If these "Beings" are so advanced

[agsouthtexas]

Why are there "Human Mutilations" ? Why do "they" need our parts? If were so inferior to "them", then why are we so important?

I dont understand that concept.

Also, the STS-48 video, why does that vehicle that was seen HAVE to be extraterrestrial? What if it belonged to another country? Russia,China, Japan, etc.

Just a couple of things that I was wondering about after listening to the Ecker Show.

 

[Stillborn]

Why are there "Human Mutilations" ? Why do "they" need our parts? If were so inferior to "them", then why are we so important?

I dont understand that concept.

Also, the STS-48 video, why does that vehicle that was seen HAVE to be extraterrestrial? What if it belonged to another country? Russia,China, Japan, etc.

Just a couple of things that I was wondering about after listening to the Ecker Show.

I don't know if aliens are behind human mutilations. If they are, then maybe you always need material from the universe. Maybe they aren't advance to the point that they can create something out of nothing. Maybe it's easier to take than create.Or, in order to create, you still need to harvest something. Maybe the person died during the abduction and they decided to run biological tests on the body instead of letting it go to waste. In short, who knows? I see no reasoning in assuming that aliens wouldn't want something from us. That's different than need. But I also don't see why advanced beings wouldn't need something either. Why make the assumption they wouldn't? Being advanced is putting the universe to use, not-not needing it.

As advanced as humans are (at least some of us) we still play in the garden with veggies. I'm not suggestion aliens eat us by the way.

As for STS 48, guess you'd have to ask Don. The vast majority of that vid can be explained away. To me at least.

 

[Schuyler]

I think the idea that the Alien Guys (tm) are 'advanced' is a fallacy. You often hear people say something like this: "The Aliens may be so far advanced from us that they regard us on the level that we regard ants." That's a paraphrase. If someone here ACTUALLY said that, I'm not picking on you. It's just a coincidence. In any case, I don't know of any ants who are going around talking about E=MC(2). For better or worse, whether we all fully understand it or not, we do. We have our sights set on the stars. We are not ants.

Nor are the Alien Guys geniuses. They may have advanced technology (more below), but it does not follow that they are a race of super-intelligent beings. I'm technologically incapable of building the car I drive. They may have been given the keys to the saucers and have learnd how to drive, but that doesn't follow that they understand about their own advanced technology any more than the majority of us do. From their alleged behavior, they seem somewhat stupid at times and certainly do not come across as intellectual superiors.

And concerning their technology, that doesn't seem so hot either. They can't even keep their saucers in the air. You mean to tell me a thunderstorm can knock them out of the sky? Or a primitive WWII-era radar beam? C'mon, our DC-3 airplanes could stay up in those conditions; why can't a saucer? Then they crash to smithereens and all these little bodies fall out. What's up with that?

And what's with their interest in our atomic weapons? If they're from somewhere else, who cares if we blow ourselves up? It might be in their best interests because we wouldn't be sniffing at their doorstep any longer.

Of course, they might be from here and might be from some sort of different dimension and our weapons going off might affect their corner of the Earth as well, so they might have a vested interest in keeping us from using them. They may have figured out this inter-dimensional things where we haven't, but that doesn't mean they are especially intelligent. Their bureaucracies might be worse than ours.

Of course, i don't know that for sure.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

I would bet we have all had our share of 'dumb' tourists, you know the ones... they get off the plane in Canada in July, and wear fur coats, looking for eskimoes kissing...

Why can't other species be the same? If they were so advanced, why would they need to contiuously abduct humans and check them out biologically?

perhaps an answer to that may be they are students, and we are their version of the frog dissection class...

 

[Schuyler]

I would bet we have all had our share of 'dumb' tourists, you know the ones... they get off the plane in Canada in July, and wear fur coats, looking for eskimoes kissing...

You guys have runways up there? I thought Eskimos just rubbed noses. I am not happy that you have destroyed my well-nourished stereotype. As for the fur coats, with Global Warming we won't need them any more and Canada will become the grain breadbasket for the world. It's the FROG thing that gives me shivers.

