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Göbekli Tepe
- Thread starter stonehart
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stonehart
Paranormal Adept
Yeah that seems so odd.. just why did they bury them in progressive stages?
pong
Groupthink Must Die
Other excavations to watch very closely in the future are the ones in Visoko, Bosnia--the "Bosnian Pyramids." I believe Dr. Osmanagich has some data suggesting that certain constructions there predate what's been found so far at Göbekli Tepe.
Scientific Evidence Reports that Bosnian Pyramids Built Using Geopolymer Cement
In the above article this amazing statement is made: "Radio carbon dating shows the pyramid to be at least 24,800 years old."
Scientific Evidence Reports that Bosnian Pyramids Built Using Geopolymer Cement
In the above article this amazing statement is made: "Radio carbon dating shows the pyramid to be at least 24,800 years old."
exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
I'm really on the skeptical side on the Bosnian pyramid. I still have yet to see any definitive evidence of it being an artificial structure. I'm not saying Dr. O is wrong, but he needs some clear evidence the pyramid was man made. It's just not there.........I'm willing to say "yet".
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Burying is a massive endeavour too mind-boggling to begin to contemplate: to hide, protect, turn their back on?
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
It is puzzling... I am maybe thinking that the burying of it is symbolic of burying the dead.. maybe? that would make some sort of sense.
However as far as I can tell there is no evidence of human remains inside the "temples" and the fact that they get smaller over time is puzzling also.
I think the reason why they get smaller over time is that there are just fewer people practicing this brand of (If I may call it so) religion in the area...
All speculation on my part.
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Well when you look at the various transformations Easter Island's religions went through we have a very specific reason why many of the statues were stopped in mid-carving, were pulled down, had their eyes removed etc. to make way for the Birdman religion that followed. Whenever a culture starts starving to death they change gods rapidly, so your suggestion makes a lot of sense.
Gobekli Tepe, the design, it resembles a "well". Those structures that house water. This well however is housing "bread", or biscuits. The biscuit designed stones also resemble tombs. One can easily say, that billions of people will die, and also the people will be fed with the gospel, as opposed to being drunken with the gospel.
If this is the entirety of the meaning of the structures of Gobekli Tepe, the subject is the end of the earth and the second coming, or the return of the Antichrist.
There is one image on the central stone in the center of the Gobekli Tepe complex. That is of a Lizard, now in many cultures it is customary to say that: "Lizards are walking Snakes". Again, if this is the entirety of the meaning of the structure, which is to provide reinforcement for the ascension of mankind. Then it must refer to the Garden Snake in the Garden of Eve. The curse must now be lifted because the Garden Snake is no longer crawling, and the new flood waters must be therefore originated from Nibiru, as opposed to the judgment that was brought against Noah. The interpretation is irrefutable.
But is there another lesson being taught ... ?
Yes. The Church will rise above the pack Animals, which is the political cesspool.
If this is the entirety of the meaning of the structures of Gobekli Tepe, the subject is the end of the earth and the second coming, or the return of the Antichrist.
There is one image on the central stone in the center of the Gobekli Tepe complex. That is of a Lizard, now in many cultures it is customary to say that: "Lizards are walking Snakes". Again, if this is the entirety of the meaning of the structure, which is to provide reinforcement for the ascension of mankind. Then it must refer to the Garden Snake in the Garden of Eve. The curse must now be lifted because the Garden Snake is no longer crawling, and the new flood waters must be therefore originated from Nibiru, as opposed to the judgment that was brought against Noah. The interpretation is irrefutable.
But is there another lesson being taught ... ?
Yes. The Church will rise above the pack Animals, which is the political cesspool.
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
ah no sorry this site predates even a hint of monotheism and for that matter Judeo-Christan dogma by a good ten thousand years or more so I fail to see what the Christin mumbo jumbo has to do with it?
I know it is hard for those of the Christian faith to understand this but your religion is very young by world standards and not everything relates to it. If you want to understand the roots of Monotheism then I suggest that you had best get to studying the Vedic writings and Zoroastrianism (Iranian fire worship). I appreciate that you are trying to make sense of the place through your own cultural lens and socialization but the mistake you are making is what my old lecturer called "Inter religious Correlations" and we try to avoided it unless the correlations have a very heavy preponderance of evidence to support it. For example Invictus sol is in essence sun worship as are many other early religions around the world but this by no means makes them the same or of the same Theological/Sociological evolution. However in the case of Christianity one can argue that its roots come from a large number of other proto-Christin faiths and older religious traditions like the ones aforementioned. Thus Inter Religious correlations can be drawn but carefully and not as hamfisted as the Zeitgeist guys did it.
Hey over all good ideas and attempt to understand the symbolism you see at Gobekli Tepe but I simply see absolutely no evidence for your conclusions here at all other than cherry picking symbols and ideas from other traditions then putting a Judeo-Christan slant on them.
