February 14, 2016 — Whitley Strieber

[Gene Steinberg]

Yep, a show booker. We hit the big time!

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Hey Honey! Help us land Michio or maybe Uri Milner... Or Elon or Dean Radin or Joe Rogan etc

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Or maybe a roundtable seance' w/ psychics attempting to contact Houdini or JRobert Houdin, or perhaps JB Rhine & William Roll? Or at least get some 'class A' EVPs recorded Live in the Paracast studios.

 

[mike]

As long as it isn't Uri Geller, that bastard refuses to compensate me for a kitchen drawer full of bent and useless cutlery

 

[Liminalist]

Thats text book denialism

Denial is different. It is the automatic gainsaying of a claim regardless of the evidence for it – sometimes even in the teeth of evidence. Denialism is typically driven by ideology or religious belief, where the commitment to the belief takes precedence over the evidence. Belief comes first, reasons for belief follow, and those reasons are winnowed to ensure that the belief survives intact

In trying to paint the example of a nuts and bolts advanced non human factor as "magical" you are winnowing the data to fit your position.

Are some of the examples within this genre explainable in prosaic terrestrial terms ? absolutely. are they all able to be resolved this way ? Not so far.
There are countless cases that are beyond simple explanation

I didn't say anything abut prosaic or simple explanations. I said that you were grasping at straws by trying to suggest that advanced nonhuman beings were orchestrating our interest in human groups manipulating our perceptions (including those of advanced nonhuman beings) as some sort of softening process. This seems like an empty circle of an argument to me. You can claim it is the Easter Bunny if you like, but if you want to talk about advanced nonhuman beings then the onus is on you to present the evidence for such, since the existence of these beings is very much in question, where the existence of human groups and individuals creating theories and models and memes about the same, over the centuries, is a matter of public record.

For the record, I am not denying the existence of nonhuman intelligences (faery, etc), & I personally think there is such a thing, and ditto with so-called paranormal events. There's no doubt to me that there are factors beyond the ken of conventional science. But the sort of new age pseudo science being pushed by Kripal and Strieber is just an updated version of the sort of snake oil being sold a century ago by Blavastky and Crowley and Gurdjieff. Meanwhile psychology, which is not conventional science, is in general disrepute in 2016 and the psyche is only marginally better understood than the soul. What I wrote before was not denial, textbook or otherwise. It was logic. Positing advanced nonhuman beings may help explain inexplicable events, but that does not mean it is a necessary explanation, only a convenient one. It is also not really an explanation, at all, since nothing can be said about such beings outside of the evidence which we are trying to explain by hypothesizing them. As I say, it is circular logic.

 

[mike]

Everything you ever wanted to know about alien anal probes

The interesting thing is that Barney Hill actually did claim to be anally probed, but because that claim was not included in The Interrupted Journey (1965), the account by John G. Fuller of the hypnotic regression he performed on the Hills, this claim was not generally known until a 1965 report by NICAP investigator Walter Webb was popularized much later. In that report, Webb stated that during the hypnotic regression, Barney Hill stated that “A cylindrical object was inserted up the rectum, and once again the witness believed something was extracted.” Fuller left this out of the book, along with a claim by Hill that a cup was used to extract sperm.

Who Was the First Person to Receive an Alien Anal Probe?

Everytime I see this at my vets I lol

 

[mike]

For the record, I am not denying the existence of nonhuman intelligences (faery, etc), & I personally think there is such a thing

That's fine, personally I think the best hypothesis for many of the cases including the Gosford case is the ETH.

Im confident the Police were not chasing faerys

Milage will vary

 

[Honey-Pot]

Obviously you haven't listened to many of the shows or bothered to look up the names you didn't recognize.

I've listened to the entire Paracast library of guests, so I do speak from that experience knowing it is very repetitive after 10+ years of listening to all the same ol well known and/or controversial insiders within the UFO community.

That's why I also posted this:

The Paracast does have a 10 year library of interviews, and many of these are excellent to listen to. The problem now is that it is becoming too repetitive by recycling the same/similar topics with the same insider people with the same explanations and controversy or opposing viewpoints. It becomes too repetitive once you have the basics.

New blood is desperately needed...

What "outside the box" Paracast UFO related Guests are outsiders looking in that you have had on the Paracast in the last two years or will soon have within the next year or so???

 

[Honey-Pot]

The problem with hypnotic regression is it is proven to falsify and/or change the original memories to the point of not being accurate or truthful to the original event. New human caused screen memories overlay the original memory that have nothing to do with ET doing it.

In the last 15+ years this new memory science has been studied multiple times with independent studies. In fact, I plan to start a thread topic about this, because I'm certain that even the Harvard Mack (now deceased) would be very cautious 'now' about validating such memories of Alien abductions as external events accurately remembered. As if these were real world events beyond what "the experiencer" had within their mind's eye convinced it's ET. It is ET that is a memory placeholder for something else happening even if it was provoked by some external event.

