I think you somehow misportray his viewpoint. Well, what you say about him didn't fit the feeling Firmage left me in this interview as an individual who would give some credit to some debatable elements but also expressing some doubts and not standing entirely on one side. So I went again to that show, and indeed Firmage didn't mention fiber optics coming from somewhere else nor did he say he believes the MJ12 to be entirely authentic...Actually, he said that he's more inclined to believe that some core in the MJ12 documents has some truth, as well as in the the Corso's claims. These positions may have some logic if one supposes the Roswell incident to be a ufo crash, which Firmage does, while he also said he was not absolutely sure. I haven't read his book (just found it recently on internet) so there maybe some materials from him I'm not aware of, but from that show Firmage didn't give absolute credits to these elements (MJ12, reversed ET technology).
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Go Daddy and Joe Firmage ... like WTF??
- Thread starter Decker
- Start date
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I think you somehow misportray his viewpoint. Well, what you say about him didn't fit the feeling Firmage left me in this interview as an individual who would give some credit to some debatable elements but also expressing some doubts and not standing entirely on one side. So I went again to that show, and indeed Firmage didn't mention fiber optics coming from somewhere else nor did he say he believes the MJ12 to be entirely authentic...Actually, he said that he's more inclined to believe that some core in the MJ12 documents has some truth, as well as in the the Corso's claims. These positions may have some logic if one supposes the Roswell incident to be a ufo crash, which Firmage does, while he also said he was not absolutely sure. I haven't read his book (just found it recently on internet) so there maybe some materials from him I'm not aware of, but from that show Firmage didn't give absolute credits to these elements (MJ12, reversed ET technology).
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Thanks for keeping me honest. That was probably what I extrapolated that from, since I am highly skeptical of the MJ12 documents and Corso's claims of re-engineering night vision, transistors, and the like.
@chikane - It is nice to see someone politely suggest a correction - there is no need for people to ever get antsy over this and that over a podcast/radio show.
@Trained -As expected you yourself behave like a gentleman.
LIKE to both of you
goggs
@Trained -As expected you yourself behave like a gentleman.
LIKE to both of you
goggs
trainedobserver> you're welcome 
, actually Firmage gave some credits to the MJ12 documents and Corso's claims but not entirely though. I thought you meant this, which was not my impression after hearing the show, so I just wanted to clarify this. However I haven't read his book nor haven't heard of him before so he may have said or written things that weren't touched upon or even differ from what was said in the show. That I don't know...
goggsmackay> thanks and... you're right
, actually Firmage gave some credits to the MJ12 documents and Corso's claims but not entirely though. I thought you meant this, which was not my impression after hearing the show, so I just wanted to clarify this. However I haven't read his book nor haven't heard of him before so he may have said or written things that weren't touched upon or even differ from what was said in the show. That I don't know...goggsmackay> thanks and... you're right
Firmage was working with the Wood's and I consider that effort to be a waste of time, money, and chalk full of horse-shit. One of the document people that work with them ... well lets just say I am aware of some very un-savory things this person was part of. I totally distrust all of that.
Just saying for what it is worth.
Decker
Just saying for what it is worth.
Decker
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
It really looks to me that Firmage had his act together and was highly successful, then he had a classic religious/ET experience [or perhaps a psychotic break] much like David Sereda's (who saw Jesus), that launched him down the road to ruin where he started to incorporate things into his world view that maybe he shouldn't have.
Well, here is the question that I have. Did Firmage .. or Sereda actually have an experience or was it really a result of "wish-full" thinking?
Years ago John Keel and I had a conversation about various people who "underwent an
Illumination." My question then (and now) is exactly what in hell is that?
Decker
Years ago John Keel and I had a conversation about various people who "underwent an
Illumination." My question then (and now) is exactly what in hell is that?
Decker
Like a UFO-epiphany?
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
With all due respect to those who have these things, my personal view is that these are real experiences, but rather than communications from "out there" they are self generated hallucinations where the subconscious mind demands an audience and gets it . If they were what they appear to be or are claimed to be then something actually useful and positive would come from them. But do they ever? Nah, they don't. Perceptual malfunctions caused by who knows what? The cause could be anything from emotional turmoil (Sereda as in the middle of a life-crisis and great physical stress) or something in the environment temporarily jamming the reality meter all the way over to the "WTF?" peg and bending the needle.
Well Observer, whatever this process is .. and I truly doubt we will ever have a satisfactory answer, whatever it is I believe we can agree that it is not a good thing. It is as if the "self governing" mechanism has been disengaged and rendered inactive. I believe, for my own self, that it has to be a mental process that perhaps "kicks in" during times of high stress or maybe even illness. But whatever it is ... and it is documented throughout history, I do believe it is very dangerous.
