Flying Saucers do not exist.

[TrivialSublime]

Think about this.

The conceptual evolution of visitors from space has centred on the notion of vehicle of travel. Early uptake saw some utterly simplistic notions and designs that came to form the bedrock of ufology. These concepts were, during their time, deemed advanced, novel, otherworldly. But viewed from our standpoint two or three generations later, thy appear positively childlike and contrived. Look back at the pictures of these flying saucers. It's almost embarrassing.

To match the delusion, our concepts have been subordinated to the plethora of creative science fiction out there today. New and fantastic concepts have given birth to a whole new range of designs which have attempted to transcend our notions of "today's technology".

Lights in the sky.
Why on earth would intergalactic visitors have lights on their craft. It's such an obvious question but never dealt with. The most economical answer is that they are simply powered vehicles that we have launched. Drones. Jets. Whatever.

Drifting around.
For 70 years or so flying saucers have demed it necessary to hover around several hundred meters off the ground. Always at night. And always with lights on.
Why do they never show themselves unequivocally. Why in all cases does the concept of parsimony and Occam's razor easily offer more economical explanations. What possible value can be argued for inter galactic visitors just coasting around in such a fashion. It's nonsense. Utter pure idiotic nonsense.

The historical evolution of images attributed to flying saucers has evolved both in terms of their outward design and their capability. They proceed in a linear fashion with how we ourselves develop new science fiction based narratives.

To ignore this is self seduction of the worst kind.


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You're right, all valid points, flying saucers don't exist, you win.

With that being said, now you can leave .....

Or as Manxman has stated ( how I hate to agree with him , you are out to yank chains and create a masturbatory discussion ( thats my bent on it...) in the forums, have fun.

You also said

" I'm a university lecturer in the UK. Not a school boy. Grow up. "

There's a difference?

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Just more wankerblather. Everybody needs a hobby I guess, including someone with eight jobs, apparently.

Done with this childish mess.

 

[Wade]

Well if nothing else over the past couple of days I've managed to expand my vocabulary a bit as i can now add flapadoodle and wankerblather to my lexicon.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Epic "part 2" potential here. Move over "consciousness paranormal" thread.

 

[Polterwurst]

This documentary about british UFO files has several interesting witness statements of pilots and police officers. If you don't have the time, skip over the researcher interviews, true believer nonsense and skeptical "explanations".

This is the statement of the late Werner Utter who was a chief pilot of the german "Lufthansa" airlines. Unfortunately, it's only in german and there are no subtitles. Shortly before he died, Utter agreed to an interview about three sightings he had had in his many years of flying . His sightings have been called misinterpretations of stars and rocket launches, which he just smiled at. The "star" followed his airplane and changed colour (he calls it a "living thing" in the interview) and on another occasion a fireball "stood" only a few feet away from the plane outside his window for two minutes " (that is, it was flying parallel to the plane).

Might be interesting, too:

 

[Derek Wood]

This documentary about british UFO files has several interesting witness statements of pilots and police officers. If you don't have the time, skip over the researcher interviews, true believer nonsense and skeptical "explanations".

This is the statement of the late Werner Utter who was a chief pilot of the german "Lufthansa" airlines. Unfortunately, it's only in german and there are no subtitles. Shortly before he died, Utter agreed to an interview about three sightings he had had in his many years of flying . His sightings have been called misinterpretations of stars and rocket launches, which he just smiled at. The "star" followed his airplane and changed colour (he calls it a "living thing" in the interview) and on another occasion a fireball "stood" only a few feet away from the plane outside his window for two minutes " (that is, it was flying parallel to the plane).

Might be interesting, too:

Cheers mate. I'll watch these tonight. I find these pilot experiences utterly fascinating


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[Derek Wood]

Derek Wood said,
"Totally bizarre reply.
I have a phd in human evolution. I am not a born again Christian. Try another dig. My thesis and research is specifically concerned with the impacts of climate change and ecological disruption. Heinrich events and faunal turnover."
And yet..

