If There Are No Real UFOs — Why?

[Gene Steinberg]

So this article is not for those who believe in UFOs, or accept the possibility, but:

The Fermi Paradox - Wait But Why

What do you think?

 

[Wade]

,The thing that would bother me about this is that (if i have it right and if one goes for the Big Bang Theory) Whereas the universe once existed as a single dinky little piece of nano dust and went bang and the gases spewed out and formed all the bodies i,e, planets starts nebulas etc. those on the farthest reaches would be, by proxy, the oldest ones and therefore the most advanced...at least in terms of being around.

Would not that same scenario be applied to the good old milky way ? whenever i look at maps of where we are thought to be in our galaxy it looks like we are on the outer fringes and therefore among the eldest...not necessarily earth per say but our neck of the woods...therefore we should be well within the well travleled area and the inner most part of the galaxy which is full of gas and apparently one mother of a black hole would be like the grand frontier. unexplored and unknown.

 

[Randall]

So this article is not for those who believe in UFOs, or accept the possibility, but: The Fermi Paradox - Wait But Why What do you think?

There are assumptions made in the various possibilities discussed in the article that don't necessarily apply, particularly the reliance on the Kardashev scale as a measure of advancement. Personally, I tend to lean toward: "Possibility 10) We’re completely wrong about our reality." The "we" in Possibility 10 refers to those who tend to think that the universe that came out of the Big Bang is all there is. Perhaps those who are religious might add Heaven & Hell into the mix, but it's doubtful that they would see them as other universes, let alone that everything might be the creation of some vastly powerful processing system.

What do you think?

 

[boomerang]

Fermi's Paradox is a valid thought experiment, but based on too little hard data pertaining to key parameters, especially on mechanisms for origin of biological life. It seems anthropocentric--an extrapolation of what we believe humanity is and what humanity wants to become. If the UFO phenomenon is teaching us anything, it is that we simply do not understand the true nature of time and space. Add to that our inability to define the boundaries even of our own consciousness, and speculation about intelligent life elsewhere remains fascinating but tenuous at best. For that matter, physics suggests basic concepts of "elsewhere" and "everything" is more complex than previously thought.

Still, something in the Smart Monkey longs for company among the stars.

 

[Charlie Prime]

I love how the option they refuse to consider is the option they would refuse to consider if it were true:

Possibility 7) We are receiving contact from other intelligent life, but the government is hiding it. This is an idiotic theory, but I had to mention it because it’s talked about so much.

 

[PCarr]

So this article is not for those who believe in UFOs, or accept the possibility, but:

The Fermi Paradox - Wait But Why

What do you think?

There has been a lot written about the Fermi Paradox over the decades. Some of it good, much of it not too helpful. This article is just a summary.

The Fermi Paradox is a wonderful mental lens for helping us focus and clarify our thinking about some big questions, but it is NOT a good platform for grand pronouncements about the fate of intelligent life. As Daniel Cartin's recent work suggests, there are variables (known unknowns) we just know nothing about. There are also probably lots of unknown unknowns. The Fermi Paradox is just a sharp stick to motivate us to ask better questions.

 

[marduk]

I'm a fan of 3, 6, 8, and 9. The super predator one is utterly stupid to me, as is the "filtering." I mean, if it was gonna happen, it probably would have happened, and once you're past a type I civ, predating on another civilization is just stupid. Exploiting, maybe. But predating? Doesn't make sense to me. It already doesn't make sense for us to occupy other nations (we can't hold on to them and it's too expensive), why would it on a cosmic scale?

I mean logically if a society is type II or above, why colonize? Why not just harvest solar energy directly with local stars? Resource demands would be essentially meaningless.

I also think looking for ET with radio waves is well-intentioned, but would be like native americans trying to look for europeans by scanning the horizon for smoke signals. We're already outliving the radio broadcast era, and we're one century into it. Tightbeam laser, fibre optics, etc is already taking over.

I think the zoo hypothesis is interesting, because it's exactly what we might do. Look at Star Trek.

And 9 speaks a lot to me. Look at our response the the UFO phenomenon. Utter bafflement with a side order of lunacy.

 

[marduk]

I love how the option they refuse to consider is the option they would refuse to consider if it were true:

Why?

I, for one, think it's an extremely stupid idea too.

I mean I'm open to small subgroups or factions or interested individuals... perhaps a data collection system (we all know how much they like those) but I think they're more baffled than anyone judging by their (lack of) response.

I just don't buy that there's a magic UFO division that "is in the know" or a speed dial button in the pentagon for a black-budget UFO org.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Why?

I, for one, think it's an extremely stupid idea too.

I mean I'm open to small subgroups or factions or interested individuals... perhaps a data collection system (we all know how much they like those) but I think they're more baffled than anyone judging by their (lack of) response.

I just don't buy that there's a magic UFO division that "is in the know" or a speed dial button in the pentagon for a black-budget UFO org.

Maybe not a government in the know but to me, almost certainly there has to be some group at least keeping an eye on things, perhaps helping perpetuate the status quo of UFOs being silly etc and quite possibly stepping in when things are really in danger of 'getting out'
The problem is what the make-up of such a group would be and how it could continue through the decades without official oversight?