Anyway this is an absolutely fascinating topic if you really want to get down to how other religious/cult ideas and movements influenced each other in not only the near east and Europe but the far east as well.
Oh and please do not take what I have posted as a personal attack as it is far from it, what is is an opinion presented through an understanding of early religious movements and this is a forum for debate ... so ... lets debate
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stonehart
Paranormal Adept
In reference to my above post I am not saying I know what this place is for because (beyond a few guesses) I do not, but I do hope I have presented a case for what it is not.
Now if I was to have a guess at what it represents I should suspect it is related to animism and ancestor worship. Why? It is the most logical answer given what we know of the origins of many early and existent traditions. Hunter gatherer society's tend to be a mix of both but I differ to others with a much deeper knowledge in this subject.
Like I said it is a guess, hopefully an informed one, but we are talking about a place that is so old the mind boggles just thinking about how we would ever know for sure what it really represents beyond educated guesses.
For example imagine you have arrived on earth in a post human age (say we went extinct), all books have long since turned to dust and there is little or no remaining written information that could be used to make any sense of our religious ideas. Sure you can work out a few things about our civilization, but to really understanding the nuts and bolts of our philosophical thought I would think that that would be highly unlikely if not impossible given a long enough time frame after our civilization had gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Then say you unearth the remains of a church, what would you make of it? how would you even begin to understand the symbolism represented therein beyond your own cultural frame work? Yes you could make some educated guesses but the fact remains you would never really understand them.
Now imagine a world where the writing word had not yet been invented and there is no high technology that could if we are very very lucky managed to survive the eons to explain things (given you could understand what it was saying in the first place).
This is what we face at Gobekli Tepe.
Now if I was to have a guess at what it represents I should suspect it is related to animism and ancestor worship. Why? It is the most logical answer given what we know of the origins of many early and existent traditions. Hunter gatherer society's tend to be a mix of both but I differ to others with a much deeper knowledge in this subject.
Like I said it is a guess, hopefully an informed one, but we are talking about a place that is so old the mind boggles just thinking about how we would ever know for sure what it really represents beyond educated guesses.
For example imagine you have arrived on earth in a post human age (say we went extinct), all books have long since turned to dust and there is little or no remaining written information that could be used to make any sense of our religious ideas. Sure you can work out a few things about our civilization, but to really understanding the nuts and bolts of our philosophical thought I would think that that would be highly unlikely if not impossible given a long enough time frame after our civilization had gone the way of the dinosaurs.
Then say you unearth the remains of a church, what would you make of it? how would you even begin to understand the symbolism represented therein beyond your own cultural frame work? Yes you could make some educated guesses but the fact remains you would never really understand them.
Now imagine a world where the writing word had not yet been invented and there is no high technology that could if we are very very lucky managed to survive the eons to explain things (given you could understand what it was saying in the first place).
This is what we face at Gobekli Tepe.
A Doctrine, more correctly a religious creed appears to be the target, of the original creators. Christianity is the largest religion on the planet, and it can only be described as logical and intelligent if this was the subject of an extraterrestrial inquiry. We can push aside the implication of "time", this is for the most part an exclusive limitation for us, and probably not for others. If we could peep through time, what message would we send, and who would be simple and direct enough to understand it?
The stones at Gobekli Tepe, outside of religious metaphor, has another trace characteristic. The practice of Crucifixion, stringing people against stones or sticks until they bleed out and died. The original shapes of the Crucifixion mounts looked like "T"'s they looked exactly like the shapes of the stones of Gobekli Tepe you will find predominantly there. Cultures across the board practiced this, and there is one, only one personality attributed to it, namely the Christ.
This is simply an objective and accurate diagnosis of the information Gobekli Tepe is providing us. At least one possible and definitive perspective.
Well that may be your pov, but many people myself included have the exact opposite view, It is so illogical and so stupid it qualifies as nothing more than superstitious nonsense.
Its the 21st centry FFS, time to discard bronze age superstitions
Sorry stonehart, back on topic
I think this might be significant.
Ive long held the view stonehenge is a crop calculator, as any vegie gardener knows the trick is to get your seedlings in as early as possible, while at the same time avoiding the frost which kills or damages young plants.
Without a modern day calender you are stuck with seasons as indicators, but thats hit and miss.
But a shadow based prompting system is inerrant in keeping track of time.
The same shadows will fall on the same places at the same date year after year. This gives you the neolithic equivilent of todays 12 month calendars that hang on the wall today.
Making these shadow clocks out of heavy stones makes sense since if they are moved, they are no longer calibrated, they must remain in the same place even in the heaviest of winds.
Pure speculation on my part, but even the experts agree as far as this site is concerned thats all anyone has at this stage
I think this might be significant.
Ive long held the view stonehenge is a crop calculator, as any vegie gardener knows the trick is to get your seedlings in as early as possible, while at the same time avoiding the frost which kills or damages young plants.
