February 1, 2015 — Burnt State

[DissectionStalker]

Treat the present as overdetermined – in other words it's determined from the past - adopting Guillemant's ideas that our intentions cause effects in the future that become the future causes of present effects

I see this as a fractal and/or holographic concept. What happens in the present now now now spreads out the signal from here, so its signal is very strong in the now that spreads its fractal holographic waves into the future. But the past is a backwash wave that prevents the present from altering it. I guess this concept allows for infinite possibilities in the present that were shaped by the past and can change the future. We're locked inside the whole matrix at our now points, but were inside all of space-time too where there is no past, present, and future. But our now-points are quantum based too, so we might be everything inside and infinity blinking on and off everywhere. We just can't see that with our minds filtering our now points here, and maybe DMT can break through to other realms that tune the mind to these other existences too.

 

[LatentCauses]

maybe DMT can break through to other realms that tune the mind to these other existences too.

hope so

 

[Burnt State]

You know Burnt everytime I slip back to the same sentiment, and I do frequently being a Vallee, Keel et al fan boy, I think about Japan Airlines flight 1628 over Alaska in 1986 and their encounter with the battleship sized craft out the cockpit window. And I think about the pilot and co-pilot corroboration, cockpit transcript available for all to read and the radar traces captured in Alaska, and that brave JAL pilot who got punished with a desk job for 6 months for refusing to recant his version.

And I say whatever it is, it may as well be "aliens from other planets in real hardware are visiting us leaving trace evidence and engaging our radar" because every other aspect of it is equivalent. So if it its equivalent, why the dichotomoy between nuts and bolts on the one hand and imaginal on the other? Isnt it both - simultaneously.

And here's a couple of things to help out with these problems: our perceptions of reality, physiologically are discontinuous, and so we still are the one writing the narrative using the shaky evidence of our visual perceptions and radar traces. If we can, with our emotions and thinking processes affect the number generators, then we can also affect other hardware systems as well quite possibly. While both these cases have these stunning visual effects they still are effects perceived by humans, and a limited amount of them. I'm not saying that there's nothing there. There is something there, but we're the ones that label it as a UFO giant mother ship or a chandelier of lights etc. because that's our interpretation of events. Collecting this experiences under a UFO umbrella is just the current narrative we are working with as a society.

 

[Burnt State]

Burnt can a well read guy like yourself tell me why it is that Dr Karla Turner, and her three books, are all but forgotten in this field of abduction research?

Turner is the original UFO mystic, (no offense intended to @spacebrother who has dibs on that title). When you read her books and listen to the passionate urgency and conviction in her voice I think the only way to integrate her approach and ideas is to recognize the absolute manic nature of her thoughts fist and foremost. She is speaking in tongues. She has been touched, and I think was dwelling in a very complicated mental space that makes most people uncomfortable.

If, as Duensing says, people fear complexity and uncertainty, then Turner is the ambassador of such fearful complexities. Her anti-structure narrative makes claims no one wants to accept. She also never had the time while alive to push and popularize her narrative inside of UFO discourse. She's a woman and that stands against her in an era of men clearly defining a patriarchal field of discourse. For all those reasons she remains a marginal voice in a fringe field.

 

[Soupie]

And then there's that whole other wacky idea that aliens from other planets in real hardware are visiting us leaving trace evidence and engaging our radar.

Scientists predict Earth-like planets around most stars | ANU

"Planetary scientists have calculated that there are hundreds of billions of Earth-like planets in our galaxy which might support life.

The new research, led by PhD student Tim Bovaird and Associate Professor Charley Lineweaver from The Australian National University (ANU), made the finding by applying a 200 year old idea to the thousands of exo-planets discovered by the Kepler space telescope.

They found the standard star has about two planets in the so-called goldilocks zone, the distance from the star where liquid water, crucial for life, can exist.

“The ingredients for life are plentiful, and we now know that habitable environments are plentiful,” said Associate Professor Lineweaver, from the ANU Research School of Astronomy and Astrophysics and the Research School of Earth Sciences.