 

[Stillborn]

I think the idea that the Alien Guys (tm) are 'advanced' is a fallacy. You often hear people say something like this: "The Aliens may be so far advanced from us that they regard us on the level that we regard ants." That's a paraphrase. If someone here ACTUALLY said that, I'm not picking on you. It's just a coincidence. In any case, I don't know of any ants who are going around talking about E=MC(2). For better or worse, whether we all fully understand it or not, we do. We have our sights set on the stars. We are not ants.

Nor are the Alien Guys geniuses. They may have advanced technology (more below), but it does not follow that they are a race of super-intelligent beings. I'm technologically incapable of building the car I drive. They may have been given the keys to the saucers and have learnd how to drive, but that doesn't follow that they understand about their own advanced technology any more than the majority of us do. From their alleged behavior, they seem somewhat stupid at times and certainly do not come across as intellectual superiors.

And concerning their technology, that doesn't seem so hot either. They can't even keep their saucers in the air. You mean to tell me a thunderstorm can knock them out of the sky? Or a primitive WWII-era radar beam? C'mon, our DC-3 airplanes could stay up in those conditions; why can't a saucer? Then they crash to smithereens and all these little bodies fall out. What's up with that?

And what's with their interest in our atomic weapons? If they're from somewhere else, who cares if we blow ourselves up? It might be in their best interests because we wouldn't be sniffing at their doorstep any longer.

Of course, they might be from here and might be from some sort of different dimension and our weapons going off might affect their corner of the Earth as well, so they might have a vested interest in keeping us from using them. They may have figured out this inter-dimensional things where we haven't, but that doesn't mean they are especially intelligent. Their bureaucracies might be worse than ours.

Of course, i don't know that for sure.

I've heard Budd Hopkins say that we really don't know if they are way advanced than us. I don't disagree with that. When pushed I hazard a guess that they seem *at least* 100 yrs ahead (in terms of human timeline). But that's close in the cosmic scheme of things. I wouldn't be surprised if they are much more advance, but it's hard to know. Hard for me to know at least.

Also, with their "big heads" many think they have bigger brains. Not necessarily so, since they are often reported to have "relatively" big heads, compared to their small bodies. Could be around the same size as a human adult brain, just on a smaller body. This assumes that brain size matters in intelligence like many scientist seem to think btw.

 

[Schuyler]

This assumes that brain size matters in intelligence like many scientist seem to think btw.

It does, kind of, but it can fool you. Our (Homo Sapiens sapiens) brain size averages a little over 1400cc. Interestingly enough, Neanderthal's brain size averages over 1500cc, though this may be a statistical artifact because we don't have many Neanderthal skulls to measure. But Leonardo da Vinci's brain was 900cc, and I don't know anyone who wouldn't call him a genius. This is pretty close to the average brain size of Homo Erectus, who no one accuses of being a genius, but he did have fire and was pretty good on the soccer field. Good point about brain size relative to the body, though.

 

[Stillborn]

It does, kind of, but it can fool you. Our (Homo Sapiens sapiens) brain size averages a little over 1400cc. Interestingly enough, Neanderthal's brain size averages over 1500cc, though this may be a statistical artifact because we don't have many Neanderthal skulls to measure. But Leonardo da Vinci's brain was 900cc, and I don't know anyone who wouldn't call him a genius. This is pretty close to the average brain size of Homo Erectus, who no one accuses of being a genius, but he did have fire and was pretty good on the soccer field. Good point about brain size relative to the body, though.

I'm often impressed by birds and they have small brains.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

intellectual intelligence does not guarantee 'intelligence'...

so, GENERALLY speaking - as there are always exceptions to any rule -

a computer geek is often isolated within their particular world, where they are very conversant with any and all things relating to circuits. Put many of them in social settings, and they are completely out of their comfort zone and unable to suss out why humans act the way they do.

a genius engineer may be dumb as hammers when it comes to politics, or earth sciences.

a musical genius may have an aptitude for mathematics or languages, but be absolutely useless in medicine.

so, my point is, you can be advanced in one set of knowledge, but woefully ignorant in another. I am not at all surprised another species would be curious about us, look how 'intelligent' we are, and we still insist on studying animals in cages... go figure...

