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From The NY Times: The Pentagon's Secret UFO Program
- Thread starter IsaacKoi
- Start date
Free episodes:
Ezechiel
Paranormal Adept
What the Pentagon's secret UFO program reveals
... from Canada Nick Pope chimes in:
The hidden message behind the revelation
What's pivotal in this revelation, says Pope, is the confession.
"The real story here is the political one in that for decades now the U.S. government said we are not interested in UFOs. We are not investigating them. Turns out they are," he says.
"Their pilots are chasing them, and there's this secret classified research effort to try and get to the bottom of the mystery."
Pope predicts governments all around the world investigate and research the phenomenon in our skies.
Neil would be proud:
One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind
.... and you wonder why trust in institutions is always challenged. At the core of all this long winded debate lies what is really important for a healthy society, successful partnerships and ultimately the long term survival of a specie: Trust.
... from Canada Nick Pope chimes in:
The hidden message behind the revelation
What's pivotal in this revelation, says Pope, is the confession.
"The real story here is the political one in that for decades now the U.S. government said we are not interested in UFOs. We are not investigating them. Turns out they are," he says.
"Their pilots are chasing them, and there's this secret classified research effort to try and get to the bottom of the mystery."
Pope predicts governments all around the world investigate and research the phenomenon in our skies.
Neil would be proud:
One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind
.... and you wonder why trust in institutions is always challenged. At the core of all this long winded debate lies what is really important for a healthy society, successful partnerships and ultimately the long term survival of a specie: Trust.
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I think one of them is. This is an alleged extract of one of the pilots reports. (provenance below)
It specifically mentions the Nimitz and the tic tac UFO.
2004 USS NIMITZ FLIR1 VIDEO
The other video which is making the news more often, the Gimbal video is being presented alongside the Nimitz narrative and interviews which is frustrating.
The news seems to be running this video.
GIMBAL VIDEO
With the interviews that narrate the Nimitz tictac, USO story. I also have issues with this report extract, its provenance is the The Aviationist points to a 2007 post from Above Top Secret (a site for discussing classified government programs) that seems to describe the incident in greater detail. The posting appears to be an excerpt from Carrier Air Wing 11’s event summary for November 14, 2004.
But if its an official event summary surely mailing a copy of the details and perhaps even a copy of the FLIR footage to his Aunt would have landed him in the brig.
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I did indeed.
From The NY Times: The Pentagon's Secret UFO Program
From The NY Times: The Pentagon's Secret UFO Program
But im glad you made them again. I think they are important aspects of this case.
You have to wonder the British MOD tells people seeking FOIA access "We destroyed the files."
The Australian Govt is pulling the same trick.
Australian Government Loses All Its UFO Files
Its classic Dog ate my homework.
"The dog ate my homework" is an English expression purported to be a favorite excuse made by schoolchildren explaining their failure to turn in an assignment on time. The claim of a dog eating one's homework is inherently suspect since it is both impossible for a teacher to disprove and conveniently absolves the student who gives that excuse of any blame. Although suspicious, the claim is not absolutely beyond possibility since dogs are known to eat—or chew on—bunches of paper. It has grown beyond the educational context, becoming a sarcastic rejoinder to a similarly glib or otherwise insufficient or implausible explanation for a failure in any context.
And personally i consider that in and of itself inherently suspect.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
The hypothetical limit for the Periodic Table is between 137 and 173, and at the upper end elements are synthetic because they become unstable and radioactive. There's a rumored "island of stability" somewhere above 117, but even if that's true, it would be an extremely heavy and dense material that is exceedingly rare or available only by synthesis, which would make it a lousy material for building transport craft. But even then it's not like we couldn't figure it out if we had a chunk of it to work with.Four new elements added last year.... yawn... how many more in 1000 years ?
One of the commentators here makes a good point
The company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena
Nothing there says the alloys are unidentified - just the phenomena. These alloys are most likely normal and fine alloys.
And because it made me laugh i'll add a reply that was posted
The company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena
Nothing there says the alloys are unidentified - just the phenomena. These alloys are most likely normal and fine alloys.
And because it made me laugh i'll add a reply that was posted
Another excellent comment from that article
Everything is possible with nanotechnology.