“However, the universe is not teeming with aliens with human-like intelligence that can build radio telescopes and space ships. Otherwise we would have seen or heard from them. ..."
​

I love when scientists use that last line! It's really a shame that no pilots, police officers, nor military personnel have never ever reported seeing or interacting with a UAP...

If Vallee et al are correct that spacetime is an illusion, then an intelligence which can transcend this illusion might be able to "travel" at will throughout "space and time." What subjective experience might a human have upon seeing/perceiving an entity/object not bound by our illusion of spacetime? High strange effects anyone?

 

[Burnt State]

If Vallee et al are correct that spacetime is an illusion, then an intelligence which can transcend this illusion might be able to "travel" at will throughout "space and time." What subjective experience might a human have upon seeing/perceiving an entity/object not bound by our illusion of spacetime? High strange effects anyone?

Even though space time may be an illusion and ideas of past, present and future may coexist in paradigms we are not quite prepared to accept, everything may still be subject to entropy and might this still not interfere with space travel? Even in Vallée's conceptions regarding time, matter, energy and information there still is room for the likelihood of earth being visited by other species to be absolutely nil.

I think we need to study the observer more, as Duensing suggests, because the observer can not be separated from the observed and we can study their context (past), their processes (present) and the effects (future). I suspect we may come to recognize that the manner in which we historically and biologically understand reality through patterns and metaphor may hold real, graspable answers to our conundrums of paranormality.

 

[Constance]

Well said Soupie _ I'd add that letting more information through the brain as reducing valve is shaping up as a commonality in a few of these research areas.

I didn't see remote viewing mentioned in the abstract to the paper Burnt linked, which I look forward to reading. RV should be included in our discussion I think. Notably, remote viewers do begin with intentional efforts to clear their consciousnesses/minds of immediate experience and concerns enabling them to often achieve incredible levels of clairvoyance. Many mediums have done this as well, placing themselves into 'trance' states in which they have been receptive to communications (including imagery) from discarnate consciousnesses. It's possible that remote viewers and mediums have thereby somehow triggered the release of DMT in their own brains and bodies to enhance their capacities to see and hear beyond the limitations of the kind of information to which we are all normally attuned in our local environments. I wonder if there is some way in which that hypothesis could be scientifically tested.

 

[Constance]

“However, the universe is not teeming with aliens with human-like intelligence that can build radio telescopes and space ships. Otherwise we would have seen or heard from them. ..."

I love when scientists use that last line! It's really a shame that no pilots, police officers, nor military personnel have never ever reported seeing or interacting with a UAP...

? But they have. The ufo literature is filled with such reports.

If Vallee et al are correct that spacetime is an illusion, then an intelligence which can transcend this illusion might be able to "travel" at will throughout "space and time." What subjective experience might a human have upon seeing/perceiving an entity/object not bound by our illusion of spacetime? High strange effects

Perhaps it's not the case that spacetime is an 'illusion' but that locality is the illusion that dominates 'normal' consciousness. This hypothesis is the foundation of quantum consciousness theories and in particular the hypothesis that quantum information is interconnected in a universal hologram in which we are all connected and to which we all contribute.

 

[Constance]

And here's a couple of things to help out with these problems: our perceptions of reality, physiologically are discontinuous and so we still are the onw writing the narrative using the shaky evidence of our visual perceptions and radar traces. If we can, with our emotions and thinking processes affect the number generators, then we can also affect other hardware systems as well quite possibly. While both these cases have these stunning visual effects they still are effects perceived by humans, and a limited amount of them. I'm not saying that there's nothing there. There is something there but we're the ones that label it as a UFO giant mother ship or a chandelier of lights etc. because that's our interpretation of events. Collecting this experiences under a UFO umbrella is just the current narrative we are working with as a society.