So you have a PhD in human evolution, (which you throw around in arguments [classy ] ), your thesis was on climate change (not evolution) and you work in business development, but you're also a lecturer.
(?!?)
I normally wouldn't ask, but since you brought it all up, is any of that true?

Yes business development is very common and a key part of academic research. Increasingly sources of funding are more difficult to win and business cases (whether attracting new funds or new students in overseas markets) is a part of university life.

You obviously don't know much about it so I hope I've shed some light on it for you.


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[Derek Wood]

Any again.
Because you obviously seem a little bit naive - phd research is highly inter disciplinary. If you wish I'll send you a pdf copy of it.


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[Jeremiah Dugger]

Yep. That's why I blunder into forums on evolution and pontificate my own brand of B.S.

 

[Derek Wood]

Polter cheers for those videos. The New Zealand evidence which was filmed, he's left me aghast.

Watching a history channel programme discussing amongst other things Gemini 11 etc. wow!


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[Derek Wood]

BurntState & Polterwurst I humbly admit i will redress some of my premises. I have never doubted life exists extra earth just that the concepts of flying saucers has been a regretable way to envision them. Its such a restrictive and limiting term. Its in need of doing away with. The phenomenon is far more multi faceted.


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[Burnt State]

Epic "part 2" potential here. Move over "consciousness paranormal" thread.

Agreed, the most riveting discussions here are about whether or not they exist, or at least what is the nature of their existence, as this often moves us closer to new territory through more inventive ways of seeing different facets of the problem. Too often we draw direct lines from the past through to the present to confirm simple notions of aliens from space visiting us since ancient times, controlling our history, breeding new races in their slow motion take over of the planet, or my favourite, Friedman's concept of earth as training grounds for alien masters' students looking to get their degrees in exobiology - whatever.

Why they have the lights on, and some are indeed quite spectacular displays, is a good question. We have often assumed that 'they' want to be noticed, or we say things like, "A-ha, it's the trickster at work," when so much of this history is one written by humans responding to the interpretations of other humans. We have in fact always written our own mythologies without much by way of hard confirmation of a core seed that started it all. Sometimes, I think, stories are just stories and we shouldn't draw too many conclusions from them.

Good doubt breeds imagination. Curiosity is another driving agent in this discussion as is the collaborative nature of humanity who sees faces everywhere - so narcissistic are we. Maybe all we're really seeing are distorted images of ourselves, or some kind of assumptions about what should be there when we don't quite understand what we're looking at.

 

[exo_doc]

Dereks just yanking ya chains, told yall 2nd or 3rd post in.

I agree Manx. This guy completely ignored my post. He's just trolling for an argument.

 

[Ezechiel]

BurntState & Polterwurst I humbly admit i will redress some of my premises. I have never doubted life exists extra earth just that the concepts of flying saucers has been a regretable way to envision them. Its such a restrictive and limiting term. Its in need of doing away with. The phenomenon is far more multi faceted.


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Multi faceted is the key here. For the moment the only facet I'm interested in is the nuts n bolts facet as is Stanton Friedman.

It's the one facet that IMHO is the likeliest to be partially decoded in my lifetime. And the one that could potentially inspire humans to find creative solutions to interstellar travel which likely has the manipulation of the fabric of space as a foundation. The LHC and discovery of the God particle are obvious first steps in that direction.

Until our specie can mimic the 'phenomena'... We'll have to keep our biological farm animal status lol.

Just to clarify what the heck is the relation between the God particle and interstellar space travel: The God particle explains why mass increases to infinity when it nears the speed of light thus restricting faster than light travel.
Higgs boson find by CERN could make light speed travel possible, scientists speculate | National Post

Scientists went into a frenzy following the announcement, speculating that it could one day make light-speed travel possible by “un-massing” objects or allow huge items to be launched into space by “switching off” the Higgs.

You can't get here from there

 

[mike]

I agree, an extension of the existing model seems the most likely, ie nuts and bolts technology serving as transportation for sentient species and or other sophonts.

