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In defence of Doc Greer

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I've put far more effort into things a lot less worthwhile, just like anyone else who has ever done much of anything.

Not sure that makes much sense. I could understand, "far more effort into things a lot more worthwhile." as being contributory to "much of anything" ( whatever that's supposed to mean ). Not that the information isn't interesting and perhaps even helpful in preventing a loss for people who would otherwise be taken in, but before you use the word "fraud" you might want to make sure you have the evidence. Has Greer ever been convicted of fraud? Has he even been charged or investigated by the authorities? Has he been assessed by any mental health professional as being "functionally delusional"? Or is he just an opportunist who preys on the beliefs of the uninformed who are free to maintain those beliefs at their own peril ( caveat emptor )? I'm neither defending nor condemning him in this post, just asking questions.
 
What about the 'alien body in Ice' ? After I read that story, I safely disposed it in the mental toilet. Any news I might not have caught ?
 
Like I told him three times back in '94 (in front of some of his earliest well-heeled fan/socialites, I should add) "Steven, your message is more important than YOU are..." So, in hindsight, the answer to your question, IMHO -- EGO -- plain and simple...

If it's only ego, that implies ( however misguided it may be ) that he really believes in what he's doing. But it has been suggested by others here that there are issues that go beyond that ( like fraud ). How do we reconcile those two points of view? Is it really fraud if we honestly believe in what we are trying to do and just have a big ego to go along with it? I don't think so. He'd have to know that what he's doing is morally questionable or wrong or illegal and do it anyway for whatever reason. Do you think he's crossed that line?
 
Well, honestly, what else is it?

A person can have an inflated ego and still know the difference between right and wrong. If he's just out there playing the part of some kind of guide to what he believes is a legitimate attempt to contact aliens, he's no more "out there" than any other contactee, and we can all have our opinions, unfavorable or otherwise. But what has he really done that's illegal ( except maybe getting caught doing it inside a public park without a license )? On the other hand, if he secretly believes that what he's doing is ripping off fools for their hard earned savings ... we have a whole other issue to consider.
 
His message is nonsense, the idea that aliens (if they're really here, which is one hell of a hard case to prove in the first place imo) are all friendly because they haven't blown up the planet or subjugated us through the use of physical violence is simply ludicrous. A truly advanced intelligence, if it meant us harm, isn't going to engage us in some planetary war of attrition, it would be much easier for them to use their superior intelligence and technology to simply manipulate us from behind the scenes, suppressing all evidence of their presence and going out of their way to behave in a non logical / nonsensical manner to minimize the chance of anyone believing that their presence is a reality. How would we be able to fight back against such a plan? Whereas, if they invaded, at the very least we could make this planet completely uninhabitable for a few centuries through the use of nuclear weapons as a last resort. Not to mention they would be destroying the only resource we have here they couldn't get elsewhere, the only thing that would mean anything to an advanced civilization capable of interstellar flight, human beings. Something similar may be going on as we speak, who knows? The problem is, we'll never get to the bottom of the UFO/alien mystery with people like Steven Greer polluting the evidence pool with their ridiculous new age, hippy idealist bullshit.
 
A person can have an inflated ego and still know the difference between right and wrong. If he's just out there playing the part of some kind of guide to what he believes is a legitimate attempt to contact aliens, he's no more "out there" than any other contactee, and we can all have our opinions, unfavorable or otherwise. But what has he really done that's illegal ( except maybe getting caught doing it inside a public park without a license )? On the other hand, if he secretly believes that what he's doing is ripping off fools for their hard earned savings ... we have a whole other issue to consider.

We have, I think. Any 'pseudo-cult' wanting me to pay in the first place...yep. If I am ever over there, I'll buy the highest powered flashlight ever and freshen up on my morse code. ;)
 
... The problem is, we'll never get to the bottom of the UFO/alien mystery with people like Steven Greer polluting the evidence pool with their ridiculous new age, hippy idealist bullshit.

Interesting perspective, "polluting the evidence pool". I think YouTube has already done that sufficiently to make Greer's contribution seem like a drop in the bucket. At the rate Greer's going he'll just end up filed into ufology history somewhere between Adamski and Meier. It doesn't even appear he'll ever get as far as Vohillon ( Rael ) who has his own official religion based in "Ufoland" and has historically spent most of his time checking out the recruits and playing race car video games. But Greer? Unless he actually does make contact we don't have to worry much about him making much of splash in the evidence pool, certainly not like the MJ-12 debacle did. But I like that you're concerned about the quality of research. It shows you have a genuine and constructive interst in ufology and we need as much of that as we can get.
 