NOVA Online/Kidnapped by UFOs/John Mack

Just torrent or go to PBS to watch Nova's Memory Hackers... then just imagine what the MK Ultra type black ops have known since at least the 1950's. It's definitely very very freaky and a mind frack just how incredibly dangerous this capability might already be for decades now.

Memory Hackers

 

[Liminalist]

Everything you ever wanted to know about alien anal probes

The interesting thing is that Barney Hill actually did claim to be anally probed, but because that claim was not included in The Interrupted Journey (1965), the account by John G. Fuller of the hypnotic regression he performed on the Hills, this claim was not generally known until a 1965 report by NICAP investigator Walter Webb was popularized much later. In that report, Webb stated that during the hypnotic regression, Barney Hill stated that “A cylindrical object was inserted up the rectum, and once again the witness believed something was extracted.” Fuller left this out of the book, along with a claim by Hill that a cup was used to extract sperm.

From Prisoner of Infinity chap 6, "Martian Dreams":

Strieber makes the connection between the rectal probe of 1985 and the semen-extraction process, referring to the procedure known as “rectal electro-ejaculation” (REE), which has been used on humans since 1948.[1] For whatever reason, as far as I know he hasn’t referred to this connection since, nor has he addressed the question of why beings able to enter into (and/or emerge out of) the depths of his psyche would need such archaic technology to bring him to orgasm.

[1] “Rectal electroejaculation (REE), also called electroejaculation (EEJ) is a process designed to help retrieve viable sperm from a man who otherwise has difficulty producing it. Used since 1948, this infertility treatment helps to stimulate a man to release ejaculate. Rectal electroejaculation uses a probe attached to an electric current to induce erection and ejaculation. Once ejaculate is released, it is then collected and prepared for use in artificial insemination.” http://www.fertilityfactor.com/infertility_ree.html

 

[Burnt State]

Finally a lively thread...

The show recently has had a string of interesting guests with some unique theories; for example, Ouelett, Kirby Surprise, RPJ, Cutchin, Bishop, Eric Wargo all presented off centred ways of knowing the phenomena. While there are familiar ideas and discussions that circulate throughout Ufology, trying to find reasonable and measured discussion, no matter how innovative, is not always easy. But these have been interesting enough to draw me back.

Strieber presents a familiar ufological tale: that of the contactee prophet (some might say profit) who has an exceptional narrative of personal contact, compelling enough to make movies and stir up action on the show threads after a lengthy dormant period. There's nothing new with his own narrative involving invented magical beings. In fact he's made his own Kripalian Scriptures, including how he was marked early on in childhood and now travels a mystical path. Enter the magician and watch him him pull a grey out of his hat. He certainly wasn't very coherent about his experiences but he represents a very large and consistent chunk of the traditional Ufo contactee story.

Kripal isn't all that sketchy imho, just an interpreter of unique experiences and fairly wise when it comes to the historic sex stuff and the land of impossible coincidences. Those authors of the impossible may also be managing perceptions and if he continues to market the storyteller as opposed to signifiant & factual cultural events then that would be too bad.

 

[mike]

New human caused screen memories overlay the original memory that have nothing to do with ET doing it.

I'm very much aware of what human technology can do in this realm (see substrate independent minds thread) and the quote fron the airforce document new vistas.

but that doesn't in and of itself prove ET isn't doing it too, on the contrary its proof of concept it can be done to the target mind.

 

[mike]

why beings able to enter into (and/or emerge out of) the depths of his psyche would need such archaic technology to bring him to orgasm.

And again we can only speculate the relevance if indeed any, that this observation represents. But it doesn't in and of itself provide any compelling proof its not happening.

Its always funny to watch denialists and debunkers insist any narratives or accounts of experiencers lack evidence/proof and are thus not true. Whilst at the same time making absolute statements of fact , hypothesis presented as truth with no evidence to support those fervent claims.

"we just don't know" is the honest reality.

 

[Liminalist]

Strieber presents a familiar ufological tale: that of the contactee prophet (some might say profit) who has an exceptional narrative of personal contact, compelling enough to make movies and stir up action on the show threads after a lengthy dormant period. There's nothing new with his own narrative involving invented magical beings. In fact he's made his own Kripalian Scriptures, including how he was marked early on in childhood and now travels a mystical path. Enter the magician and watch him him pull a grey out of his hat.

Strieber's "mystical path" predates his recalled experiences with magical beings, in the official storyline at least: he had undisclosed involvement with The Process Church in 68 and joined the Gurdjieff foundation, I believe the following year, the year he met Anne. He also joined the Mars Anomalies Society, a shadowy group with an interest in supposed architecture on Mars and UFOs, in 1984, the year before it all began. All of this rather gives the lie to his self-presentation as a super-regular guy with no interest in UFOs dragged into gnosis without warning or preparation.

