I NEED YOUR HELP

[Rramsmate]

Where I live an underground water valve location was missing. I used my divining rod to find it, marking a rock and setting it 3 feet away. Scrying, divining, or drowsing are "ESP" ways of finding something hidden. Before my wife met me she had barely even heard of ESP. Once I found the valve located five feet underground, I went home and gave my wife a short introduction to using a divining rod. I took her to the area where the valve was lost and asked her to find it. She went right to it and I showed her the rock I marked with a 3 and an arrow pointing the way to the actual spot. My purpose for telling you this little story is that as you read this and I am asking you to scry for something special, don't give up on yourself just because you have never tried it. If there is no one around to teach you, go to You Tube and enter "scrying" into the search. Scrying for Beginners is a good start. Don't give up on my request; and indeed, ask others to help. This is important.

I am a lucid dreamer. I would say that I can manipulate 96% of my dreams. I can be in the dream, watch it as if in a theater, or join with someone in deciding how the dream should go. But there are some dreams that are unchanging over time and I know they are precognitive. There are some dreams that change over time but not due to any changes I want to make. Then I know I am monitoring something actually happening over time.

The dream I need help with is this latter type of dream, evolving over time and the sender of the dream is extremely saddened and worried the end is near. I believe it is a group of people and one of those people, capable of ESP in some form is trying to link to me. I assume there are others in this group also trying to reach out and be found. After ten years and the conditions slowly deteriorating I had to take notice of the dream. I only dream this connection for maybe fifteen minutes of dream time and only once every three or four weeks.

I will tell you what I know, but not my opinions of the information. These lost souls are definitely underground. The only contact with the surface is by two ways. At regular intervals large boxes of food show up in a dumbwaiter. Someone has to push a button to return the box to the surface when the meal is over and dishes and trash are collected. When someone dies, sometime during the next several hours four people show up wearing hazmat suits. Two of the people are for collecting the body onto a cart, and two of them carry weapons. I saw all these things in my snippets of dreams. Help me find these people.

I have scryed for the location of these sorry souls and keep coming up to just a general area. I cannot pinpoint where. I start with a map of the whole US and when I get to an area, I use the road maps of states to pin it down. Then I go to Google Earth. So far I just keep getting a general area with little out buildings far out in the woods. On Google there is no information what the buildings are and nothing seems to be underground.

Help me find these people and leave notes here to get a general summary for a location. I will add my guess when many guesses are in. There used to be a hundred souls in pain and now there are so few. Help me.

 

[pixelsmith]

I think I can help you. Go here: Psychiatrist in your area

 

[Rramsmate]

I think I can help you. Go here: Psychiatrist in your area

At a paranormal site the last opinion I would expect to see is one with such a blatant disregard for others honesty. I may have overestimated the clientele.

 

[Muadib]

At a paranormal site the last opinion I would expect to see is one with such a blatant disregard for others honesty. I may have overestimated the clientele.

Many (not all) of the users on this site examine the so called paranormal with a critical eye to see what does and does not hold water. Separating the signal from the noise is the shows mantra. As for dowsing...

Dowsing is the attempt to detect "hidden" things, such as water, gems, and gold, under various surfaces. It is most commonly associated with looking for water for drilling of wells. So called "water witches" make a living telling people where to drill for water wells. Practitioners use dowsing rods (usually made of wire or a forked twig, but let's face it, anything would do), to detect these hidden sources of wealth. The rod appears to move up and down outside of the practitioner's control. This is actually due to the Ideomotor effect where small muscle movements in the arms and hands cause the dosing rod to move up and down. These muscle movements can be completely involuntary but are often voluntary in the sense that anticipation on the part of the practitioner may cause them to increase in force and frequency. Much of the ideomotor effect is outside of direct conscious experience, so the practitioner doesn't realize he is doing it, though it is more than conceivable that some "water witches" know what's going on and are consciously defrauding people.
The technical term for dowsing is rhabdomancy (IPA - ˈræb.dəˌmæn.si). A dowser is a rhabdomantist. A dowsing rod is a rhabdom (pl. rhabdoms.)
Contents

[hide]

• 1 Random chance
• 2 "Modern" dowsing
• 3 Hilarity ensues
• 4 See also
• 5 External links
• 6 Footnotes

[edit] Random chance



Someone apparently dowsing (possibly for ley lines) at Long Meg stone circle, England.