Interesting perspective, "polluting the evidence pool". I think YouTube has already done that sufficiently to make Greer's contribution seem like a drop in the bucket. At the rate Greer's going he'll just end up filed into ufology history somewhere between Adamski and Meier. It doesn't even appear he'll ever get as far as Vohillon ( Rael ) who has his own official religion based in "Ufoland" and has historically spent most of his time checking out the recruits and playing race car video games. But Greer? Unless he actually does make contact we don't have to worry much about him making much of splash in the evidence pool, certainly not like the MJ-12 debacle did. But I like that you're concerned about the quality of research. It shows you have a genuine and constructive interst in ufology and we need as much of that as we can get.

Hmmm, I don't know if I can agree with you on this one. I think Greer wields a lot more influence than you give him credit for. Just look at the information posted earlier, I guarantee you Billy Meiers little cargo cult isn't taking in close to 1 million dollars per year in funding and donations like the CSETI people are, not to mention the other pies Greer has his sticky little fingers jammed into like clean energy, zero point energy, and the $200,000 he was able to raise for his documentary through Kickstarter and his Sirius site. Plus, there's the whole Disclosure project and, to give him a little bit of credit, that brought a lot of people into this field. Not everyone is going to follow the rabbit hole down as deep as you or I. We're in a place on this forum that, at least in my opinion, people get to because they're sick of all the ball fondling (so to speak) that goes on in the UFO and paranormal community. Not everyone gets to that point, some are content to just believe whatever it is they're told or to follow whoever it is that has the largest following.

I think it can be demonstrated that Steven Greer has a very large following in the UFO community, not to mention the New Age movement. The two are very connected these days, which you already know if you've been to any UFO conventions in the last 10 or so years, and I'm sure you probably have. All of this contributes to the pollution of the pool of evidence, especially among people who are just getting into the subject. People aren't going to search for answers when they think they've already found them, and that's one of the worst things that Greer does, he gives people false hope and false knowledge. Not to mention the effect his batshit crazy antics and point of view has on the mainstream perception of the subject. Stuff like that is why serious science minded individuals and groups that fund science research won't touch this subject with a 10 foot pole. It's probably true that the more rational, science minded researchers in this field have written Greer off a long time ago, but this field is about more than just the hardcore researchers, there's a lot of angles that need to be considered when assessing the damage that Greer and those like him are doing to this field. I've listed a few in this little rant, but there are many, many more.
 
We're in a place on this forum that, at least in my opinion, people get to because they're sick of all the ball fondling (so to speak) that goes on in the UFO and paranormal community. Not everyone gets to that point, some are content to just believe whatever it is they're told or to follow whoever it is that has the largest following.
Very true
 
Hmmm, I don't know if I can agree with you on this one ... ( see original post for the rest )

That was an excellent post Muadib. Very well thought out counterpoint. Just because we have the experience to see the bigger picture, doesn't mean everyone else does, especially those new to the subject. They should be made more aware of what they are getting into. If anyone can contribute content that won't get me sued, I'll create an article and post it up on the USI website to help raise some public awareness.
 
anything to do with UFOs is already tainted and messed up in this so called field anyway, but when you add greer into the mix, any hope you have with evidence is touched by his shitty stick.

One of my problems with the Greers and Greer like people is that when people who genuinely want to come forward with real information or who are in a position of authority with great intel, well as we have seen with the disclosure project, if they even so much as publicly accidently brush asses with this guy it automatically taints their testimonies. I mean these people have been used for a profit making organisation.

This is one of the main disinfo tools out there and just one of the reasons why this is no joke. Sully the evidence , death by association. All it takes is an association and condoning of one Serpo doc, a van den broeke a greer or anyone else who is blatantly tainted to make even the most credible researcher let alone an entry level witness pretty much discounted no matter the actual great stuff that went before. It becomes like a game of knock down the expert. Bang there goes another one, 30years of hard work down the drain cos now he's adamant that some dude has a grey in the cool box. This has happened to countless people. If you want to be in this game you have to have your wits about you and have an understanding of jouranalistic faculties beyound plain reportage. perhaps thats the point, human developement. mental evolution.