 

[AnnetteMarie]

... I thought Eskimos just rubbed noses. ....

we both need correcting....

"...In June of 1977, during the meeting of newly formed Inuit Circumpolar Conference in Ukpiarvik (Barrow Alaska), the delegation from Inuit homelands from Alaska, Greenland and Canada, adopted a resolution for Inuit to be known officially as INUIT. "

I should never have used eskimoes and will make an effort to use the correct term - Inuit - meaning 'the people'.

esquimew (sp?) is a native name for them, which is where 'eskimo' originated, and it means eaters of raw meat.

the more you know....

we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[CapnG]

The motivations of alien beings cannot be fathomed, therefore any judgements we may render regarding their actions (advanced vs primitive, inferior vs superior, etc) are invalid.

 

[Astroboy]

I would guess that there is no such thing as a perfect technology that can never fail regardless of how advanced it is.

Archimedes would laugh at us and say,"After 2,000 years you guys can't build a plane that doesn't fall out of the sky? And what is this Blue Screen of Death?"

Whether aliens are 200 years ahead or 2 million years ahead as long as they depend on artificial mechanical technologies to travel or accomplish tasks they would probably experience problems on occasion. Also as long as technologies are controlled by biological creatures that can make arbitrary and faulty decisions there will always be problems with their use.

There are also cases that advanced technologies can be defeated because people have not considered or abandoned primitive technologies. For instance, certain body armor including Kevlar can be penetrated by knives and arrows because it was designed for bullets. We certainly have a hell of a time tracking terrorists and criminals when they go off the "grid". The Unibomber eluded police for decades because he lived in a shack with no electricity, had no credit cards, and used no telephones. Same tactics are used by Al Queda to hide its senior members. Billion dollar satellites rendered useless when a target uses couriers for messaging. Meanwhile the terrorists already know all the flight paths of every spy satellite.

 

[Gen]

It does, kind of, but it can fool you. Our (Homo Sapiens sapiens) brain size averages a little over 1400cc. Interestingly enough, Neanderthal's brain size averages over 1500cc, though this may be a statistical artifact because we don't have many Neanderthal skulls to measure. But Leonardo da Vinci's brain was 900cc, and I don't know anyone who wouldn't call him a genius. This is pretty close to the average brain size of Homo Erectus, who no one accuses of being a genius, but he did have fire and was pretty good on the soccer field. Good point about brain size relative to the body, though.

My understanding (gleaned from whoknowswhere) is that it's not necessarily the size of the brain-meat, it's the number of active connections between the neurons. A big brain offers more potential room for circuitry, but it doesn't mean anything's necessarily connected.

I may be using the words "neurons" and "connections" metaphorically here, as I only know what I'm talking about in the most general sense, if at all.

 

[Kevin Daly]

I think either aliens are not responsible for human mutilations, or they do it to drive us crazy, or they do it for kicks.
Maybe they're alien cultists (we got waaay crazier as we evolved, so why not them?).

I'll go out on a limb and piss everybody off by saying I also think the phenomena which can plausibly be ascribed to aliens are not necessarily evidence of being particularly advanced (I mean technologically - there's no evidence whatsoever of any particularly elevated ethical thinking).
I think a lot of what is and has been reported for centuries is something much stranger than aliens. Perhaps just reality farting, if you like. But I also think it's perfectly plausible that in addition a generation ship arrived in our solar system in the early 20th century, possibly carrying refugees who may have lost scientific knowledge over the centuries of travel for all I know...think of how much changes if they were in relatively small numbers with no way of returning home. And think of what knowledge and practical experience could be lost by a culture that spent a few centuries in deep space.

for instance, perhaps the answer to the question "if they're so advanced, why did they have all those crashes?" is that they no longer had any direct knowledge of flying in a planetary atmosphere, and it took time to learn and to adjust their technology (perhaps Foo Fighters were probes recording the flight characteristics of terrestrial aircraft). The triangles might be the result of such study and adaptation.

