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Flying Saucers do not exist.

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Any yet more totally unnecessary and biased supposition. Distorting the picture to fit your own premise

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Its like any religious posture :D

You choose not to consider the idea that there might be visiting/probing craft coming to earth from other solar systems from time to time (Atheistic posture concerning ET). Do you have any conclusive evidence (proving once and for all) that it would be impossible to traverse the vast expanse of space between stars ? ;) Your stance kind of implies that earthlings are the best of the best of the best in a galactic context. Very earth centrist... and very compatible with a christian fundamentalist posture. Would you be a born-again christian by any chance ? A few hundred years ago, humans still believed that the sun revolved around the earth.

I choose to consider the safer possibility that exploratory craft dare to approach our hostile planet from time to time. If the biological mechanics are incompatible with earths.. the decontamination process would have to be extensive. Imagine for a moment intelligent beings whose biological constructs would cause Ebola-like reactions on humans (and vice versa). :eek:

The protein creation mechanics within a human white cell (above video) is astounding. Can we expect the same development on other worlds ?... I can't wait to find out and I'm fairly certain a whole set of civilizations that have developed the capacity of travelling between stars will have a natural reflex of assessing all nearby planets that have an organic signature in order to measure threat levels from cellular to technological levels if there is a sentient presence.

I think you get my drift ;)

Ancient+Alien+Astronaut.jpg
 
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Its like any religious posture :D

You choose not to consider the idea that there might be visiting/probing craft coming to earth from other solar systems from time to time (Atheistic posture concerning ET). Do you have any conclusive evidence (proving once and for all) that it would be impossible to traverse the vast expanse of space between stars ? ;) Your stance kind of implies that earthlings are the best of the best of the best in a galactic context. Very earth centrist... and very compatible with a christian fundamentalist posture. Would you be a born-again christian by any chance ? A few hundred years ago, humans still believed that the sun revolved around the earth.

I choose to consider the safer possibility that exploratory craft dare to approach our hostile planet from time to time. If the biological mechanics are incompatible with earths.. the decontamination process would have to be extensive. Imagine for a moment intelligent beings whose biological constructs would cause Ebola-like reactions on humans (and vice versa). :eek:

The protein creation mechanics within a human white cell (above video) is astounding. Can we expect the same development on other worlds ?... I can't wait to find out and I'm fairly certain a whole set of civilizations that have developed the capacity of travelling between stars will have a natural reflex of assessing all nearby planets that have an organic signature in order to measure threat levels from cellular to technological levels if there is a sentient presence.

I think you get my drift ;)

Ancient+Alien+Astronaut.jpg


Totally bizarre reply.
I have a phd in human evolution. I am not a born again Christian. Try another dig. My thesis and research is specifically concerned with the impacts of climate change and ecological disruption. Heinrich events and faunal turnover.
I understand perfectly well time depth and evolutionary models and mechanisms.
I also understand nonsense.
I completely agree that life will exist in other places. I'm on the fence as to whether they have to date visited us. Evidence? It's flimsy at best and the people associated with the strongest claims are bizarre in many cases.
So many people in "ufology" build layers and layers of ridiculous and unsupported notions (?tricksters - come on) on top of one outlandish claim after another. With no rational or critical claim.
Listen to a recent episode of the paracast with MUFONS chief analyst. He himself calls the state of modern and past video evidence fraudulent and fake - he could not list one meaningful example.


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I couldn't care less about tricksters. Plenty of outlandish claims and beliefs out there. Also tons of unexplained stuff.

Your studies are earth centric ... Fine. Take some time and do I bit of extrapolation ;)

What is your problem with the idea that humans don't have the monopoly on curiosity and innovation? ... And self-defense ? Does 100k years of sentient evolution on this planet represent the ultimate expression of intelligence in a 14 billion year old universe ?
 
I've never been able to understand nonsense.

That could be your problem, Derek.

Any like any fascist intellectually bereft individual you lack the foresight to see the implication of your statement.

The intricate depth of rumour, fiction and outright lies perpetuated as fact and received theory is a stupidity I find hard to understand.