People who dont know any better look and see; Greer seems legitamate enough, hell he's even a doctor whose given lectures to governments. The documents seem legitamate enough, hell they even say top secret for majick eyes only and have an old typefonty feel.

Custodians of people's testimonies and people who research and proport the truth have a tremendous responsibility. Its not just about them and their BS scam or lack of professional observance, its about its effect on the "field" as a whole. This having a subtle influence over the masses over time, this is happening unconciously as well as nefariously, social engineering with a ouija engineer such as the pushing of the ETH meme. Ultimately "those" that want to keep secrets win. We have to seriously develop our BS detectors or at least take up a position which encompasses all avenues with logical detrimental understanding and get to the crux of whats keeping us stuck. This seems in part to be about this idea of what is real and false, the veils of perception.--ultimately we are lead back to the original sighting and an age old gnostic puzzle.


People who undergo life changing experiences are under a tremendous burden anyway. They dont know who to turn to, what to say even. They keep secrets for years. They're scared to be treated as whackos or associated with them. Its not like there is a trusted independent respected body that they can go too. This sci-fi problem becomes a metaphor for the human condition, distilled and encapsulated in a lite entertainment pantomime for everyone to digest, involve, examine, ruminate over or be enthralled by. We've been doing it for so long now, its getting boring, its turned into entertainment because we arent getting anything else practical from it. We need to make a change and turn this whole thing on its head because the vultures have moved in and are picking at the corpse.
 
Theres been alot of Stephen Greer hating on the Paracast forums. I just wanted to readdress the balance seeing as he wont ever come back on the show to answer his critics and defend himself. So here goes..

I don't know much about Steven Greer. About some five years ago I came across Greer's stuff totally by chance while surfing on the web. The stuff I stumbled upon was videos gathering many interviews Greer has conducted with some official people of the US army/Air force or government institutions (CIA...). From what I understood at the time, the goal was to force the government to disclose any information they were keeping secret and aparently some hidden "free" energy that was hidden, whatever that means ?? Apart from the (neverending) discussion that there will be a disclosure or not and this weird "free energy" stuff, I found this effort somehow praiseworthy. Now, among the people interviewed there could also be frauds...

However, it turned out that Greer later slipped on to wildest and wildest stuff with ET communication/encounter tours, etc, Greer seemingly giving himself some very important role in this wacky stuff. To my mind this has much devaluated his first action to something which can't be taken seriously now.
 
I don't know much about Steven Greer. About some five years ago I came across Greer's stuff totally by chance while surfing on the web. The stuff I stumbled upon was videos gathering many interviews Greer has conducted with some official people of the US army/Air force or government institutions (CIA...). From what I understood at the time, the goal was to force the government to disclose any information they were keeping secret and aparently some hidden "free" energy that was hidden, whatever that means ?? Apart from the (neverending) discussion that there will be a disclosure or not and this weird "free energy" stuff, I found this effort somehow praiseworthy. Now, among the people interviewed there could also be frauds...

However, it turned out that Greer later slipped on to wildest and wildest stuff with ET communication/encounter tours, etc, Greer seemingly giving himself some very important role in this wacky stuff. To my mind this has much devaluated his first action to something which can't be taken seriously now.

My impression was much the same as yours until I started hearing all of this other stuff a while back. Then I started to wonder what had gone wrong and end up writing him off as another contactee type. Now I'm hearing opinions that we shouldn't take these converts to woo so lightly because of the damage they can do to serious ufology over time. Some really good points have been made in that regard, but at the same time we don't want to over emphasize them because like they say, all press is good press, and too much attention can backfire. In other words, if we're not careful, we risk giving him so much exposure that it adds disrepute to the field as a whole rather than working as damage control by compartmentalizing the story into the fringes part of ufology culture. So that's the approach I'm going to take at USI.
 

[The latest missive from Greer--arrived via email this morning --chris]

Dr. Greer reports on research on possible ET body.

23.jpg


After many weeks of travel, we are back to report that amazing results have been obtained from our study of the small possible ET body which was discussed in an earlier blog post.