Oooh I like that idea...they reverse-engineered our technology

If such a people or a faction were carving up the locals, it could simply be crude research or even human sacrifice.

What I'd like to believe is that we're dealing with a civilisation that can bend space and time to cross the void - because it would mean that that's possible and we might one day be able to do it ourselves. But just because I want that to be true is no reason to believe it is.

 

[Kevin Daly]

PS. I'm guessing that such a generation ship if it existed would look like an asteroid, which we wouldn't have been able to detect at the time of arrival, and which by now would be um, parked somewhere in the solar system looking inconspicuous and doing an excellent "I'm just a rock, nothing to see here" impression.

(The reason being that if you were going to spend all that time in interstellar space you'd need to be heavily shielded, so a hollowed-out asteroid sounds like a good idea. But then I'm just making it up as I go along)

 

[Schuyler]

Good idea about the hollowed out asteroid. I've read SF where both Juno and Deimos were put in that category.

In terms of all our speculation being invalid, I don't think so. It is not necessary for us to fathom ther intentions, only to experience the results of those intentions. Otherwise we are stuck in the trap of cultural relativism. From an anthropological perspective it makes a certain sense because you don't want to go into another culture and start judging them by your own standards. An anthropologist is supposed to describe and analyze--not judge. However, this percept was designed as a guiding axiom for anthropological fieldwork and has been turned into a liberal credo.

Taken to the extreme this results in condemning someone for daring to judge another ethical system by stating that doing so is itself unethical. As a result we have nowhere to go and people decide if that's true, no one has the right to judge them either, so they can therefore do anything they want. They become their own moral authority. I think it's fair to say that this doesn't work too well either. If you've ever been a parent to a teenager, you know what I'm talking about.

Ethics, the idea of 'doing what is right,' is something we'd better get back to doing if we want civilization to survive at all. If we really don't want to do that as a culture, if we want to shake off the shackles of civilization in favor of 'freedom' from the tyranny of laws, fine. I've got my AR-15 in the closet. I surely hope it doesn't come to that. I'd just as soon it stay there permanently.

Of course, it's a big IF as to wheher alien abduction, mutilations, etc. are true at all, but to take these incidents as a given for the sake of argument, we do have the right to judge them because we did not give them our consent. For them to do these sorts of things is just as unethical as Western Civilization rolling over North America killing everyone and everything in sight, the Roman Empire rolling over Judaea, Germany, and England, the Muslims marauding into Spain, Hitler killing 8 million Jews, or Australians shooting Tasmanians for sport.

I don't care what their intent is. If it's to build an Aryan race, I say that's invalid. If it's to convert everyone to Allah, I say that's invalid. If it is to terrorize us for sport, I say that's invalid. And I intend to fight back as best I can with whatever resources at my disposal in an attempt to stop them from their behavior, whether I can fathom their intentions or not. And that's valid.

 

[CapnG]

PS. I'm guessing that such a generation ship if it existed would look like an asteroid, which we wouldn't have been able to detect at the time of arrival, and which by now would be um, parked somewhere in the solar system looking inconspicuous and doing an excellent "I'm just a rock, nothing to see here" impression.

That's Stieber's concept in "The Greys". Billions of them are en route to earth in a mini-Dyson Sphere roughly 1000km in diameter.

 

[mike]

the idea has been around a long time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Moon_Theory

to me its always made sense, we use "blinds" to study animals in the wild ourselves.

 

[Stillborn]

That's Stieber's concept in "The Greys". Billions of them are en route to earth in a mini-Dyson Sphere roughly 1000km in diameter.

Whoa. I listened to that crap. Don't recall that. Greys the book where the alien pissed on the floor? Or the "fiction" book? One of many? Ok, was "the Greys pseudo-fiction" according to Whitley is what I should ask. It gets confusing for me at times. I recall some of his stuff being "pseudo-fiction" can't recall if the Grey's is one of them.

 

[CapnG]

It's "fiction" and it's all right here:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

I'm amazed Spielberg hasn't sued him, it rips off "Taken" on so many levels it's not funny. Otherwise it's just a random hodge-podge of different elements from within UFOlogy. I could've written this story and I can't write for shit.