Numerous controlled studies of dowsing (the first one being conducted in 1641[1]) have consistently demonstrated that it simply doesn't work; dowsers are no better than chance at detecting hidden metals or water. The continued support for dowsing is probably due to the phenomenon that if you dig down deep enough you will eventually find water. A dowser could point at random and the person could dig, and eventually hit water. This is nothing special about the dowser or the forked stick, coat hanger, or other "equipment" he or she is using.
One dowsing products company has also taken a more dangerous and sinister route with companies marketing special rods designed to detect explosives and land mines.[2]
[edit] "Modern" dowsing

For those who wish to believe that ersatz controls and rudimentary electronics make for a better dowsing rod, a number of entrepreneurs have developed dowsing rods with these sorts of fancy decorations called "long-range locators", enabling would-be dowsers to spend far more money with less unnecessary logic or common sense than they normally would on their equipment. Metal detector geek Carl Moreland reviews a number of them at GeoTech. Prices for such devices run into the thousands of dollars, with most units being little more than an assembly of naively-wired electronics and embarrassingly shoddy workmanship. Apparently, the Iraqi government has bought a ton of these for finding bombs in passing cars.[3]
[edit] Hilarity ensues

On the Channel Island of Jersey (not part of UK) a dowser recently cost a small fortune by convincing the Gov't that underground water was reaching the island's aquifer via subterranean rivers from France.

External links

• Dowsing from James Randi Educational Foundation
• Prof. Dawkins tests the topic

[edit] Footnotes

1. ↑ The Straight Dope: Does dowsing for water really work?
2. ↑ http://www.homelandsafetyintl.com/products/sniffex.asp
3. ↑ BBC Newsnight: Export ban for useless 'bomb detector'.
4. ↑ BBC Inside Out -

From : Dowsing - RationalWiki

I don't doubt that your intentions are good but I'm sorry to say that I don't believe that you or anyone else can find water or anything else by pointing a stick. Just my opinion and welcome to the forums.

 

[pixelsmith]

Lance, seriously? Since when are you that sensitive to others?

Let me come to the defense of Rramsmate. I know certain types of "dowsing" works in some instances. As a heavy equipment operator I used the technique for 20 years to find power lines, metal gas and water lines and other metallic objects. I could find a gas or power line very easily with 2 bent coat hangers. I perfected my skills by locating buried utilities BEFORE the official utility locator arrived at my job site. Many times my locations were closer than the utility operators locations.

 

[Muadib]

Lance, seriously? Since when are you that sensitive to others?

Let me come to the defense of Rramsmate. I know certain types of "dowsing" works in some instances. As a heavy equipment operator I used the technique for 20 years to find power lines, metal gas and water lines and other metallic objects. I could find a gas or power line very easily with 2 bent coat hangers. I perfected my skills by locating buried utilities BEFORE the official utility locator arrived at my job site. Many times my locations were closer than the utility operators locations.

Did you use a dowsing rod? If not, what was your technique? Edit: NVM missed the part about the coat hangers. I'm curious because I've never really met anyone who didn't think it was a bunch of nonsense, maybe I'm way off. Rramsmate is talking about dowsing for "souls" though, right? That brings in a whole other set of problems.

 

[pixelsmith]

My preferred method was 2 copper rods about 1/8 inch in diameter and 16 to 20 inches in length bent in a "L" shape. The smaller bend was about 5 inches long. I then slid 2 copper tubes about 3/16 in diameter on the smaller parts of the "L" and bent the very end over to keep them from falling off the handle and to create less resistance in my hands. I would hold them parallel to each other about 6 inches apart and nearly level to the ground. I would then walk towards the area where utilities were located and when over a metallic line the 2 longer ends would cross. I would mark the spot and come back from the other way to verify my first mark. I once found a small electrical wire feeding a parking lot light that was 10-12 feet down. I once used a piece of barbed wire and some "tie wire" to locate a 10 inch high pressure gas main.

 

[pixelsmith]

I have never tried it to find gold or lost souls.

 

[stonehart]

I think I can help you. Go here: Psychiatrist in your area

That is the Pixel I know and respect.. nice answer, sharp and to the point.

 

[Fcseven]

Negative and sarcastic replies lead to a bad community reputation.

 

[Polterwurst]

At a paranormal site the last opinion I would expect to see is one with such a blatant disregard for others honesty. I may have overestimated the clientele.

Yeah, I'm afraid you just might. I don't know if you have looked at a few other forum threads before starting your own, but I don't think so, or you would have expected some flak. You know, I count myself among the members in this forum who are more on the paranormal believer side, and still I think that scrying for underground bases (or whatever your post was about, I didn't really get the point of it, I'm afraid) sounds very much like self-delusion.

 

[stonehart]

At a paranormal site the last opinion I would expect to see is one with such a blatant disregard for others honesty. I may have overestimated the clientele.

That you are correct, you not only overestimated you completely missed the warning signs, not the best start to the forum.

I sit in the middle or neither a believer or a full blown skeptic, "I want to know, not believe" has been a motto for a while, but scrying for underground base?!!! that is way to much for me to swallow good sir.