We don’t officially have much going on there, but there is a way to make organic metal. And we can also make metal, easily enough, that carries specific frequencies through while blocking others. Charged correctly those frequencies can interact with specific types of matter. In the case of an fMRI, we take those waves and tune them precisely to monitor both the energy output and frequency of materials in the body as they operate. These can be EMF, but they also are magnetic materials that are naturally occurring in the bloodstream. Like any kind of light, we can tune specific wavelengths to see specific types of atoms clearly. This is crudely used during an xray exposure, but we can use Chromial Axial Tomography and ever advancing computational resources to provide clearer and clearer pictures of the operation and function of our bodies.
Using those same methods with the appropriate frequencies and specifically defined patterns, you can alter the configuration and composition of those materials in the body. Inducing an EMF not triggered by chemical interaction, for instance, or even altering proteins in such a way as to trigger a false signal. Some of this will happen when we create the first nanoscale BCI, other elements we can do now with fMRI and direct stimulation. If you can read a thing, you can potentially write a thing.
Thus if you have a piece of “metal” that is specifically attuned to induce a certain biological response in an organic being, its probably constructed of nano-scale equivalents of the fMRI and is either powered by the ambient energy in the area, or the people conducting tests with it are providing the power with whatever sensors or power lines are near by to trigger the effect.
Granted, this is an outside observer’s stab at writing fiction based on some knowledge of what we are capable of doing in the realms of material science and technology right now - or what we will shortly be able to accomplish in the next 10-20 years. But what you got to ask yourself is this: if these were last looked at a decade ago... think about what our current advances would reveal about such materials now.
I will also point out that none of this points to an non-terrestrial source. The Antikytheria device proves very nicely that things we thought were beyond someone’s reach because it took us until X year to accomplish isn’t necessarily beyond the reach of any modern human. After all, our brains haven’t changed that much over the centuries and I’m sure ben franklin wasn’t the first person to figure out precisely how lightning worked... he’s just the first person to write it down somewhere it was easily accessible.
The Russians are masters of magnetic fields. They’ve been playing with such things with far more success than others have for a very long time. There’s the reason that Tokamak is the generally accepted word for “magnetic bottle” in a torical plasma fusion reactor.
So i looked into it and what do you know.......
http://www.tandfonline.com/action/journalInformation?show=aimsScope&journalCode=lsrt21
Inorganic and Nano-Metal Chemistry is devoted to the rapid dissemination of original research papers of relevance to inorganic and metal-organic chemists and nano-scientists engaged in synthesis and characterization of Inorganic, Main Group, Metal-Organic and Nano-Particulate Constructs. This journal publishes syntheses and reactivity of new compounds, new classes of nanoparticles, new methods for preparation of known compounds and nanoparticles, and new experimental techniques and procedures
Everything is possible with nanotechnology.
We don’t officially have much going on there, but there is a way to make organic metal. And we can also make metal, easily enough, that carries specific frequencies through while blocking others. Charged correctly those frequencies can interact with specific types of matter. In the case of an fMRI, we take those waves and tune them precisely to monitor both the energy output and frequency of materials in the body as they operate. These can be EMF, but they also are magnetic materials that are naturally occurring in the bloodstream. Like any kind of light, we can tune specific wavelengths to see specific types of atoms clearly. This is crudely used during an xray exposure, but we can use Chromial Axial Tomography and ever advancing computational resources to provide clearer and clearer pictures of the operation and function of our bodies. Using those same methods with the appropriate frequencies and specifically defined patterns, you can alter the configuration and composition of those materials in the body. Inducing an EMF not triggered by chemical interaction, for instance, or even altering proteins in such a way as to trigger a false signal. Some of this will happen when we create the first nanoscale BCI, other elements we can do now with fMRI and direct stimulation. If you can read a thing, you can potentially write a thing.
Thus if you have a piece of “metal” that is specifically attuned to induce a certain biological response in an organic being, its probably constructed of nano-scale equivalents of the fMRI and is either powered by the ambient energy in the area, or the people conducting tests with it are providing the power with whatever sensors or power lines are near by to trigger the effect.
Granted, this is an outside observer’s stab at writing fiction based on some knowledge of what we are capable of doing in the realms of material science and technology right now - or what we will shortly be able to accomplish in the next 10-20 years. But what you got to ask yourself is this: if these were last looked at a decade ago... think about what our current advances would reveal about such materials now.
I will also point out that none of this points to an non-terrestrial source. The Antikytheria device proves very nicely that things we thought were beyond someone’s reach because it took us until X year to accomplish isn’t necessarily beyond the reach of any modern human. After all, our brains haven’t changed that much over the centuries and I’m sure ben franklin wasn’t the first person to figure out precisely how lightning worked... he’s just the first person to write it down somewhere it was easily accessible.