The essential flimsiness of the evidence and it's obvious creative licensing shows me the apathy of the majority.

For the record: I firmly believe life exists somehere out there. He evidence for visitation is negligible. Twinkling lights in the sky. With nothing even remotely incontestable.

Show me I'm wrong.


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So do you think they are all lying, mistaken or deluded?






hidden experience: Arthur C. Clarke said that he's seen lots of UFOs

Kelly Johnson's UFO Encounter - Lockheed UFO Case - YouTube

Ufo switches off nuclear dummy warhead - YouTube

President Jimmy Carter Admits To Seeing A UFO On Larry King Live - YouTube

I agree that probably 95 or more per cent of people and stories coming out of Ufology are dubious to say the least. 99% of videos you'll find on youtube etc. are hoaxes and CGI and the rest is blurry dots in the sky.

But even if it's only 1 per cent of genuine sightings, that justifies interest in the phenomenon and even serious research, which you have to seperate from the huge bulk of nonsense and speculative fiction going on.
 
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Your phd is in a theory, until I see a missing link. And your dismissal of the trickster notion smells a bit like European ethnocentrism.
Some folks knew there were mountain gorillas way before a white guy found one, but nobody would believe.
Maybe the trickster is another word for what Jung termed synchronicity. Or maybe it's a bipedal fox deity who hangs out with your missing link. I don't know. And more importantly, neither do you. Arrogant. (Yeah, I know.. Ad hominem)
 
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Come on, man, I was just needling you about your grammar. "I know nonsense when I see it" would have been a much better way to express that thought. No need to burn that valuable brain fuel you require. I understood there were several ways my comment could be taken, but my faith in your abilities was borne out when you chose the one you did.

Heh. If we all had a nickel for every time someone came blowing in here with some highfalutin' flapdoodle and got upset with all us philistines, we could pool our resources and have a hell of a party.
 
So do you think the are all lying, mistaken or deluded?






hidden experience: Arthur C. Clarke said that he's seen lots of UFOs

Kelly Johnson's UFO Encounter - Lockheed UFO Case - YouTube

Ufo switches off nuclear dummy warhead - YouTube

President Jimmy Carter Admits To Seeing A UFO On Larry King Live - YouTube

I agree that probably 95 or more per cent of people and stories coming out of Ufology are dubious to say the least. 99% of videos you'll find on youtube etc. are hoaxes and CGI and the rest is blurry or little dots in a night sky.

But even if it's only 1 per cent of genuine sightings, that justifies interest in the phenomenon and serious research (which you have to seperate from the huge bulk of nonsense and specualative fiction going on in Ufology).

I'll watch these Polterwurst later tonight cheers.


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Your phd is in a theory, until I see a missing link. And your dismissal of trickster notion smells a bit like European ethnocentrism.
Some folks knew there were mountain gorillas way before a white guy found one, but nobody would believe.
Maybe the trickster is another word for what Jung termed synchronicity. Or maybe it's a bipedal fox deity who hangs out with your missing link. I don't know. And more importantly, neither do you. Arrogant. (Yeah, I know.. Ad hominem)
 
Come on, man, I was just needling you about your grammar. "I know nonsense when I see it" would have been a much better way to express that thought. No need to burn that valuable brain fuel you require. I understood there were several ways my comment could be taken, but my faith in your abilities was borne out when you chose the one you did.

Heh. If we all had a nickel for every time someone came blowing in here with some highfalutin' flapdoodle and got upset with all us philistines, we could pool our resources and have a hell of a party.
Thanks for "flapdoodle". That made my day!
 
Just watched the first three. I have to say the pilots account was astounding. The pilot experiences seem truly valuable. Shame the planes don't run on board cameras.


