Great interview

[tyder001]

Lets try one more time and then Good Gravy have fun with yo meatbot self. The physical body is a vehicle. Take the heart out and the body will cease. Take the liver out and the body will cease. However, the fact that I have looked back on my body is not answered by your simple illustration since that isn't what I'm talking about. As I said before, either I'm lying (which I'm not) or the brain and body die and you transition. Matter of fact you have admitted yourself that we only see a small part of realty. Anyway, none of this touches on what I have talked about. Nice try at hanging on to a worldview though.

 

[tyder001]

Robot: Cyborg or artificial intelligence. Limited to only input has no real experience or life outside of a coded program. Still very much science fiction at this time. Has no concept of objective good or evil. No real reason to worry about how or why they live. Just a machine.

Meatbot: See robot but covered in skin and organic material.

 

[tyder001]

I said in another post a few of the reasons I reject atheism as a way of life. It made some people mad but it's true. Now, some don't see it that way. No problem. My own wife doesn't see it that way. But, I do.

 

[trainedobserver]

removing the brain from any test animal you'd care to. All behavior and activity will cease.

Sigh, and that's the point dude. You don't think far outside the box do ya?

I didn't just fall of the turnip truck Steve. You can poo-poo medical science all you want to with your woo-woo and it all comes out to be meaningless in the end. The mind and body respond to therapies based on the principle that mind is generated by the brain and is dependent on the physical body for its well being and existence. If being unconvinced by vague notions with no practical application in the real world means I am not thinking outside of the box then so be it. I'm pretty comfortable with that.

 

[trainedobserver]

Robot: Cyborg or artificial intelligence. Limited to only input has no real experience or life outside of a coded program. Still very much science fiction at this time. Has no concept of objective good or evil. No real reason to worry about how or why they live. Just a machine.

Meatbot: See robot but covered in skin and organic material.

That absolutely zero relevance to anything I have had to say.

 

[tyder001]

Again, you misrepresent what I said. There are real honest hard researching folks who disagree with your concept of what the mind is. So, no you are not thinking outside the box and I'm not woo woo.
As for the turnip truck. I did come in one. But, I rode in the cab. I didn't fall off the back.

 

[trainedobserver]

I said in another post a few of the reasons I reject atheism as a way of life. It made some people mad but it's true. Now, some don't see it that way. No problem. My own wife doesn't see it that way. But, I do.

Oh now this about atheism? How absurd. It is totally irrelevant this conversation.

 

[tyder001]

That absolutely zero relevance to anything I have had to say.

You asked. I answered.

 

[tyder001]

Oh now this about atheism? How absurd. It is totally irrelevant this conversation.

and being a Christian or a muslim or an agnostic has nothing to do with the conversation on transhumanism. But, it hasn't stopped the silliness. Also, yes it does have something to do with the mind/brain problem. But, again I see what you did there.

 

[tyder001]

I'm not a scientist. Well, I am trained somewhat in the so called "soft sciences." But, I do know what I have experienced. Once you have an experience then it's hard to go back to the way you were. Same thing with my religion. It just stopped working for me. I can't go back to that safe little harbor. But, it has also made me stronger and less willing to concede the field just because I'm out numbered or don't yell as loud. Again, there has never been anything posted here that has proven the reality of us being simply meatbots. You can couch it and call it science all you want to. But, it's a funny thing to me that the scientist are good enough to consider as long as they agree with you. Penrose? Sheldrake? Pin Lomel? Quacks all of em I'm sure.

 

[trainedobserver]

Again, you misrepresent what I said. There are real honest hard researching folks who disagree with your concept of what the mind is. So, no you are not thinking outside the box and I'm not woo woo.
As for the turnip truck. I did come in one. But, I rode in the cab. I didn't fall off the back.

Brains as receivers of some consciousness that exists independently of them is woo-woo Steve. I don't care what nameless real hard working researching folks may or may not assert to the contrary. The proof is in the practical application of knowledge in medical science practiced in hospitals all over the world. Where has "the mind as receiver" produced anything that even remotely comparable.

 

[trainedobserver]

I'm not a scientist. Well, I am trained somewhat in the so called "soft sciences." But, I do know what I have experienced. Once you have an experience then it's hard to go back to the way you were. Same thing with my religion. It just stopped working for me. I can't go back to that safe little harbor. But, it has also made me stronger and less willing to concede the field just because I'm out numbered or don't yell as loud. Again, there has never been anything posted here that has proven the reality of us being simply meatbots. You can couch it and call it science all you want to. But, it's a funny thing to me that the scientist are good enough to consider as long as they agree with you. Penrose? Sheldrake? Pin Lomel? Quacks all of em I'm sure.

