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Burnt State said:
if that were the case the world would look a lot differently both in your local downtown, across the planet and yes, even on T.V., certainly you wouldn't see people routinely kidnapping, raping, mutilating and killing girls.
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He said 99%. That's 99 out of 100 people. In reality, it's really fractions of a percent.

Do you really think that, globally, more than 1 out of every 100 people will kidnap, rape and/or mutilate somebody? Or even do significant harm to another person?

There are a lot of good people in the world. There are also a lot who are rather unpleasant to deal with, sure. But the amount of people who are actually actively "evil" is rather low.
 
marduk said:
We as a species seems to relish in hating ourselves.
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Yeah, no kidding. Whatever happened to a little pride in one's people?

It's kind of like Americans who spend whole boatloads of time talking about how bad America is. I'll be the first to tell you that this is not a perfect nation, but we for damn sure have a lot to be proud of.
 
There's always that troublesome distinction between what people do as individuals and how they behave as a group. If you believe the results of sociological experimentation on the subject of organized evil, most otherwise benign and compassionate individuals are quite capable of 'breaking bad' under certain circumstances.

The Stanford Prison Experiment: A Simulation Study of the Psychology of Imprisonment
Milgram experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On the other hand, a small but persistent percentage of humans seem genuinely devoid and incapable of innate moral or ethical restraint. Many of them are household names. Any of us could name at least a few offhand.

But I still think we may be ever so slowly creeping up the ladder of greater humanity as a species. Albeit in a kind of three rungs up and two down sort of way. And it's not as if the smart monkey came of age in a kind and gentle world. It's inherently red in tooth and fang. Whatever progress we've made in spite of that has not been easy.
 
I've read Pinker's work on the growing peaceful planet that is overall more civilized and less violent. However, the nuclear family behind closed doors has been allowed to perpetuate certain biases and hatreds that we still see at work on larger scales due to our collective indifference to the plights of others. So while you might not call the average citizen evil per se, the conflicts regarding sexism, racism, homophobia and classism continue to thrive in stressed first world societies.

And yes, I do believe that people are in fact born inherently good, definitely social, and in need of love and physical comfort in order to thrive. But, we continue to create a society that teaches its youth to hate themselves, to hate others who are different and to reject notions of defending differences. For me, any society that allows the suicide rates of youth to continue to rise and still reject the social pathways that could lead to less sexual assault of boys, girls and women, is a society that still hates, and accepts hatred as a way of being.

Some people think that Hooters is a fun place to party. I see it as a perpetuation of social attitudes that promote hatred, objectification and ultimately murder. Yes, I know, people will think me quite silly in making such statements, but I also think strip joints are ridiculous places to take your son to.

I also believe human beings are miraculous creatures whose creative, imaginative and scientific endeavors continue to stagger the mind and give one pause that we can do what we do, and that we do it so well. I am often in awe of humanity and our moments of jaw dropping brilliance and supreme compassion.

Still, 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, and with under reporting it's more like 1 in 2. Yes, I call that evil. We have problems we haven't really worked out yet nor do we seem to care to either.
 
Burnt State said:
Still, 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, and with under reporting it's more like 1 in 2.
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I've heard stats like that before, but I literally don't believe it. Likely what such studies define as "sexual assault" would differ from the other 95% of the world's definition. If you actually believe that 50% of the women in the world will be physically forced to commit a sexual act she doesn't want to commit at some point in her life, well I just don't know what to think about that.
 
SPX said:
I've heard stats like that before, but I literally don't believe it. Likely what such studies define as "sexual assault" would differ from the other 95% of the world's definition. If you actually believe that 50% of the women in the world will be physically forced to commit a sexual act she doesn't want to commit at some point in her life, well I just don't know what to think about that.
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Well feel free to do a search and pretty much most places that collect such stats on planet earth will return the 1 in 3 stat. Under reporting in this area is enormous. If I remember correctly it's somehing like only 6 in 100 sexual assaults are reported. Stats are even worse when it comes to men who have been sexually assaulted. If you really want to get depressed try researching how many boys and girls will be sexually assaulted before they hit adulthood.

One In Three Women | A global campaign to raise awareness about violence against women, domestic violence, sexual assault, human trafficking

stats_image.gif
 
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^^^ First off, if we're talking about sexual assault, I'm not even understanding the math here. If only 6 in 100 sexual assaults are reported, how is it 1 in 3 stat? Is there any logical conclusion here other than that that number was literally just made up?

Also, the link you posted says, "1 in 3 will be raped, beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused in their lifetime." Coerced into sex? Otherwised abused? You see, that's so vague as to be meaningless.

What do they consider being "coerced into sex"? If a girl is reluctant to have sex and someone smooth talks her until she's down for it, is that coersion by their definition? Or if a girl tries to stop a man from doing something and he pushes her out of the way, is that being "otherwise abused?"

I'm certainly not trying to say that women in the world don't have it hard in some cases, but this is EXACTLY why I think the 1 in 3 stat is ridiculous.
 
Coercion means drugs, alcohol (the #1 date rape drug and impossible to give consent when under the influence), threats of violence, physical force, mental coercion, blackmail etc.

When we label an assault as sexual assault we are separating it from general physical assault. So we are talking about everything from rape to inappropriate touching.

The stat is not ridiculous. It is a life burden for your mom, wife, sister, daughter and grandmother because raping the elderly and the bedridden is its own unique cohort in this discussion.