You may want to try Godlike Productions, or even /x/ for like minded people to help you with this..
Here at the Paracast you are going to be challenged every step of the way to provided reasoned answers and theory's as to why you think what you are doing is valid and the methods you use.

 

[exo_doc]

Lance, seriously? Since when are you that sensitive to others?

Let me come to the defense of Rramsmate. I know certain types of "dowsing" works in some instances. As a heavy equipment operator I used the technique for 20 years to find power lines, metal gas and water lines and other metallic objects. I could find a gas or power line very easily with 2 bent coat hangers. I perfected my skills by locating buried utilities BEFORE the official utility locator arrived at my job site. Many times my locations were closer than the utility operators locations.

Pixel...you're $!&#ing me!?!? You? Have performed successful dowsing?
Please forgive my flabbergastedness but I had no idea you had dabbled in the dark arts (just kidding).

But I am suprised (no offense intended). I apologize for misjudging you. I have had one instance of succesful dowsing many years ago hunting for geodes in Arizona using a copper rod set similar to what you are describing that I bought at a mining and gem store. I've lost it over the years, and I've not tried my hand at dowsing since. But I do still have the geode.

 

[exo_doc]

Where I live an underground water valve location was missing. I used my divining rod to find it, marking a rock and setting it 3 feet away. Scrying, divining, or drowsing are "ESP" ways of finding something hidden. Before my wife met me she had barely even heard of ESP. Once I found the valve located five feet underground, I went home and gave my wife a short introduction to using a divining rod. I took her to the area where the valve was lost and asked her to find it. She went right to it and I showed her the rock I marked with a 3 and an arrow pointing the way to the actual spot. My purpose for telling you this little story is that as you read this and I am asking you to scry for something special, don't give up on yourself just because you have never tried it. If there is no one around to teach you, go to You Tube and enter "scrying" into the search. Scrying for Beginners is a good start. Don't give up on my request; and indeed, ask others to help. This is important.

I am a lucid dreamer. I would say that I can manipulate 96% of my dreams. I can be in the dream, watch it as if in a theater, or join with someone in deciding how the dream should go. But there are some dreams that are unchanging over time and I know they are precognitive. There are some dreams that change over time but not due to any changes I want to make. Then I know I am monitoring something actually happening over time.

The dream I need help with is this latter type of dream, evolving over time and the sender of the dream is extremely saddened and worried the end is near. I believe it is a group of people and one of those people, capable of ESP in some form is trying to link to me. I assume there are others in this group also trying to reach out and be found. After ten years and the conditions slowly deteriorating I had to take notice of the dream. I only dream this connection for maybe fifteen minutes of dream time and only once every three or four weeks.

I will tell you what I know, but not my opinions of the information. These lost souls are definitely underground. The only contact with the surface is by two ways. At regular intervals large boxes of food show up in a dumbwaiter. Someone has to push a button to return the box to the surface when the meal is over and dishes and trash are collected. When someone dies, sometime during the next several hours four people show up wearing hazmat suits. Two of the people are for collecting the body onto a cart, and two of them carry weapons. I saw all these things in my snippets of dreams. Help me find these people.

I have scryed for the location of these sorry souls and keep coming up to just a general area. I cannot pinpoint where. I start with a map of the whole US and when I get to an area, I use the road maps of states to pin it down. Then I go to Google Earth. So far I just keep getting a general area with little out buildings far out in the woods. On Google there is no information what the buildings are and nothing seems to be underground.

Help me find these people and leave notes here to get a general summary for a location. I will add my guess when many guesses are in. There used to be a hundred souls in pain and now there are so few. Help me.

I don't know about dowsing for underground bases, but you might look into Remote Viewing as a viable alternative search method if dowsing isn't working.

And we do have some uber skeptics that come across as harsh on here, I guess I'm inured to it by now. I'd encourage you to stick around though, but you have to have a thick skin. They really are a good group in general.

 

[Rramsmate]

Thank you for all the comment so far; however, their seems to be a communication problem. I gave an example of someone (my wife) opening her mind to something new and making it work. I was not particularly focused on the dowsing since it is trivial to the point of the request. I am not looking for lost souls as in dead people, but living breathing people in a tough condition. I had not thought to assume an underground holding cell to be a base of any kind, but that could be stonehart's intuitive view and the thought is greatly appreciated.

All I asked for, by whatever means is comfortable to you, is to try to find these many people being kept in terrible conditions.

"What screws us up the most in life is the picture in our head of how it's supposed to be." This page signature by Exo_Doc is far more true than most people think. I have done things in my reality that would certainly be pounced upon by some members here. And, no, I will not go to see a doctor of any sort. I am a healer and have no need. Now I assume someone will jump on that and say something derogatory. But it is all fun from my point of view. Do something new with your brain and smile.