Dr. Bravo, Emery Smith and I traveled to the country that is now home to this small possible ET body and were able to successfully obtain extensive X-Ray and CT Scans of the entire body. We were also able to obtain DNA samples under sterile, surgical conditions. These DNA samples are now being studied by one of the world's top geneticists.

The X-Ray and CT scan show an intact, actual biological humanoid organism, without question. Astonishing 3-D images were able to be constructed of the body from the detailed CT scan, and we were able to see internal organs such as lungs and what I am fairly sure is a heart structure.

These images have just been examined by the world's foremost authority on skeletal abnormalities, dysplasias and fetal skeletal syndromes and he has stated that this being is unlike any known skeletal structure found in humans. We also know that it is not an ancient hominid, and while humanoid, not apparently human.

Both this expert as well as the radiologist who is head of the imaging center where all X-rays and CTs were done have stated that the bone density precludes the body being that of a 20-22 week aborted human fetus. There is just too much calcium in the bone for this being to have been the result of a fetus of that age. Both doctors feel that the being was post-natal at the time of death (that is had lived for some time outside the womb, if indeed a womb is involved...).

The procedures for the DNA studies are complex and time-consuming. Literally the state-of-the-art technology available on earth will be brought to bear on this study, and the team of experts are without a doubt the most advanced and professional team that could possibly be assembled. The DNA studies will take around 2 months, and possibly longer.

We hope to provide some of these results, and the detailed CT and X-ray images, in the film Sirius. (See Sirius.Neverendinglight.com)
The STAR team has provided film footage of our trip including the examination and surgical procedures performed on the small being, as well as the CT scan and X-rays to the A. Kaleka and the Neverendinglight team to use in the film Sirius.

We have also completed the Sirius Lecture Event in Santa Monica CA which was a great success and standing room only. A big thank you to all of you who came out to make that event a wonderful and historic event!

We have transferred to Neverendinglight hundred of UFO photos, video tapes, dozens of top-secret witness testimony and top-secret government documents as well as other materials for the film At this point there is enough evidence in hand for a 20 part series! We hope the film Sirius will be completed in December, 2012 and I will be further interviewed by NEL in November prior to our Contact expedition to the CA desert Nov. 10-17.

I would like to thank all of you for the enthusiastic support you have provided to this historic film project Sirius. Without you, none of this would be possible!

Steven M. Greer MD
 
... One of my problems with the Greers and Greer like people is that when people who genuinely want to come forward with real information or who are in a position of authority with great intel ... if they even so much as publicly accidently brush asses with this guy it automatically taints their testimonies. I mean these people have been used for a profit making organisation ...

Some really excellent points in that post, but I want to point out that being a for profit organization doesn't necessarily mean that the effort is tainted. Non-profit efforts can become just as problematic. That's why at USI I've taken a third route. USI is neither registered as a charity nor as a corporate entity. It operates as an informal network in the spirit of a non-profit organization, but without governmental regulation. This frees us to operate as individuals or as cells, privately or publicly without having to submit a roster of member names to the government. So membership information can be entirely confidential and there is no political structure to infiltrate and corrupt. The downside is that although we have members around the world, I'm about the only one who openly and consistently contributes directly to the core project. Good volunteers are really hard to come by.
 
"These images have just been examined by the world's foremost authority on skeletal abnormalities, dysplasias and fetal skeletal syndromes and he has stated that this being is unlike any known skeletal structure found in humans. We also know that it is not an ancient hominid, and while humanoid, not apparently human.

Both this expert as well as the radiologist who is head of the imaging center where all X-rays and CTs were done have stated that the bone density precludes the body being that of a 20-22 week aborted human fetus. There is just too much calcium in the bone for this being to have been the result of a fetus of that age. Both doctors feel that the being was post-natal at the time of death (that is had lived for some time outside the womb, if indeed a womb is involved...).

The procedures for the DNA studies are complex and time-consuming. Literally the state-of-the-art technology available on earth will be brought to bear on this study, and the team of experts are without a doubt the most advanced and professional team that could possibly be assembled. The DNA studies will take around 2 months, and possibly longer.

We hope to provide some of these results, and the detailed CT and X-ray images, in the film Sirius"



Hopefully, they'll be able to provide some names for these world's foremost authorities doing this research as well. ;)
 
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