When we use 1/3 we mean that literally one in three women as based on current reports and surveys in sexual assault and rape crisis centers. When we say that these crimes are often unreported that means that the actual stat of sexual assault is in reality significantly higher. There is a lot of difficulty in naming accurate stats due to the incredible variance in communities and ages, whether or not it went to the police, age of victim, relationship to perpetrator (most rapists are either friends family or partners) etc. However, for the last twenty years that I have worked with the sexual assault and rape crisis center I have seen the generally accepted stat move from 1 in 4 to 1 in 3 and that's a globally accepted stat that most peope have difficulty in believing. However, if you listen to women, then they may share this reality with you. I'm saddened incredibly by the great number of women who have shared their story with me. The more you work on this subject matter the more stories you hear.

From wikiP: According to the American Medical Association (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime.[9][10]

The most common reasons given by victims for not reporting rapes are the belief that it is a personal or private matter, and that they fear reprisal from the assailant. A 2007 British government report says "Estimates from research suggest that between 75 and 95 percent of rape crimes are never reported to the police."[11]

So you can figure things out from there. These are not meaningless numbers. This is what defines our society, our human relationships, our families and the sexual dynamics of the populous. It's not something made up. It has lifelong consequences and implications for us all.
 
I still want to know what "otherwise abused" means, since that plays into the stat. At least in regard to the link you gave me, the 1 in 3 is not just sexual assault.

But you also missed my point about the math. If only 6 in 100 sexual assaults are reported, how can the number possibly be any more than 6 out of 100? And that's a maximum, assuming that none of those are new reports from someone who has already reported in the past.
 
What the under reporting stat means, as seen in the wiki quote, is that 95% of sexual assaults, generally speakng go unreported, as in the person assaulted told no one. Of the ones that do get reported, told to police, or a reporting agency i.e. someone entering into a sexual assault or rape crisis centre to seek help, these agencies compile the numbers and come up with the traditional numbers of 1 in 3 women being sexually assaulted. Again these are the numbers I'm used to and see in workshops across Ontario all the time.

Here's some better definitions for you from the Ontario Coalition of Rape Crisis Centers.

Sexual assault is any unwanted sexual act or sexual act where someone is unable to give consent:
  • Unwanted touching or grabbing
  • Forced oral sex
  • Rape
  • Being forced to touch or look at someone’s private parts (genitals)
  • It is sexual assault even if the person who does it is a person you know ‒ for example, your boyfriend, girlfriend, date, neighbour, co-worker, friend, or roommate.
Here's a different international site that looks specifically at the definition of sexual assault as someone who was raped or where rape was attempted or incomplete: their number is 1 in 6. They also have significant details breaking down their stats by age, gender, abuse at home etc. shocking and disturbing.

Lifetime rate of rape /attempted rape for women by race:1

All women: 17.6%
White women: 17.7%
Black women: 18.8%
Asian Pacific Islander women: 6.8%
American Indian/Alaskan women: 34.1%
Mixed race women: 24.4%

Who are the Victims? | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network
 
I had comments aimed at clarification of this issue. But discretion prevails. I learned long ago not to play with matches and gasoline ! ;)
 
SPX said:
I'd like to hear them.
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I have no observations not already offered in print by umpteen sources much smarter and better informed than myself. These issues tend to start as sincerely ethical, and too easily wind up as hotly legal, religious and political. Deeply serious topics of a personal nature lead to demands for clear cut answers. Not having any, I prefer to quietly stand down.

If that sounds like the easy way out on my part--it is !
 
Christopher O'Brien said:
..Sometimes some of you folks take things too literally. When I say ETs wouldn't want to visit this blah blah blah place, I'm using a form of dark humor to suggest that we ain't all we think we're cracked up to be. I'm suggesting that we are not as important as we'd like to think we are, that most of us are walking around in a state of waking coma, without a frickin clue. And yeah, you're right, I AM entitled to my opinion—sorry if it doesn't conform to yours.
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I agree completely Chris. I've been away from the forums for a while but I've detected a trend in the show openings of you guys having to spend way too much time defending such silliness. No one said a podcast contains no opinions even as fact-based as yours tries to be. I disagree with some of the things you've said over time in a myriad of issues but it's definitely not worth internet rants over. To each their own and if it offends so much, why listen to the show?

There's a terrible trend rolling through society of people not wanting to hear anything that offends them & using the internet to shut down things they disagree with. While Free Speech may not technically cover preventing that, it's sad people have nothing more going on in their lives than to rant online & wage PR wars against nothing more than opinions. Those that do that forget two important things: 1) those they are attacking for such puny reasons are human beings with feelings & souls of their own who don't deserve such bile in their lives and 2) where does the road of spending such time & efforts in campaigns to shut down everything you disagree with eventually lead to? The latter's definitely more scary when you consider the civilizations that have taken countless lives over such thin-skinned lunacy.
 
I don't think "we" would have to be "interesting" to another, more intelligent species looking to add to their database. We may be unique, or not. Either way, an ET race who have mastered the distances between stars surely would find all humanoid life forms of interest. Even if our society has dumbed itself down via smart phones and other technology.
 
Stagger Lee said:
I don't think "we" would have to be "interesting" to another, more intelligent species looking to add to their database. We may be unique, or not. Either way, an ET race who have mastered the distances between stars surely would find all humanoid life forms of interest. Even if our society has dumbed itself down via smart phones and other technology.
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I agree, and think we're way, way too hard on ourselves.

We have a sample size of exactly one, being ourselves. We can't assume we're super awesome, and we can't assume we're super stupid.

We have to assume we're average. Like, C- to C+ average. Not dumb enough to wipe ourselves out but not smart enough to be good to each other either. Like the kid that's recently learned to stop picking his nose in class and can write his name legibly but isn't exactly doing calculus, either.

Average. That's likely what we are.
 
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