 

[SRL+]

What your suggesting is similar to Ingo Swann, remote viewing an alleged underground bio lab, that was using humans in Russia. Swann’s impression was that the stench in that underground hell hole, was overwhelming. You wrote: “After ten years and the conditions slowly deteriorating I had to take notice of the dream”. After having read that statement I would suggest that you go back, (and in detail), write down everything, including drawing any imagery, as the dreams progressed, over those ten years. It is quite possible that there is something completely different going on, that demands your attention. By the way, there are forum members here who occasionally surface, that claim to have engaged in remote viewing for law enforcement. There is also, (believe it or not), at least one parapsychologist here as a forum member.

 

[Randall]

Where I live an underground water valve location was missing. I used my divining rod to find it ... I am a lucid dreamer. I would say that I can manipulate 96% of my dreams. I can be in the dream, watch it as if in a theater, or join with someone in deciding how the dream should go. But there are some dreams that are unchanging over time and I know they are precognitive. There are some dreams that change over time but not due to any changes I want to make. Then I know I am monitoring something actually happening over time ...

My old foreman at the City Works taught me how to make rods out of copper to locate buried cables. I actually got pretty good at it ( or so it seemed ). So I'm open to the idea of something like that because I've seen it demonstrated. However I've never experienced a lucid dream correspond to some actual remote event I had no knowledge about beforehand. That being said, I'm not closed to the possibility of telepathic communication either. In your case, I would suggest that if you believe you are being contacted telepathically while in a lucid dream state, perhaps you might try asking the senders to tell you who they are, where they are, and show you a map. That way you can verify whether or not anyone is actually missing and have some evidence to show those who can help. In the meantime, for people to take you seriously here, you need to provide evidence that your lucid dreams represent real events. If you are able to control them as claimed, let's setup a little experiment here. I'd be glad to help.

 

[Polterwurst]

We had a 5.000 Euro (originally 10.00 Deutschmark) Prize here in Germany, offered by a sceptical society, if someone could prove he has some ability not yet acknowledged by science. Don't know if it's still around. As far as I know, most if not all of the applicants were dowsers. And all of them failed to meet the criteria (I think they had to be right in at least 7 of ten trials, finding out under which of a number of targets there was a bucket of water). I watched a documentary about that once. The spokesperson of the jury of scientists seemed quite open about the possible outcome, but with some of the jury members it was quite obvious that they were expecting the applicants to fail miserably. One of them said he regarded himself as a trashman of science.

The dowsers themselves seemed in every case to be as fringy (in their quite desolate, unkempt looks) as they were absolutely sure to win the 10.000. When they failed (most of them with a hit rate of 3 to 5 I think), they seemed to be genuinely baffled. As far as I know, like the Randi million, no one has ever won the prize.

Maybe that's why I am a little frontloaded about dowsing. I just don't see how it should work and I haven't seen anything that would convince me. Of course, if someone could show me the opposite, I'd be the first one to acknowledge that. Heck, I'm sure that there are genuine phenomena not acknowledged by science. But it would really have to be watertight and right in front of my eyes.

 

[Randall]

We had a 5.000 (originally 10.00 Deutschmark) Euro Prize here in Germany, offered by a sceptical society, if someone can prove he has some ability not yet acknowledged by science ... When they failed (most of them with a hit rate of 3 to 5 I think), they seemed to be genuinely baffled. As far as I know, like the Randi million, no one has ever won the prize ...

I've heard of those prizes and there is a video about the Amazing Randi's challenge on dowsing somewhere ( I think it was Australia ). Back in the day when this old-country foreman taught me how to do it, I had never considered it as being something unscientific or otherwise. I just watched how he did it and then followed his example. I've never claimed to be able to locate water, just lines of some dense composition ( usually metallic ). A couple of times I did however find water near the lines. The problem with the skeptic's challenge is that the conditions set out by Randi aren't of that format, and according to the rules he is entitled to choose the format. In the video I saw, he chose very light plastic piping and filled only one section with water. If I were able to detect them at all, I'd detect them all, and I'm not sure I could tell which one had water. The last time I tried this was several years ago and the method still seemed to work the way it always had, but it did confuse me momentarily. I was attempting to show my son how it worked with the gas line in the back yard. Suddenly they swung into an odd position over a piece of ground where I knew nothing was buried. But then I looked up and noticed I was directly below our overhead power and communication lines and the rods were perfectly aligned to their direction. I haven't played with them since. BTW I made them out of some scrap solid core copper house wire. Seems to me anyone should be able to do this ... but I'm certainly no "expert".

 

[pixelsmith]

yes anyone should be able to do this. some people can't seem to get the hang of holding the rods loose enough or at the proper level. There are no special powers needed.