Without a modern day calender you are stuck with seasons as indicators, but thats hit and miss.
But a shadow based prompting system is inerrant in keeping track of time.
The same shadows will fall on the same places at the same date year after year. This gives you the neolithic equivilent of todays 12 month calendars that hang on the wall today.
Making these shadow clocks out of heavy stones makes sense since if they are moved, they are no longer calibrated, they must remain in the same place even in the heaviest of winds.
Pure speculation on my part, but even the experts agree as far as this site is concerned thats all anyone has at this stage
If the site is a shadow calendar, then perhaps during the research and development phase those structures that gave bad readings were buried as they proved unreliable, perhaps that was easier than tearing down the heavy stones.
It may also be the basis of the idea the "gods" taught man how to grow crops, since the shadow mechanism itself might have seemed supernatural to the people of the time, if you watch the shadows the "gods" will tell you when to plant your seeds
ah no sorry this site predates even a hint of monotheism and for that matter Judeo-Christan dogma by a good ten thousand years or more so I fail to see what the Christin mumbo jumbo has to do with it?
I know it is hard for those of the Christian faith to understand this but your religion is very young by world standards and not everything relates to it. If you want to understand the roots of Monotheism then I suggest that you had best get to studying the Vedic writings and Zoroastrianism (Iranian fire worship). I appreciate that you are trying to make sense of the place through your own cultural lens and socialization but the mistake you are making is what my old lecturer called "Inter religious Correlations" and we try to avoided it unless the correlations have a very heavy preponderance of evidence to support it. For example Invictus sol is in essence sun worship as are many other early religions around the world but this by no means makes them the same or of the same Theological/Sociological evolution. However in the case of Christianity one can argue that its roots come from a large number of other proto-Christin faiths and older religious traditions like the ones aforementioned. Thus Inter Religious correlations can be drawn but carefully and not as hamfisted as the Zeitgeist guys did it.
Hey over all good ideas and attempt to understand the symbolism you see at Gobekli Tepe but I simply see absolutely no evidence for your conclusions here at all other than cherry picking symbols and ideas from other traditions then putting a Judeo-Christan slant on them.
Anyway this is an absolutely fascinating topic if you really want to get down to how other religious/cult ideas and movements influenced each other in not only the near east and Europe but the far east as well.
Oh and please do not take what I have posted as a personal attack as it is far from it, what is is an opinion presented through an understanding of early religious movements and this is a forum for debate ... so ... lets debate
I just watched this on the TV a couple of weeks ago and I'm fairly certain that the documentary implied that the people of Gobeki Tepe were practicing a proto-Christian faith. And I ain't no Christian, and in no way do I support any pro-Christian statements made by others, so don't throw me to the lions.
That doesnt sound right to me.
The site is considered pre pottery neolithic ie new stone age
The old testament is bronze age
And christianity is iron age
That Christianity both OT and NT are considered by many scholars to be rehashes of earlier pagan astrotheological sources is well documented, but the suggestion neolithic ppl were practising a form of proto christianity is illogical imo.
Proto-orthodox Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'll hold off on the lions, but you may be a candidate for this
Ive had this done to me several times, its not as pleasant as it sounds
I found my problem. The version linked by the OP had the part about Christianity scrubbed out. I don't think they made that good of a case for it so maybe it was edited out for that reason. Anyway, here's a link to the version I saw and the pertinent scene is at 24:40That doesnt sound right to me.
The site is considered pre pottery neolithic ie new stone age
The old testament is bronze age
And christianity is iron age
That Christianity both OT and NT are considered by many scholars to be rehashes of earlier pagan astrotheological sources is well documented, but the suggestion neolithic ppl were practising a form of proto christianity is illogical imo.
Proto-orthodox Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'll hold off on the lions, but you may be a candidate for this
Ive had this done to me several times, its not as pleasant as it sounds
Bring on the lesbians!
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Ok that makes sense,
So while judeo christianity does indeed drawn on previous mythologys from the past, It makes no sense whatsoever that the builders of GT could draw on mythology from the future.
If they are shadow calendars, then there is the common Sol Invictus aspect between this site and christianity
Göbekli Tepe: Older Than Stonehenge, Pyramids, Anything | TalkingSkull.com
So while judeo christianity does indeed drawn on previous mythologys from the past, It makes no sense whatsoever that the builders of GT could draw on mythology from the future.
If they are shadow calendars, then there is the common Sol Invictus aspect between this site and christianity
stonehart
Paranormal Adept
True enough back on topic .. It was just I failed to see the relevance of bringing Christian dogma into the subject as you can well understand.
Anyway yes a calendar is a good explanation as it makes sense.. as an aside is there any reason why such a place could not be duel purpose? Modern humans tend to compartmentalize things/places but neolithic man was not so clear cut.