Decker
Decker
David Icke seems to be hugely popular these days, esp in the states but if you rewind 20+ years, he was initially a professional sportsman (soccer) and then he was a TV presenter for sports programs. Well liked and professional, he took the whole of the UK by surprise when almost overnight he started espousing all this weird shit, went mad for the colour purple (really) and a host of other heretofor strange behaviour.
My point is this thing Trained alluded to and then Don, what I call a 'UFO epiphany', well David Icke 100% had one of those life-changing experiences. From a man who was ridiculed mercilessly in his home country, being invited onto chatshows almost like a circus freak show, I mean he really was brought on so everyone could snigger at his downfall while the chat show hosts would slyly put him down for our amusement.
It's a funny old world though, now in the present day David Icke is HUGE and he sells loads of books and sells out mammoth speaking engagements and he is rolling in money now. No-one in the UK would have EVER dreamed this is where David Icke would be today!
I make this point neither in defense or attack of David Icke, merely to illustrate that what looks to some like a mental breakdown, can be a turning point in someone's life and whether we like it or not - there always seem to be ample willing people to swallow all the crap that comes out of the mouths of these ufo-epiphany types.
Discuss. (
)I wished I understood what you mean, Don (because I'm not aware of what that Wood's stuff is about)
My belief is this may be a very complex question and there might be different explanations ranging among different possibilities from some (temporarily) mental disorders, stress effects, wish-full thinking, to even external and "paranormal" phenomenon not yet understood.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
If these experiences were what they "appear" to be, communications from a higher power of some kind, the information they provided would be something other than "dream quality" information. Dream quality information comes from the subconscious churning on some problem and then communicating it through metaphor and symbolism. Sometimes great insights into real world problems and situations can be had, most often than not however its like someone took the governor off the imagination and let it run wild. Everyone has had profound and relative dreams at one time or another. I think these can occur in states of mind that obfuscate their dream nature and as a result a person literally cannot tell dreams from reality. Their reality meter takes a break. It may start working again but the reality of the "dream", "waking dream", or what have you, is already filed in the wrong cabinet under "really happened."
I've had what seemed like very lucid dreams and seemingly profound religious oriented dreams myself in the past. Last year I had a very vivid and lucid dream as the result of reading a passage from Tom Campbell's My Big Toe and thinking about how dreams, hallucinations, and waking reality all use the same display apparatus within the mind. I went to sleep shortly after and dreamed I was in the lobby of the office building where I work. The floor of the lobby is tiled in marble. I realized I was dreaming and that the lobby was picture perfect (admittedly this is dream reasoning) I knelt down and examined the tile closely. It looked and felt like the marble tile in the lobby at work. "I'm dreaming and I can't tell the difference in how it looks and feels.", I'm thinking. I look up and the lobby is a dream lobby now with visibility dropping to a dark blur in all directions after a couple of yards. Standing just outside my ability to see clearly, are several figures. In the dream I am given the impression that they have arranged this in answer to my internal deliberations about the nature of reality and how it is experienced. The photo-realism of the dream erodes further and I wake up, but remember the dream in its entirety, as though I had just walked from one room into another.
Now, I say all that to say this. I know that wasn't real, that beings from some other place didn't read my thoughts and decide to take me on a virtual field trip. I am grateful for that, because that was not always the case in the past. For a number of years while I was in the depths of seeking God through the Christian tradition I had lucid dreams where dream figures spoke to me about God and what He wanted (which usually just consisted of "be more devote") and I considered it a sign of communication from God.
I think it boils down to being able to cultivate and maintain a perspective that works in the real world of daily living and not dream landscapes or our individual subjective realities.
One mitigating factor in these things for me is the use of caffeine, which has fueled this post b.t.w. In my younger years when I was going to school, working, and attending every church service I could make, I was running on caffeine and little sleep. I drink way too much caffeine to this day and have had a couple of doctors tell me it contributes to vivid dreams although I seldom remember my dreams now so it doesn't seem to matter that much.
I've had what seemed like very lucid dreams and seemingly profound religious oriented dreams myself in the past. Last year I had a very vivid and lucid dream as the result of reading a passage from Tom Campbell's My Big Toe and thinking about how dreams, hallucinations, and waking reality all use the same display apparatus within the mind. I went to sleep shortly after and dreamed I was in the lobby of the office building where I work. The floor of the lobby is tiled in marble. I realized I was dreaming and that the lobby was picture perfect (admittedly this is dream reasoning) I knelt down and examined the tile closely. It looked and felt like the marble tile in the lobby at work. "I'm dreaming and I can't tell the difference in how it looks and feels.", I'm thinking. I look up and the lobby is a dream lobby now with visibility dropping to a dark blur in all directions after a couple of yards. Standing just outside my ability to see clearly, are several figures. In the dream I am given the impression that they have arranged this in answer to my internal deliberations about the nature of reality and how it is experienced. The photo-realism of the dream erodes further and I wake up, but remember the dream in its entirety, as though I had just walked from one room into another.