 

[marduk]

Maybe not a government in the know but to me, almost certainly there has to be some group at least keeping an eye on things, perhaps helping perpetuate the status quo of UFOs being silly etc and quite possibly stepping in when things are really in danger of 'getting out'
The problem is what the make-up of such a group would be and how it could continue through the decades without official oversight?

Exactly.

And how, exactly could such a group remain perfectly secret and be 100% awesome when surrounded by the idiocy that Snowden is bringing to light?

 

[boomerang]

Maybe not a government in the know but to me, almost certainly there has to be some group at least keeping an eye on things, perhaps helping perpetuate the status quo of UFOs being silly etc and quite possibly stepping in when things are really in danger of 'getting out'
The problem is what the make-up of such a group would be and how it could continue through the decades without official oversight?

It's a real "mind messer. " We have credible reports of credentialed individuals from "the government" showing up to confiscate radar and photographic evidence and then ordering witnesses to stay quiet. We also have credible mention of individuals stationed at military bases as designated "UFO officers". But beyond that, it all seems to vanish in a puff of smoke.

 

[Burnt State]

It's a real "mind messer. " We have credible reports of credentialed individuals from "the government" showing up to confiscate radar and photographic evidence and then ordering witnesses to stay quiet. We also have credible mention of individuals stationed at military bases as designated "UFO officers". But beyond that, it all seems to vanish in a puff of smoke.

Evidence confiscated may only mean that those in possession of said evidence may not have the clearance for what that data represents. What that means - who knows, could be aliens, could be intelligent balls of light, or could be test craft? The only thing's for certain is that we are in fact seeing evidence of a control system at work, a very human one.

 

[marduk]

Evidence confiscated may only mean that those in possession of said evidence may not have the clearance for what that data represents. What that means - who knows, could be aliens, could be intelligent balls of light, or could be test craft? The only thing's for certain is that we are in fact seeing evidence of a control system at work, a very human one.

I could see a "hall of embarrassment" where the stuff gets stored & ignored.

I mean, they may check to see if it's the latest MiG, Chinese drone, etc, and if not, just file it away or destroy it.

Seems more likely to me.

 

[mike]

Brin's Great Silence is a must read on this topic imo

1983QJRAS..24..283B Page 283

 

[stonehart]

Out on a limb here but as this is all theoretical anyway here I go.

We all know the universe is big.. that is an understatement as there really is no word to describe how big it is and even numbers are rendered almost meaningless when you try to comprehend how big it all is.

So just maybe we are the first technological species in our galaxy, but then consider the number of galaxy's out there......... My point is technological life may be very very rear but when you take into consideration the immense size of the universe I find it very hard to "believe" we are the only ones.

I like boomerangs take on it "Fermi's Paradox is a valid thought experiment, but based on too little hard data pertaining to key parameters, especially on mechanisms for origin of biological life."

Anyway just musings.

 

[Wade]

maybe we have to get out of our mindset that any visitors would have a physical 3D prescence to them. if there was such thing as a prime directive and if one really wanted to observe or study another civilization what better way to do it then as a form of astral travel or even as an avatar.

Maybe your neighbor..or even your mailman...is not who or what you think they are

 

[stonehart]

maybe we have to get out of our mindset that any visitors would have a physical 3D prescence to them. if there was such thing as a prime directive and if one really wanted to observe or study another civilization what better way to do it then as a form of astral travel or even as an avatar.

Maybe your neighbor..or even your mailman...is not who or what you think they are

Personally if we are being observed I would expect the odd probe and observation satellites.. much like we do with Mars etc .. but of a far higher tech level.

 

[marduk]

Personally if we are being observed I would expect the odd probe and observation satellites.. much like we do with Mars etc .. but of a far higher tech level.

In 1-200 years we may be able to produce smart nanodust that would do the trick, be ubiquitous, and all but undetectable.

 

[mike]

For me this is the most interesting angle to look at the UFO enigma.

Ppl have seen these craft, the numbers indicate the universe should be teeming with life, our own science is starting to say FTL drives and wormholes are possible.

So why are they being coy ?

The answer to that question is the big one imo, im satisfied they are here. The real question is why are they behaving this way.

The possibilitys are varied and sometimes poles apart in potential answers to that one.

As ive stated before the post biological hypothesis ticks a number of boxes for me personally

 

[SRL+]

For whatever its worth, I’ve been following a few philosophers of science who propose that there may be areas of the unknown, unobservable universe that follow entirely different physical laws than ours. One philosopher in particular has placed forth a theory that he believes is testable. This theory suggests that woven into the fabric of our universe may reside a mechanism that is able to learn over time, in remembering the physical properties of newly developed materials which have never been introduced into our universe. He went on to speculate that if this theory were to be actually proven, there may then be ways of detecting civilizations that exist or have existed anywhere in which our particular physical laws apply.

I guess what I’m getting at here is that even though Hart-Fermi sounds most reasonable, and UAPs seem to defy our particular laws of physics, there may be another possible explanation for these sightings. And that is because these UAPs may emerge from an area of the unknown, unobservable universe where the physical laws may be different than ours. In saying all of this, NARCAP, or anyone else that we know of for that matter, has ever documented a UAP both entering, and then exiting our atmosphere. I also realize that this comes as no great comfort to the true UAP experiencer.