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There are approximately nine million theories put forth to explain UFOs and their occupants. I have good confidence in that figure, as I asked my neighbor, a shape-shifting reptilian. (They are famous for the ability to count vast numbers of things.) Anyway, the theories pretty much all share the same basic problem: In order for them to appear to be even just a good candidate for finding The Solution, one must ignore a very substantial body of evidence that contradicts the theory. This is the central problem Ufology has attempted to grapple with for decades. Just about the time we think we've found an idea that covers a good part of the evidence, more of it appears and so the goal posts move. Bright people like Vallee have observed that and contemplated what that might mean in terms of a larger pattern. But Vallee does not ignore evidence. He does not arrogantly assume, for example, that people reporting strange looking humanoid creatures messing around in their yards are delusional or just lying. That is the principal difference between someone like him, and a million other people with theories.
 
You have one of the most irrational and unscientific multi faceted outpouring. You offer so many "could be" scenarios but without any evidence.

Put a child on an island who worship giraffes and elephants as being the mother and father of that island population and that child, without recourse to other streams of information is probably destined to grow up worshiping pictures of elephants and giraffes.

My point being so many people are victims of poorly prescribed and evidence bereft ideas that are as creative as they are unscientific.

You fall into this category.


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Thats pretty funny coming from someone who posits statements of absolute facts like the title of this thread, and comments like

Always at night. And always with lights on.

As others have pointed out the claim simply doesnt match the data, thus your premise fails

Ive often said "i dont know" is the most honest answer one can give to the question surrounding this enigma.

You on the other hand have given statements of absolute fact, and thats the most irrational and unscientific behaviour of all.

It is the behaviour of a 3 year old with fingers in ears chanting Nya Nya Nya to block out the offending information.

You are of course entitled to your pov, but you have not made a convincing case to support your statements of absolute fact, far from it, such supporting arguments like

Always at night. And always with lights on. fall flat on their face.

Indeed your premise is so clearly and deeply flawed i wont be wasting anymore of my time on you


Do you have any idea how silly you look posting

Distorting the picture to fit your own premise
Always at night. And always with lights on


The beauty of threads like this is its all there in black and white for all to see.

In claiming Always at night. And always with lights on, its you who's Distorting the picture to fit your own premise
 
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Multiple witnesses
Police, a former air traffic controller.

Police offer:" all people i spoke to, had exactly the same thing to say. There was no varience whatsoever (in the description of) the object that was sighted



'The Gosford Files' details the 1995-96 flap where police officers are mentioned in several cases, in particular one incident where the local police were chasing a strange flying metallic craft back and forth across the bay all night. As residents called to report that they were woken by a thunderous roar and blinding lights, animals howled, cowered and hid. The case remains a mystery today but there is little doubt that the sightings were real and credible people had an extraordinary experience.
UFO Sighting, The Gosford Incident, Multiple Witness, UFO News, Video | <b><i><a href="http://www.educatinghumanity.com">Educating Humanity</a></i></b>
 
The conceptual evolution of visitors from space has centred on the notion of vehicle of travel. Early uptake saw some utterly simplistic notions and designs that came to form the bedrock of ufology. These concepts were, during their time, deemed advanced, novel, otherworldly. But viewed from our standpoint two or three generations later, thy appear positively childlike and contrived. Look back at the pictures of these flying saucers. It's almost embarrassing.

To match the delusion, our concepts have been subordinated to the plethora of creative science fiction out there today. New and fantastic concepts have given birth to a whole new range of designs which have attempted to transcend our notions of "today's technology".
... What possible value can be argued for inter galactic visitors just coasting around in such a fashion. It's nonsense. Utter pure idiotic nonsense.

The historical evolution of images attributed to flying saucers has evolved both in terms of their outward design and their capability. They proceed in a linear fashion with how we ourselves develop new science fiction based narratives.

To ignore this is self seduction of the worst kind.
Grand solutions, like grand rejections, never seem to fit the data just quite right. The notions of the ever-changing type of object that we see is a fascinating part of the phenomenon. How our interpretations and imaging of the craft have shifted over time do reflect our own technology and imagination of what alien craft, robots or humanoids might look like - that is indeed a specific thread in the UFO tapestry. This has nothing to do with seduction, but is just a function of the limitations of our interpretations of impossible experiences with unknown, wild, external stimuli.