Meatbots is your thing not mine. I don't even know what you trying to actually communicate with that term. You are arguing against something you are apparently attributing to me (meatbot theory) that is totally bogus. You can name drop all you like, the fact that the brain is responsible for every aspect of the human personality is proven out by medical professionals treating patients each and every day.

 

[tyder001]

practical application of knowledge in medical science practiced in hospitals all over the world. Huhh?

Anyway, let me say this and I'll hush. Often I hear from folks on here about how the mulititude of witnessess that have seen ufo's or had encounters speaks for itself. Human experience and interaction has a certain amount of weight on it's on. This is true. Even hard science starts with observation. So, when I talk about researchers such as Rodger Penrose and their experience then it does carry some weight above "woo" Also, when I read of the many people who have had NDE's and OBE's and the reality (like it or not) or police departments using PSI and the government experimenting with it. When I think of my own self and the things I've seen and experienced then I have to say that "yes" it does matter. Otherwise, the witness to the ufo and the abuducties and the experiences with mind expanding drugs and the times when psi has indeed been replicated in a lab are just so much babble. So, yes go ahead and hold on to your materilism. I don't care. It doesn't diminsh me at all. But, to simply call human experience and my own time of looking back at my body woo? No way dude. You are very, very wrong. I can't simply put all this evidence and my own life experience on the altar of materilism. If you can the God bless and hand in there.

 

[tyder001]

brain is responsible for every aspect of the human personality is proven out by medical professionals treating patients each and every day.

How silly. I'll have to tell my doctor that one next time I see him. Also, I'll have to tell my health director at work to stop all that silly talk he does about his faith and his struggles and how it helped him through it. You make a lot of concrete statements. Oh well.

 

[tyder001]

Also, I never said you created the term meatbot. I wish I could claim it but I can't. That was a term I read on this forum a few years ago now. I can't remember who coined it. But, thanks for thinking it was me cause it's a damn clever term.

 

[tyder001]

Also, and then I'll really hush. I'm not likely (nor should you be and I know your not) to change my worldview and my inner life just because a person I don't know from Adam apart from an internet forum links to studies that are cherry picked to show he's right. We all do it. But, I've noticed that the so called "logical" folks are really good at simply skipping over the experiences and research and views that are a challenge to them. I sadly don't have that talent as much as I might have. I tend to think about it and question myself and dig a little deeper. But, at the same time I also cherry pick to some extent (pot meet kettle) because just like you and everybody else I wake up in my own skin everyday. Until the day I don't then I have to find my own way of dealing and work out my own path as honestly as I can with myself.

 

[trainedobserver]

...NDE's and OBE's and the reality (like it or not) or police departments using PSI and the government experimenting with it. When I think of my own self and the things I've seen and experienced then I have to say that "yes" it does matter. Otherwise, the witness to the ufo and the abuducties and the experiences with mind expanding drugs and the times when psi has indeed been replicated in a lab are just so much babble. So, yes go ahead and hold on to your materilism. I don't care. It doesn't diminsh me at all. But, to simply call human experience and my own time of looking back at my body woo? No way dude. You are very, very wrong. I can't simply put all this evidence and my own life experience on the altar of materilism. If you can the God bless and hand in there.

What you think I am saying is not what I'm saying. You hear whatever this "meatbot" thing you have in your mind rather than what I am actually trying to express. I have a working hypothesis about brain mind interaction that accounts or allows for NDEs, OBEs, and PSI phenomena. I just don't think they mean the same thing you do. You're not hearing what I'm saying.

 

[Voyager]

I'm not a scientist. Well, I am trained somewhat in the so called "soft sciences." But, I do know what I have experienced. Once you have an experience then it's hard to go back to the way you were. Same thing with my religion. It just stopped working for me. I can't go back to that safe little harbor. But, it has also made me stronger and less willing to concede the field just because I'm out numbered or don't yell as loud. Again, there has never been anything posted here that has proven the reality of us being simply meatbots. You can couch it and call it science all you want to. But, it's a funny thing to me that the scientist are good enough to consider as long as they agree with you. Penrose? Sheldrake? Pin Lomel? Quacks all of em I'm sure.

I have had experiences that lead me to believe there is more to consciousness than brain circuitry. There is no way to apply the scientific method to a subjective experience that involves conscious perception. We can only hope that we are more than biological machines. It would help if we knew for certain. Since our brains recreate the external reality we perceive, how can we be certain about the underlying nature of reality?

 

[tyder001]

Voyager, best post yet. imo.

 

[trainedobserver]

Since our brains recreate the external reality we perceive, how can we be certain about the underlying nature of reality?

Exactly. We cannot. All we can know is our individualized experience created by the organism (our bodies) as it reacts to stimuli from that underlying reality.