stuff, but I do want to know about it so I can make my own mind up about it.
I mean, this is a paranormal website forum! What better way to find out the truth than to actually investigate what Drew is telling us????
I know Qi Gong and all that has a bad rap in the skeptics circles, and maybe that's deserved.
But maybe it isn't. I just don't know.......BUT I want to find out.
Is that not what this site is all about????????????
I don't mean we should lose our critical thinking skills! But isn't knowledge about something power over that something? Isn't intelligent, rational investigation of facts better than just giving Drew the bums rush and shoving him out the door and locking it?
And I'm not saying let up on him either!
Just please don't kill this thread.......I think doing that would defeat the purpose of this entire site,.....don't you?
drew hempel
Skilled Investigator
Here's another center of placebo training -- -oops I mean a qigong hospital in China. http://www.chilel.com/WhatIsChilelQigong/hospital.htm
Now consider this video
Since it theoretically can be faked then it is fake according to "skeptic" logic. haha. Showing how something can be faked doesn't mean it is fake but showing incorrect logic does demonstrate an inability to understand qigong healing energy! haha.
So no more worries -- the scam has been shut down. More details on the shut down: Zhineng Qigong, Chigong, Chi Kung
More details on their healing results: Zhineng Qigong: a healing art and science for the 21st century
Here's their current website http://alqic.com/
More fake instant healing. Good paid actors though.
Now consider this video
Since it theoretically can be faked then it is fake according to "skeptic" logic. haha. Showing how something can be faked doesn't mean it is fake but showing incorrect logic does demonstrate an inability to understand qigong healing energy! haha.
So no more worries -- the scam has been shut down. More details on the shut down: Zhineng Qigong, Chigong, Chi Kung
More details on their healing results: Zhineng Qigong: a healing art and science for the 21st century
Here's their current website http://alqic.com/
More fake instant healing. Good paid actors though.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
I have had about enough of this obvious pandering. This thread is done. Drew, your next posts had better be free from this spam like propaganda or I will recommend your banishment.
exo_doc, if you want to learn more I suggest you PM Drew.
exo_doc, if you want to learn more I suggest you PM Drew.
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