Perhaps the reason why some people in a given immediate location see ufos and others present do not has to do with the degree to which DMT molecules are active in individual brains. It could also be that the entities connected with ufos possess such developed psi abilities that they are able to zone in toward such individuals on earth, appearing on the ground to people who are capable of understanding their telepathic communications and reporting to the rest of us about them. Children are as a whole more 'open' than adults to that which seems to exist beyond the boundaries of interpretation that characterize adult expectations and thinking; perhaps this is why ufo encounters such as the one in Zimbabwe and in other schoolyards in other countries have been chosen by some ufo occupants.

 

[Constance]

@Soupie wrote:

"Constance said: ↑
It does seem to me that these apparently powerful substances must be significantly responsible for the types of human experiences that result, and that these experiences are significantly different from, e.g., NDE's and deep meditative states, which @Soupie included in his speculations."

As we don't have an explanatory model for consciousness in general, and altered states in particular, I think we need to remain open to the idea that they may have more similarities than differences. For instance, you suggest that deep meditative states are significantly different than altered states caused via hallucinogens, but they indeed may not be significantly different.

Soupie, this is why in the C&P thread we sought to bring paranormal experiences of all kinds into the exploration of the nature of consciousness. Several of us argued that the subconscious mind must also be explored to account for what consciousness seems to be capable of achieving in terms of information available from nonlocal sources. See again the twelve pages from Kelly and Kelly concerning the subjects explored in Irreducible Mind: A Psychology for the Twenty-First Century posted by Steve early in Part III of the thread.

 

[Wade]

That's a real neat assessment Constance but was there not adults at both the Voronezh and Ariel school yard sightings ?

It could be that the expiereince is so overwhelming that in many cases it defies explanation but i wonder if maybe it shows itself mainly to people ( be it children or adults) who are least likely to be able articulate it. If so it could be yet another sign that the phenomena exists only to screw with us.

 

[Soupie]

Perhaps it's not the case that spacetime is an 'illusion' but that locality is the illusion that dominates 'normal' consciousness. This hypothesis is the foundation of quantum consciousness theories and in particular the hypothesis that quantum information is interconnected in a universal hologram in which we are all connected and to which we all contribute.

They might be the same—or related—illusions.

It seems that multiple lines of inquiry—scientific, philosophic, and spiritual—lead to the idea that what we typically perceive to be three dimensional space, forward flowing time, and discrete, static objects within it—that is, normal reality—may actually be a veener which we—consciously and unconsciously—project onto a dynamic, interconnected process unbound by our human constructs of space and time.

How the phenomena of consciousness, the paranormal, and UFO experiences emerge from this process we are just at the beginning stages of discovering.

 

[Constance]

That's a real neat assessment Constance but was there not adults at both the Voronezh and Ariel school yard sightings ?

It could be that the expiereince is so overwhelming that in many cases it defies explanation but i wonder if maybe it shows itself mainly to people ( be it children or adults) who are least likely to be able articulate it. If so it could be yet another sign that the phenomena exists only to screw with us.

Actually, the children in both these cases were very articulate in their reports of what they saw (and precise in their drawings of it) and also specific in cases in which they understood what the alien expressed telepathically.

As I recall, teachers were not present on the playground at Zimbabwe, at least near the area in which the landing took place.

As you can probably gather from most of what I write here, I do not believe that "the phenomenon" is "screwing with us." There are other ways to explain the irrational responses of humans to encounters with ufos and aliens. Also, I do not think there is such a thing as a 'single, unified phenomenon' that can account for all the varieties of paranormal, psychic, mystical, and spiritual experiences had by humans throughout our recorded history. I think it's a mistake to gather all of these types of experience into a single category and attempt to explain them in terms of a single intentional phenomenon.

 

[Constance]

They might be the same—or related—illusions.

To the extent that considerable numbers of people report similar experiences within each separable category of paranormal experience, I do not think we can justifiably refer to everything that is described in terms of "illusions." What makes NDEs different from UFO/alien encounters? And what is held in common in the experiences reported in those different categories of experience? These are surely matters we should be considering in our attempts to understand these experiences.