The Russians are masters of magnetic fields. They’ve been playing with such things with far more success than others have for a very long time. There’s the reason that Tokamak is the generally accepted word for “magnetic bottle” in a torical plasma fusion reactor.
So i looked into it and what do you know.......
http://www.tandfonline.com/action/journalInformation?show=aimsScope&journalCode=lsrt21
Inorganic and Nano-Metal Chemistry is devoted to the rapid dissemination of original research papers of relevance to inorganic and metal-organic chemists and nano-scientists engaged in synthesis and characterization of Inorganic, Main Group, Metal-Organic and Nano-Particulate Constructs. This journal publishes syntheses and reactivity of new compounds, new classes of nanoparticles, new methods for preparation of known compounds and nanoparticles, and new experimental techniques and procedures
That was my point exactly. Plus, how come nobody ever mentions the seldom mentioned National Reconnoissance Office (NRO) they must have several metaphorical tons of data detecting craft entering and leaving the Earth's airspace—if we are truly dealing w/ extra-terrestrials. Ron Regehr says that every recon/spy satellite system built and operational since the early 90s has an outward looking component.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
For sure, which means if the SLV Camera Project does happen to get something substantial, it would be even more of a victory. So glad you didn't read anything negative in my comment. If I won a lottery it's one of the first things I'd donate toward getting operational. But sometimes I can't help but think the theatrical and Tricksterish modus operandi of the phenomenon, coupled with your history of experiences, means it probably already knows what you're up to and is going to adapt in some way in response. This in and of itself could be something interesting to look out for, perhaps it might even be of more significance than any pictures.
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Assuming the alleged navy personnel are being truthful
"I can tell you, I think it was not from this world," Fravor said. "I'm not crazy, haven't been drinking. It was — after 18 years of flying, I've seen pretty much about everything that I can see in that realm, and this was nothing close."
Fravor said he was on a routine training mission off the coast of California when he witnessed a 40-foot “wingless object” that he described as a Tic Tac, flying at incredibly high speeds in strange patterns.
"I have never seen anything [like this] in my life, in my history of flying, that has the performance, the acceleration [of this vehicle] — keep in mind this thing had no wings," Fravor said.
The pilot said the object’s speed was “stunning” and could not explain what he saw that day.
What did he see ?
He has no proof his assumption it was "not from this world" is true.
What else do we have ?
Secret weapons ?
Ghosts ?
The options are:
Hes lying about the incident and its a psyops:
He saw a genuine unknown object and we can guess at what it was and rank the probability of those guesses .
Personally i rule out ghosts and any other supernatural answer given there was FLIR footage.
So Secret weapon/vehicle:
ET craft:
In paring down these two i ask myself if they believed it was "russian or chinese" they wouldnt close the dept down over funding or religious objections.
Funding might be a reasonable answer if they knew it was one of their secret aircraft, but religious objections ?.
Like everyone else i'm only guessing, but Sherlocks maxim comes to mind about now.
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I agree 100% but we'll only know for sure if we try!
Thomas R Morrison
Paranormal Adept
Look – I can certainly understand your hesitation; we’ve been so bombarded with hoaxes and frauds and disinformation for so long – especially here in this field of inquiry, that you’d have to be crazy to abandon caution when a story like this breaks.
But on the other hand, I find the level of cynicism with many of the posts about this story to be heartbreaking. Because for the first time, in my lifetime anyway, this subject that’s so important to us is finally being taken (mostly) seriously by the mainstream press, and for damn good reasons: the existence of the Pentagon’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Detection Program has been made public and verified by top officials, some pretty incredible FLIR footage has been released, and a “top gun” fighter pilot has come forward and provided additional and amazing information. It all appears to be legit. This is terrific news.
Certainly the alphabet agencies and some other major players have horribly betrayed the public trust time and time again. But the people involved in getting this story out appear to be sincere, above-board people driven by the same thing that we are: a desire to understand this phenomenon and to get pertinent information out to the public. Not everyone within the system is part of the problem, and frankly these folks appear to be some of the good ones who are working very effectively on advancing solutions, and promoting serious-minded open public discourse of this subject.
I just think that we should give them a chance – this is an amazing story, so they’ve earned it.
