Flying Saucers do not exist.

[Derek Wood]

Think about this.

The conceptual evolution of visitors from space has centred on the notion of vehicle of travel. Early uptake saw some utterly simplistic notions and designs that came to form the bedrock of ufology. These concepts were, during their time, deemed advanced, novel, otherworldly. But viewed from our standpoint two or three generations later, thy appear positively childlike and contrived. Look back at the pictures of these flying saucers. It's almost embarrassing.

To match the delusion, our concepts have been subordinated to the plethora of creative science fiction out there today. New and fantastic concepts have given birth to a whole new range of designs which have attempted to transcend our notions of "today's technology".

Lights in the sky.
Why on earth would intergalactic visitors have lights on their craft. It's such an obvious question but never dealt with. The most economical answer is that they are simply powered vehicles that we have launched. Drones. Jets. Whatever.

Drifting around.
For 70 years or so flying saucers have demed it necessary to hover around several hundred meters off the ground. Always at night. And always with lights on.
Why do they never show themselves unequivocally. Why in all cases does the concept of parsimony and Occam's razor easily offer more economical explanations. What possible value can be argued for inter galactic visitors just coasting around in such a fashion. It's nonsense. Utter pure idiotic nonsense.

The historical evolution of images attributed to flying saucers has evolved both in terms of their outward design and their capability. They proceed in a linear fashion with how we ourselves develop new science fiction based narratives.

To ignore this is self seduction of the worst kind.


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[Stagger Lee]

"Always at night, always with lights"
Just off the top of my head, the object at O'Hare airport 8 yrs back did not fit this pattern. Assuming that case was some kind of weather phenom. There are plenty of documented cases where pilots reported strange objects under intelligent control backed with radar returns. It is a mystery to me, why so many use the "cell phone cams" and "why lights on craft" to dismiss every unexplained event since the mid 20th century.

 

[manxman]

Guys fishin lee, now he will invite you to show him proof, and a merry little dance will ensue, with him giggling like a school boy in the background..

Extremely bored, or on pharmaceuticals.


This is his last effort, of which this would just be a duplicate.

The most convincing case of an Identified Alien Craft (IAC) is? | The Paracast Community Forums

 

[Oakenwulf]

Ok Slenderman

 

[Stagger Lee]

Guys fishin lee, now he will invite you to show him proof, and a merry little dance will ensue, with him giggling like a school boy in the background..

Extremely bored, or on pharmaceuticals.


This is his last effort, of which this would just be a duplicate.

The most convincing case of an Identified Alien Craft (IAC) is? | The Paracast Community Forums

"Proof" in this case can go both ways. I'd like to see some proof that pilots were chasing balloons and swamp gas. Dismissing the military's "interest" in this phenomena is denial of the worst kind.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

No end of crackpot theories that focus on carefully chosen sets of imaginary facts. That works both ways too.

 

[Stagger Lee]

No end of crackpot theories that focus on carefully chosen sets of imaginary facts. That works both ways too.

Personally, do you consider theories such as eth, idh etc. as crackpot?

 

[Derek Wood]

Well the ad hominem remarks don't really reflect on you as a rationally minded person. I'm more inclined to agree that pilots and radar tracking is the way to go. But as for lights in the night sky and the essential reasoning as to why aliens would fly around for years on end just lacks intellectually sound answers.


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[Derek Wood]

Guys fishin lee, now he will invite you to show him proof, and a merry little dance will ensue, with him giggling like a school boy in the background..

Extremely bored, or on pharmaceuticals.


This is his last effort, of which this would just be a duplicate.

The most convincing case of an Identified Alien Craft (IAC) is? | The Paracast Community Forums

I'm a university lecturer in the UK. Not a school boy. Grow up.


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[Derek Wood]

Simply musing on some essential basic questions:

1. A huge amount of recent evidence is illuminated craft at night.
2. Why would space ships do this. Is it a perverted game. Surely an intergalactic technology could spy on us at will in secret (back to the lights)
3. A recent paracast episode saw MUFONS video guy when asked about authentic evidence unable to list any credible evidence. He then went into dismiss loads of cases that the uncritical swallow as a gospel.


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[Double Nought Spy]

Personally, do you consider theories such as eth, idh etc. as crackpot?

Short answer is no.

There are many crackpot "theories" out there, based rather nominally on some assumptions that may or may not be valid. I don't have any problem with the idea that some of the better reports are the result of some alien getting into a space ship and coming here for whatever reason. I tend to think of that as the "Star Trek Model". It's fun and makes for some great movies, but I would not bet on it being more than that. Really my opinion has been, for decades, that we don't know enough to make an intelligent statement about who they are or how they got here. I commented in another thread today on the interdimensional idea. That's actually the one that makes the most sense to me.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Well the ad hominem remarks don't really reflect on you as a rationally minded person. I'm more inclined to agree that pilots and radar tracking is the way to go. But as for lights in the night sky and the essential reasoning as to why aliens would fly around for years on end just lacks intellectually sound answers.