 

[Constance]

How the phenomena of consciousness, the paranormal, and UFO experiences emerge from this process we are just at the beginning stages of discovering.

Exactly. But what 'process' are you referring to? Do we understand how consciousness 'processes' all that conscious beings experience? Can we reduce it to a single 'process'? If we attempt to do so based on our currently limited understanding of consciousness and mind are we not at risk of neutralizing and oversimplifying the range of paranormal and psychic, mystical and spiritual, experiences that constitutes the material we have to work with in the first place?

 

[Wade]

Actually, the children in both these cases were very articulate in their reports of what they saw (and precise in their drawings of it) and also specific in cases in which they understood what the alien expressed telepathically.

As I recall, teachers were not present on the playground at Zimbabwe, at least near the area in which the landing took place.

As you can probably gather from most of what I write here, I do not believe that "the phenomenon" is "screwing with us." There are other ways to explain the irrational responses of humans to encounters with ufos and aliens. Also, I do not think there is such a thing as a 'single, unified phenomenon' that can account for all the varieties of paranormal, psychic, mystical, and spiritual experiences had by humans throughout our recorded history. I think it's a mistake to gather all of these types of experience into a single category and attempt to explain them in terms of a single intentional phenomenon.

articulate was a poor choice of words on my part


Yeah articulate was probably a poor choice of words as probably anyone can describe or even draw something. I think a better choice of words which i was suggesting was that it would pick out people who are in a position to not appreciate and absorb the event and take it to the next level and be able to discuss it here.

I'm not referring to any strange lights or nuts and bus sightings but one in which there is contact or dialog because admonishment about earth stewardship aside as latent causes pointed out earlier many contacts have a non - sequitur air about them. Regardless there is a trickster element in many cases they rarely progress into anything deeper and result in little. If as fort believed we are property we are also likely to be playthings.

 

[Soupie]

To the extent that considerable numbers of people report similar experiences within each separable category of paranormal experience, I do not think we can justifiably refer to everything that is described in terms of "illusions." What makes NDEs different from UFO/alien encounters? And what is held in common in the experiences reported in those different categories of experience? These are surely matters we should be considering in our attempts to understand these experiences.

In stating that the illusions may be the same/related, I was referring to the phenomenon of non-locality and of Vallee's suggestion that spacetime is a human construct. Non-local effects do seem to transcend space and time as they are normally conceived.

Exactly. But what 'process' are you referring to?

The process of evolving, unfolding reality.

 

[Constance]

In stating that the illusions may be the same/related, I was referring to the phenomenon of non-locality and of Vallee's suggestion that spacetime is a human construct. Non-local effects do seem to transcend space and time as they are normally conceived.

The process of evolving, unfolding reality.

Do you still think information theory can account for consciousness, and if so how?

 

[Soupie]

Even though space time may be an illusion and ideas of past, present and future may coexist in paradigms we are not quite prepared to accept, everything may still be subject to entropy and might this still not interfere with space travel? Even in Vallée's conceptions regarding time, matter, energy and information there still is room for the likelihood of earth being visited by other species to be absolutely nil.

If 3D space is an illusion, then travelling "through" it may be an illusion as well.

I posted a thread a while back about a "reflection" model of some UFO experiences. If the universe as we experience it is actually a hologram of a more densely organized/interconnected information structure, then "travelling" from point A to point B in space and time as we conceive them may unnecessary.

Re reflection theory: imagine sitting on a couch projecting reflections onto a wall from two mirrors one is holding in the hands. On the wall, the reflections seem very far apart and possess amazing capabilities of movement, etc. But in "reality" their sources are very close together in space (albeit a different space) and have mundane movements.

That is just a metaphor, of course.

 

[Soupie]

Do you still think information theory can account for consciousness, and if so how?

Yes, I do.

Vallee (and others) say that energy and information are two sides of the same coin. Simplistically, I think our bodies/brains are the energy side of the coin and our minds are the information side of the coin.