Luis Elizondo, who’s a member here at the forums, didn’t make those remarks – Ralph Blumenthal (one of the journalists who wrote the story) did, and it appears that he was simply spontaneously editorializing about the materials in question. So an entire article about one journalist’s off-hand remarks about this stuff seems like huge overkill to me – he’s not a scientist and he doesn’t speak for anyone else involved in this story, so implying that the alloys are “unidentified” starts and stops with him, nobody else.
But even if he’s repeating something that he heard, it’s not necessarily unreasonable to characterize a material as “unindentified” if it demonstrates unfamiliar physical properties. Sure, you could tell what types of elements/isotopes that anything is composed of, but that doesn’t mean that the material is understood. Say, for example, that we gave a Pentium 4 microprocessor to a 19th Century team of scientists. They could probably determine what elements it was made of. But they’d have no idea how its complex internal logic gateways process electrical signals. So while its composition would be determinable, its function would be unidentified, and so it would be reasonable to classify it as an unidentified material.
We have no idea what the alloys and other recovered materials are, or if they have any unusual properties, so it’s a little silly to even debate it until we know more. But I’d like to point something out, which may become relevant once we have more information: materials physicists are now working on a new class of materials with the incredibly dreary and misleading name of “topological insulators.” Insulation has very little to do with it – these are actually highly advanced molecular compounds that are engineered to produce customized quantum wavefunctions – some of which are fairly mundane, like creating superconductive properties, while others manifest entirely new physical properties and combinations of properties that we’re only beginning to understand and explore. So this idea that we’ve pretty much figured out everything that matter can do, is simply BS. We’ve figured out a great deal, certainly – we’ve got the ABC’s of the periodic table and basic chemical bonding pretty much all figured out at this point. But in many respects we’re just getting started, and the only result that would be surprising is if the results of this kind of research don’t turn out to be surprising and exciting.
That last part is the crucial bit “There's pretty much nothing we couldn't figure out if we had direct access to it for long enough.” If we’re dealing with a technology that’s thousands or more years ahead of us, it would still take us that long to fully understand it. For example, right now we’re just beginning to explore extremely high-energy physics in domains like quark-gluon plasma, and groups of entangled particles, and we’ve even begun to create macroscopic matter in a single quantum state with superconductors. But it’s easy to imagine that a more advanced civilization could manufacture an entire craft with a range of integrated systems that operate as a single highly sophisticated quantum object, and thereby exhibit properties entirely unknown to modern science. Frankly I think we’d be fools to expect otherwise.
Where I think Gene goes astray, is when he asserts that we wouldn’t even recognize hyperadvanced technology as technology. I think that assumption is unfounded. Such technology would certainly have capabilities that we’d find to be astonishing, but technology has always involved matter engineered to perform specific functions, and we’ve come far enough now to recognize technology as technology, no matter how advanced, without succumbing to some kind of dramatic psychological disorientation. Imagine if an ancient Greek observed a modern Navy battleship – everything from its propulsion system to its energy source to its myriad defensive functions, would be completely alien to him. But he’d still recognize that it’s basically just a really big and advanced kind of boat: he wouldn’t go half-insane and have a vision of Poseidon riding a chariot drawn by mermaids.
We’re touching on the shores of the island of stability right now, but we don’t have the technology to get to the neutron-rich isotopes that are expected to have half-lives on the order of many thousands or perhaps even millions of years. But when we do synthesize fairly stable superheavy isotopes, then we’ll probably find far more useful functions than lining the hull of a craft with it, or something trivial like that.
And I’m not ready to rule out even more exotic possibilities in the area of nuclear physics. Bubble nuclei are particularly fascinating, and I don’t think we know the limits of that yet; perhaps someday we’ll be able to synthesize highly complex nuclear structures unseen in nature, or maybe even complex quark-gluon structures like a porous neutronium lattice of some kind that would offer virtual indestructibility at atomic scales of thickness. I expect that novel forms of nuclear engineering will be a burgeoning field in the centuries and millennia hence, and that dovetails beautifully with the future technology of applied general relativity.
It’s all too tempting to impose our current conceptual and technological constraints on the future. But every time we’ve tried to do that, we’ve proven ourselves wrong. So I like to keep this thought in mind: “you can’t prove something to be impossible; you can only prove what’s possible.” While there may be a few inviolable physical laws, I think we should be humbled by our own science history and recognize that time and time again we’ve found clever ways around them to achieve whatever we set our minds to. And in that regard, I strongly suspect that we’re not alone.