Whether or not we can associate mundane answers to all the images of craft i.e. hoaxes or experimental craft across time is a conundrum, as in some cases the capabilities of the objects are far in advance of human capacity, as opposed to being just a little in front of our current abilities where the terrestrial likelihood of such objects is high. But some of the stories presented to us, and many are daytime, coming in all manner of strange configurations, do not always match the meme of the day. In fact some of the really odd cases seem to fly in the face of news born patterns and suggest anomalous experiences far too difficult & surreal to explain. Speaking as a perennial doubter, i still have to admit the repetition of such absolutely bizarre cases involving multiple witnesses during day and night, with and without lights, indicate that there is in fact something very strange going on. Limiting these experiences to merely lights in the sky is to skim off the easy fat of ufology and has nothing to do with the two types of witnessed events that we have recorded historically.
type13.jpg
The many witness cases i've alluded to reside most often in the memory of the witness alone. These cases are strange, surreal, defy logic, but are recorded nonetheless in the minds of the witnesses (Kelly Hopkinsville, Pascagoula, Falcon Lake, Ariel Zimbabwe etc.) and no two are alike, nor are these easily explained. They may or may not fit existing patterns of reported UFO design. It can be argued that these cases are directly influenced of course by the cultural frontloading of the witness - context of the witness is everything when you are trying to describe something you've never seen before.

Then there are other cases that are considered the hardcore cases with radar confirmation, multiple witnesses and interactions that give our military leaders great pause, are concerned mostly with shoulder shrugging and we just remain slack jawed and unable to properly ascertain just what that craft was or where it came from, but "We ain't seen nothin' like it round here before!"( Tehran 1976 and RB-47 are classic examples.) These are not simple cases and have no real mundane explanations at all.

Regarding motive and the ridiculousness of it all, of all those supposed implants, hybridized children, lengthy needles, countless water & soil samples and all the relentless probing, well really, who are we to know the mind of the alien? While i personally find it greatly unlikely that an alien species would ever make its way to earth to stop by, smell the roses, overheat a few cars, abduct some folk, and believe it even more improbable an alien craft has ever crashed in the desert, i still know that the answer to this enduring mystery is not a simple one and can not be explained away by your mere wish. To date history does indicate certain witnessed patterns that are not easily reconciled, and if they're not alien then there's some other, more interesting things happening on this planet that we haven't fully comprehended or have much proof of.
ufo1.gif
And to be clear, i think it's mostly impossible that aliens have ever abducted anyone, still, i find some of the cases regarding AP and humanoid encounters to be more than just engrossing, but entirely inexplicable (Pier Zanfretta, Westall 1966). There are no easy answers for these cases. I agree that theorists who use research well give us a little headway (Vallee, Clark, Rutkowski) but most of the field is mired with the repetition of known hoaxed and mundane cases which clogs up the vision of the actual intricacy of the entire phenomenon. It has affected people profoundly and suggests that the phenomenon's effect lingers long after the witnessed event. This is not just about delusion, kooks, or misperceptions - it's way more difficult than that.
 
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Just watched the first three. I have to say the pilots account was astounding. The pilot experiences seem truly valuable. Shame the planes don't run on board cameras.

I absolutely agree. But even if there had been cameras and they did capture something, the footage would belong to the military, not the pilot. I'm pretty sure there's quite a bit of camera footage being kept under wraps.

EDIT Since you seem not to have seen the witness statements I posted above, I'll post a few more when I have the time. Here's a few I found quite credible, too:

Westall UFO 1966 -Mass sighting at Westall High School - Full - YouTube
 
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Derek Wood said,
"Totally bizarre reply.
I have a phd in human evolution. I am not a born again Christian. Try another dig. My thesis and research is specifically concerned with the impacts of climate change and ecological disruption. Heinrich events and faunal turnover."
And yet..
image.jpg
So you have a PhD in human evolution, (which you throw around in arguments [classy ;) ] ), your thesis was on climate change (not evolution) and you work in business development, but you're also a lecturer.
(?!?)
I normally wouldn't ask, but since you brought it all up, is any of that true?
 
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