The gosford incident i posted earlier is a classic example, the simple explanation is multiple witness' including a former air traffic controller and Police saw the exact same craft in multiple locations

 

[Erno86]

I tend to speculate...that these lighted alien starships simply depend on lighted photons for fuel, so they can feed the photon propulsion unit installed onboard the saucer; in places that lack starlight photons.
So maybe a flying starship cannot be cloaked at such times, simply because they don't have the technology to cloak a starship using that form of propulsion; unless it's run on some form of impulse power.

 

[manxman]

Maybe they need the lights for flying in blackholes aswell erno.

 

[mike]

Light is simply radient energy

Light is radiant energy, usually referring to electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the human eye, and is responsible for the sense of sight.[1] Visible light is usually defined as having a wavelength in the range of 400 nanometres (nm), or 400×10−9 m, to 700 nanometres – between the infrared, with longer wavelengths and the ultraviolet, with shorter wavelengths.[2][3] These numbers do not represent the absolute limits of human vision, but the approximate range within which most people can see reasonably well under most circumstances.

The purpose of lights as observed on some UFO's is something we can only speculate on, but it could range from an extension of our own models ie as a way of being seen through to reasons beyond our imagination.

The premise that since some UFOs have lights they cant be extra terrestrial in origin is as absurd as suggesting

These do not exist

because humans use these

There are any number of possible reasons why UFOs might emit EMR as radiant energy. That some have been observed to do so isnt proof they dont exist, or that they must be man made.

Man is not the only species here on earth that uses light for a purpose


Indeed the example ive shown has two different species using light for the exact same purpose, to attract prey

More lights

Bioluminescence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Wade]

Indeed the example ive shown has two different species using light for the exact same purpose, to attract prey

Well that's encouraging

I'm somewhat intrigued by the occasional mention that some people report a kind of communication between an initial sighting and contact. In thses instances at least, It's almost like the UAP needs to be acknowledged or validated in order to initiate further contact. I have never witnessed a ufo and I have no enthusiasm for getting sucked into a relationship with one. I wonder if I ever spotted something anomalous and just ignored it, if it would just leave me be.

 

[Jeff Davis]

I agree, an extension of the existing model seems the most likely, ie nuts and bolts technology serving as transportation for sentient species and or other sophonts.

The gosford incident i posted earlier is a classic example, the simple explanation is multiple witness' including a former air traffic controller and Police saw the exact same craft in multiple locations

The problem with the nuts n bolts is the material nature of nuts n bolts. Stanton, or no one else it seems, can explain why "technological hardware", a concept relevant only to humanity at this quickly passing point in time, does in no way obey characteristic behaviors of any hardware that we can imagine. Do we not see the concept of hardware, via the progressive nature of our own developments, diminishing everywhere all around us? Is not the ultimate goal of technological advancement, ultimately, self reliance wherein there is an overt ever integrating infinitesimal disappearance of as much hardware? To me, a living technology dependent on a yet known or understood medium, apart from distance traversing star ships seems far more likely. Far and away removed from the ignorant notions of nuts n bolts machinery destined for some crash landing in a local desert, whose fallible nature could never be kept a secret were it half as present as the UFO phenomenon presents itself as being. No way. Nuts n bolts equals the cavemen mindedness of UFO considerations and integrating as much relevant to ourselves is laughable, and most, including Vallee, have "seen" this. A place minus space wherein all points exist simultaneously in a grid like coexistence is just our own mathematically derived translation via the native interfacial relationship that our own cognition renders via the universal constant of consciousness. If we can see and understand this, even providing support for as much via strenuous mathematical gymnastics, what about beings millions of years our advance? Nuts and bolts indeed. You're talking material and energetic conversions for which there is no support whatsoever. Then there is the fact that many of these things fade in and out of perceptive existence, or hop from one small distance to another minus any notion of speed whatsoever. Theoretical relativity predictions made to describe possible wormholes do not match any available observational evidence. The problem is, accredited observations don't match anything apart from our vain imaginations of what "hardware" we may be witnessing. Nuts and bolts just don't match up, and I fail to see why beings obviously privy to domains far and away beyond our constraints should be bound to what are mere temporally relevant imaginings. Flying Saucers do not have to fit inside the comfort zone of one's pants pockets to be real. The question, the FAR and away more so important question, WTF is real?