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To be fair, the title of this thread doesn't appear to be rational, but we are all entitled to our opinions.
But I do agree that "lights in the night sky" can be the result of just about anything other than aliens flying around to put on a show.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Short answer is no.

There are many crackpot "theories" out there, based rather nominally on some assumptions that may or may not be valid. I don't have any problem with the idea that some of the better reports are the result of some alien getting into a space ship and coming here for whatever reason. I tend to think of that as the "Star Trek Model". It's fun and makes for some great movies, but I would not bet on it being more than that. Really my opinion has been, for decades, that we don't know enough to make an intelligent statement about who they are or how they got here. I commented in another thread today on the interdimensional idea. That's actually the one that makes the most sense to me.

Thanks. Perhaps because I can't wrap quite wrap me head around the dimensional thing, I tend to lean towards the ETH, although I remain on the fence as far as the source of the phenom.

 

[Derek Wood]

Flying Saucers are a hangover term. An artificial construct. A conclusion and statement of fact before any sensible proof has been tabled. I do not doubt that life and advanced life exists in other parts of the universe.

It's just that the evidence for visitation that would promote this scientific thinking does not exist yet.

So how on earth can we promote the notion of flying saucers.


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[Double Nought Spy]

Looks to me like you have "reasoned" yourself into a corner. Good luck.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Flying Saucers are a hangover term. An artificial construct. A conclusion and statement of fact before any sensible proof has been tabled. I do not doubt that life and advanced life exists in other parts of the universe.

It's just that the evidence for visitation that would promote this scientific thinking does not exist yet.

So how on earth can we promote the notion of flying saucers.


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Should a lack of evidence completely dismiss the notion of an unknown source of advanced visitation? Even when the data points towards some type of visitation?

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Thanks. Perhaps because I can't wrap quite wrap me head around the dimensional thing, I tend to lean towards the ETH, although I remain on the fence as far as the source of the phenom.

They could both be true, along with several other origins. The only thing we know for sure is there is a hell of a lot we don't know.

 

[manxman]

Flying Saucers are a hangover term. An artificial construct. A conclusion and statement of fact before any sensible proof has been tabled. I do not doubt that life and advanced life exists in other parts of the universe.

It's just that the evidence for visitation that would promote this scientific thinking does not exist yet.

So how on earth can we promote the notion of flying saucers.


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What type of evidence of visitation does not exist yet, and who are the 'we' you refer to ?.

 

[Ezechiel]

Simply musing on some essential basic questions:

1. A huge amount of recent evidence is illuminated craft at night.
2. Why would space ships do this. Is it a perverted game. Surely an intergalactic technology could spy on us at will in secret (back to the lights)
3. A recent paracast episode saw MUFONS video guy when asked about authentic evidence unable to list any credible evidence. He then went into dismiss loads of cases that the uncritical swallow as a gospel.


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A huge amount of recent evidence is illuminated craft at night. Why would space ships do this. Is it a perverted game. Surely an intergalactic technology could spy on us at will in secret (back to the lights) ?
That's one big problem with ufology... putting everything in the same basket when we have no clue about the source of the craft LOL

Your question is extremely vague considering that the craft could come from star faring civilizations at various stages of technological evolution.... Which specific race of ET's are you referring to, coming from where in the stellar neighborhood ?
Lights? They could just be an emission of photons due to some interaction between the craft's displacement mechanisms and the composition of its outer shell. Your guess is as good as mine. They could also be trying to mimic our craft to blend in and become somewhat stealthy.The craft could range from a simple probe to a ship possibly carrying organic beings or inorganic sentient constructs (AI)... different configurations for different purposes. Different solutions from a collection of wildly different civilizations that have worked around Einstein limitations

If you're interested in biological processes, you need to send some craft on site to get real data on life forms, atmospheric gases at different altitudes, ecosystem stability. Threat assessment from a few light years away sounds bizarre, you need to infiltrate at close range. I'm going to assume highly technological civilizations will be stealthier than those that have found premature shortcuts to space travel. (Like when we first traveled to the moon).

 

[Wade]

This is not an area in which I should post because I don't really study or immerse myself in the details of individual cases, as such i would give thought to the possibility that there's has been plenty of "dark" UFO's that have arrived at our shores but not reported because they left the lights out and went unseen. The very question that Derek posted was brought up by me once , among the inevitable answers were that the lights were a by product of exotic technology to which my thought was well if this was true, wouldn't the next step be to conceal these "emissions" with a damper of sorts, given the technology in place that would bring them here I would think that this would be the next logical step and shouldn't be too hard.

This brings up the point that Fort made about us being kept cattle... i paraphrased here... and "they" want us to know they are milling about and ultimately we are answerable to them.

So despite the sometimes scintillating bits of evidence that sometimes gets left behind it would seem that perhaps the UFO phenomena lends itself to be approached more from a philosophical pov than an scientific pov