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Hollywood Tomfortas
Paranormal Adept
Came across this reddit thread which also see the DeLonge juggernaut as a cash grab, but this writer involves John Podesta in the mix as well.
Breaking Down the Recent UFO News & Events • r/conspiracy
So what's happening? This is where John Podesta comes into play. Podesta, who has his own history of UFO interest, featured prominently in his Wikileaks e-mail, documented contact with Tom Delonge and has been repeatedly promoting Tom Delonge's company via Twitter. I think it seems reasonable that Delonge's team heard about the DoD UFO program being declassified prior to it's declassification, and used this as a platform to provide entertainment, and a fictional backstory to the program.
John Podesta, in previous emails, has been shown to have direct contact with journalists, publications, specifically the publications that have been promoting Delonge's story. The NY Times, Politico, CNN, FoxNews is involved now as well.
Does it not seem reasonable this is just an opportunistic cash-grab? The program was real, and declassified, although it did little except server as a tax-haven/slush-fund/whatever, and likely did no legitimate research. Delonge's company TTSA jumped on this opportunity, as they already purportedly have $2 million in funding from outside investors, put together the video, the Elizonda backstory, and used their media contacts to make it all happen; completely unrelated to the Pentagon program.
Just my 2 cents, feel free to debunk. I'd love for aliens to be real too.
tl;dr: Tom Delonge is capitalizing on actual program disclosure, but anything related to him is solely for entertainment purposes to promote his company and using his media connections w/ Podesta to promote it.
Breaking Down the Recent UFO News & Events • r/conspiracy
So what's happening? This is where John Podesta comes into play. Podesta, who has his own history of UFO interest, featured prominently in his Wikileaks e-mail, documented contact with Tom Delonge and has been repeatedly promoting Tom Delonge's company via Twitter. I think it seems reasonable that Delonge's team heard about the DoD UFO program being declassified prior to it's declassification, and used this as a platform to provide entertainment, and a fictional backstory to the program.
John Podesta, in previous emails, has been shown to have direct contact with journalists, publications, specifically the publications that have been promoting Delonge's story. The NY Times, Politico, CNN, FoxNews is involved now as well.
Does it not seem reasonable this is just an opportunistic cash-grab? The program was real, and declassified, although it did little except server as a tax-haven/slush-fund/whatever, and likely did no legitimate research. Delonge's company TTSA jumped on this opportunity, as they already purportedly have $2 million in funding from outside investors, put together the video, the Elizonda backstory, and used their media contacts to make it all happen; completely unrelated to the Pentagon program.
Just my 2 cents, feel free to debunk. I'd love for aliens to be real too.
tl;dr: Tom Delonge is capitalizing on actual program disclosure, but anything related to him is solely for entertainment purposes to promote his company and using his media connections w/ Podesta to promote it.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
That's the con side of the pro and con view, which is why I'm reserving judgement. The counterpoint might be: So what if they raised cash to do a UFO awareness project that can be distributed via entertainment networks? Entertainment is a facet of the field that can be educational and informative and help inspire interest in the subject. So really, what's the problem? If we'd gone out an got 2 million to do something then there'd be critics who would have something to say about how we spend it too. It's easy to be an armchair critic. So far I don't see enough evidence that there's no genuine and constructive interest in the phenomenon and that it's just pure opportunism at the expense of what he thinks are just a bunch of UFO nuts.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Absolutely, and BTW, glad it seems you're feeling better. You sounded like your old self on the last show
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
There's a bit of goalpost moving going on there. We started off talking about identifying the makeup of a piece of material, not fully understanding it as a piece of technology, and having an actual piece of such material would allow us to analyze it all the way down to the subatomic level. You just don't get any more basic than that. So while it's true we might not know what it's role is in the larger picture as a piece of foreign technology, that doesn't mean we wouldn't be able to identify what it is.
That's fascinating to ponder, and if we can already imagine that, and it's possible, and we had a sample of such technology, I think that given our rate of technological advancement, that we'd be fools to think we wouldn't figure out a piece of technology a thousand years ahead of us far sooner than a whole millennium. We'd probably have it figured out before your grandkids are grown and the Chinese would be making knock-offs a year after that.
Agreed. At least in the context of us having direct access to it rather having it used on us in a way that is designed to fool us. For example if the aliens are using active camouflage to make their craft appear to be an airplane, we might not recognize that we're looking at an alien craft.
First Macroscopic Quantum Entanglement Performed At Room Temperature
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