Kripal isn't all that sketchy imho, just an interpreter of unique experiences and fairly wise when it comes to the historic sex stuff and the land of impossible coincidences. Those authors of the impossible may also be managing perceptions and if he continues to market the storyteller as opposed to signifiant & factual cultural events then that would be too bad.

Have you looked into Kripal's track record & affiliations? I have done my best to ascribe naivete and good intentions on his part, but the evidence is getting difficult to ignore. Ditto Peter Levenda, who interviewed them both for Dreamland and spent a good ten minutes gushing about the luminosity of the new book.

 

[Liminalist]

And again we can only speculate the relevance if indeed any, that this observation represents. But it doesn't in and of itself provide any compelling proof its not happening.

Its always funny to watch denialists and debunkers insist any narratives or accounts of experiencers lack evidence/proof and are thus not true. Whilst at the same time making absolute statements of fact , hypothesis presented as truth with no evidence to support those fervent claims.

"we just don't know" is the honest reality.

On the contrary, Strieber being raped with an electro-ejaculater provides compelling proof that it is happening and that is had nothing to do with advanced nonhuman beings. To argue otherwise is sophistry, as is throwing out the old "we just don't know" line whenever losing an argument.

 

[mike]

provides compelling proof

No its not proof that advanced non humans are not doing it, that's another example of opinion presented as fact.

I doubt I can lose an argument where I argue we don't know, you are the one making absolute claims of fact with no proof.

Can humans use an electro ejaculator to extract sperm, you've answered yes, it is indeed true.
Could an ET use the same device in the same way, yes of course it could the function is in the device not the weilder.

We might speculate that ET might have a better way, but we really don't know that.

What we do know is the device works and there is nothing stopping an ET using such a device or one utilising the same operational principles.

Your claim that since humans use them its proof ET isn't fails the logic test.

 

[Liminalist]

I doubt I can lose an argument where I argue we don't know.

Exactly. But it is also a way not to engage with the argument. Can I hear your argument as to why advanced nonhuman beings would use 1948 technology in 1985 to force a man to ejaculate? More to the point, explain to us why you feel a need to argue this? I am not making claims of fact, because I don't know that Strieber's accounts are even accurate, or if REE was ever used on him. It is more a case of presenting logical arguments for people to consider. The question of whether you, or anyone, believes in nonhuman beings is moot here because we are talking of a specific detail in a specific case, not some general principal about existence. If you want to keep arguing this then by all means, present your arguments here instead of merely insisting that you don't know anything and no one does. This is a way to end an argument without having to lose it, that's all.

The question is: where is the evidence for Strieber's claims of nonhuman contact, and what, based on his testimony and our own research, can be reasonably deduced? I am presented the REE (which you brought up) as evidence that, whatever Strieber was interacting with at that time, it was human and earthly. I don't honestly see how anyone can argue against this unless it is by using sophistry or just saying "We don't know." Fine, but then you don't know that your cat isn't really an alien space probe either, but that doesn't mean you are going to stop feeding it. I hope not anyway.

 

[mike]

evidence that, whatever Strieber was interacting with at that time, it was human and earthly

But its not, the best we can say is that such a device exists and can be used for that purpose, there is no compelling evidence one way or the other as to whether it was humans or aliens pushing the on/off switch.

 

[Liminalist]

I don't think even you believe your arguments, Mike. Go feed your alien space probe.

 

[Honey-Pot]

[...] but that doesn't in and of itself prove ET isn't doing it too, on the contrary its proof of concept it can be done to the target mind.

BUT. And this is critical to understanding this issue, it is Humans that propagated the ET Abduction experience through the various media outlet communication methods that are so widespread over so many decades [even centuries with folklore symbology] that it is impossible to peg ET doing even one abduction. Humans are just too creative and magical and susceptible as tricksters, story tellers, actors, warriors, mind warps, imaginators, believers, secret hidden agendas, deceivers, money makers, power controllers, manipulative masters of the universe, hallucinators, brain abnormalities, etc. to name just a very few issues with Humans that drive ET down their silly rabbit hole. Too many other Human causes override that possibility considering there is too much Human entanglement and involvement from beginning to end.

That does not mean I disrespect someone's genuine ET Abduction experience as not being real for their sense of understanding. I don't know their motives or life history, etc. to judge what is the likely cause.

Betty and Barney Hill are believable as strictly Human caused events, so ET is the rabbit hole. Also, this case and all that follow were built upon the incredibly defective and unscientific belief that hypnosis and repetitive regressions would verify and recover more and more of the original memories, when the fact is now well established and understood by science that such methods can and do implant false memories that change and/or destroy the original memories. It's a repetitive "brain washing" technique that can bury the original memories. Screen memories is being used in reverse, when blaming ET for doing it. Humans created the ET screen memories.