Now, I say all that to say this. I know that wasn't real, that beings from some other place didn't read my thoughts and decide to take me on a virtual field trip. I am grateful for that, because that was not always the case in the past. For a number of years while I was in the depths of seeking God through the Christian tradition I had lucid dreams where dream figures spoke to me about God and what He wanted (which usually just consisted of "be more devote") and I considered it a sign of communication from God.
I think it boils down to being able to cultivate and maintain a perspective that works in the real world of daily living and not dream landscapes or our individual subjective realities.
One mitigating factor in these things for me is the use of caffeine, which has fueled this post b.t.w. In my younger years when I was going to school, working, and attending every church service I could make, I was running on caffeine and little sleep. I drink way too much caffeine to this day and have had a couple of doctors tell me it contributes to vivid dreams although I seldom remember my dreams now so it doesn't seem to matter that much.
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
dyingsun
Paranormal Adept
Great points, by now I always also keep a minor stroke or Epilepsy in mind.
Someone asked about information on Joe Firmage and what he's doing. It tried to post a link to a press release, but it won't let me. So, go to academyofscienceandarts org and check out press releases if you want to know more. This is pretty much a rebranding of a dream he's been chasing since OneCosmos in 2000.
Having spent considerable time working with Joe during the past decade, I'm still not sure I truly know the man. The guy is fascinating in good and bad ways. He couples brilliant insights with considerable charisma, making him an effective speaker and fundraiser. He is pathological in his pursuit of his goals, to the point he'll lie shamelessly (to family, friends and investors) when necessary. I know first hand that he convinced numerous employees to work for specific salary amounts, but then couldn't always raise the money to pay them (a violation of the law, which he was willing to do). When ManyOne went bankrupt (where he was CEO and founder) in 2009, the company owed employees hundreds of thousands of dollars, all of which they lost. Many were people who couldn't afford to lose that kind of money, but kept working because he promised they'd get paid. Thus he has a string of people who dislike him for good reasons. To his credit, he was as broke as everyone else, because he lost most everything prior to the bankruptcy, including his California home.
In my conversations with Joe, he never described his 'experience' as a UFO experience. He often mused it was something he ate. But, I can say he felt the experienced changed him. That was enough for me.
As for the USWeb Connection in 2011, he did not join the original USWeb company, but rather USWeb Central (a very small company) in Denver, which has since been renamed. The machinations are a little complex, but that relationship became rocky quickly and I see no evidence Joe is associated with them any more.
Based on my research it appears he's had three arrests in the last three years for DUI/vehicle infractions. I hate to see that downward spiral and I hope he gets his life together. Deep down I think there's a really good man there. It's just that he promises far more than he delivers, partly because he wants to do such big things. If you want to work with him, get paid first (and I mean wait until the cash is in your account) and set strict requirements.
Having spent considerable time working with Joe during the past decade, I'm still not sure I truly know the man. The guy is fascinating in good and bad ways. He couples brilliant insights with considerable charisma, making him an effective speaker and fundraiser. He is pathological in his pursuit of his goals, to the point he'll lie shamelessly (to family, friends and investors) when necessary. I know first hand that he convinced numerous employees to work for specific salary amounts, but then couldn't always raise the money to pay them (a violation of the law, which he was willing to do). When ManyOne went bankrupt (where he was CEO and founder) in 2009, the company owed employees hundreds of thousands of dollars, all of which they lost. Many were people who couldn't afford to lose that kind of money, but kept working because he promised they'd get paid. Thus he has a string of people who dislike him for good reasons. To his credit, he was as broke as everyone else, because he lost most everything prior to the bankruptcy, including his California home.
In my conversations with Joe, he never described his 'experience' as a UFO experience. He often mused it was something he ate. But, I can say he felt the experienced changed him. That was enough for me.
As for the USWeb Connection in 2011, he did not join the original USWeb company, but rather USWeb Central (a very small company) in Denver, which has since been renamed. The machinations are a little complex, but that relationship became rocky quickly and I see no evidence Joe is associated with them any more.
Based on my research it appears he's had three arrests in the last three years for DUI/vehicle infractions. I hate to see that downward spiral and I hope he gets his life together. Deep down I think there's a really good man there. It's just that he promises far more than he delivers, partly because he wants to do such big things. If you want to work with him, get paid first (and I mean wait until the cash is in your account) and set strict requirements.
Couldn't post the link here? Curious. What happened when you tried?
OK, first post block. No problem. Wait till you're around for a few more messages and try again.