Unless they are harvesting sentient conciousness itself, in which case taking steps to stop us destroying the manufactoring facility (earth) would be logical.
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Is an "Alien preemptive strike " Likely?
- Thread starter Christopher O'Brien
- Start date
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Unless they are harvesting sentient conciousness itself, in which case taking steps to stop us destroying the manufactoring facility (earth) would be logical.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
But it's possible they want to incorporate some of our genes before getting rid of us completely. We are after all, fully adapted to earthly conditions, so at least something about us may be deemed worth preserving before "screwing" really starts.
---------- Post added at 10:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------
Essentially, some people have actually claimed to have done that.
Jeff Crowell
Paranormal Annoyance
Okay, this really made me LOL! It reminds me of the scene in Paul when the guy kicks Paul (the alien) in the head and knocks him against the window.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Speculation: If you accept that people have been seeing UAP since the beginnings of recorded history then you would have to conclude that the preemptive strike could probably have already occurred. It could mean we been in a Cargo Cult type of situation since its beginnings. We look up in the sky and go, "Ohhh, lookit!" and turn back to stirring mud totally incapable of comprehending what is actually going on. Even with our modern instruments it appears that all we can get out of it is, "Ohhhh, lookit!" and turn back to our iPhones and whatnot. We could be invaded, occupied, and controlled by a civilization whose technology is indistinguishable from magic and we could be totally, and completely in the dark about it. Is that what is going on? How could you tell? My unscientific feeling about is that if it were ever going to happen, then it has most likely already occurred and we were no more prepared for it than an heretofore undiscovered African pygmy tribe being cable-ready.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
But you have to wonder what are they carting back in forth in those things? Anybody care to speculate?
Mars needs women!
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Yes, of course. Our shiny stuff and wimmings are coveted on countless worlds no doubt.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
i think we assume too much. As a thought exercise, why does interstellar travel equate advanced weaponry? We assume that because they have advanced tech in one area then they have it in all areas. I have never understood why that is. We have evidence, albeit largely anecdotal, that they have the travel thing figured out. Most of the time they run from our planes. So, where does the "advanced weaponry" aspect of this phenomenon come from? What "evidence" do we have if that?
I tend to agree, if they wanted to "invade" earth the logical weapon of choice is genetics, not lasers of bombs or other direct hit types of weapon.
Using genetics you could "win" the earth without having to fire a shot.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
They wouldn't even need genetics Mike. It's an absolute waste of time and effort. When you can play another organism's central nervous system like a violin, actual physical intervention is completely unnecessary. One problem with the whole alien hybrid hypothesis is that it isn't imaginative enough. If we are dealing with true super-science then the of control all that you see, hear, and feel (that is to say your subjective experience) trumps any need for crude physical intervention of any kind. The control of the collective human consciousness is then just a question of scalability. This is Lovecraftian horror in its ultimate expression of sheer helplessness in the face of cosmic power. Tuuuuuurrrremble at the thought of it. David Jacobs' little horror show pales in comparison.
It depends on what the objective is
For example if the objective is to own the earth, then slowly replacing our genes with theirs not only achieves the objective, it may give legitimacy to the claim via the possesion is 9/10ths of the law reasoning.
Theres the hybrid vigour scenario
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...h-benefits-of-breeding-with-Neanderthals.html
If any of their galactic contemporarys objected to the invasion, they could claim it was to our "benefit".
Thats if they notice a genetic stealth invasion at all.
Most of that population also think this was to the benefit of the original geneotype.
Better technology, nutrition, housing, medicine. reduved infant mortality rates etc etc
One mans destruction is another mans upgrade.
For an alien species to simply destroy us and take the planet, may well look like an act of hostile destruction, where as a genetic uplift program could be sold as a positive change.
A genetic stealth invasion may simply be a politically smarter way of getting the job done
We tend to look at the possibilitys from a human pov, that may make it impossible to fathom the methods and motivations.
Reading the article above its clear we ARE hybrids
That this hybridisation was to our benefit.
To me this raises the potential that some of the genes that make us what we are, may be of a non terrestrial origin.
Humans tend to set a military goal and then go about achieving it as quickly as possible, as others have mentioned that may not be the mindset at play here, a stealth invasion taking many thousands of years may be acceptable to an ET "invader".
It may be the neanderthal is the real "earthling" in this scenario, and that we are the invaders.
Most people assume that modern humans are
A. Native to earth
B. The rightful owners
If modern human hybrids (which is what we are) are the result of a genetic stealth invasion, then its the Nandys who were A and B.
The fact that this idea doesnt even occur to most of the humans on the earth, is in fact the ideal outcome of a stealth invasion, the idea being that no one (terrestrial or otherwise) notices it happening
Where the outright destruction of a native species might provoke the ire of your galactic neighbours, a slow genetic invasion may not.
We see the same thing here on earth, often where a military invasion is not possible, a corporate invasion is.
The cuckoo uses the same tactic, with the surrogate parents completly unaware they are raising and teaching and passing on territory to offspring genetically unrelated to them
Australia is a classic example, when the japanese tried to invade militarily during WW2, it was resisted both intellectually and physically by the most other nations of earth, yet barely 2 centurys prior the white man gene invaded by stealth with barely a shot fired
Where the overt invasion was resisted and objected to, the covert genetic stealth invasion was succesful.
300 years ago the people of australia were all dark skined, walk into any city today, and you will notice the population is for the most part white, the white mans gene is dominant
Most white australians think this was to the original genotypes benefit, better technology better housing, nutrition, medicine, decreased infant mortality rates etc etc.
Where simply destroying us and taking the real estate, may be seen by the greater galactic community as an act of destructive hostile negativity, a genetic stealth invasion could be sold as being to our benefit.
It may simply be wiser politically to do it this way
For example if the objective is to own the earth, then slowly replacing our genes with theirs not only achieves the objective, it may give legitimacy to the claim via the possesion is 9/10ths of the law reasoning.
Theres the hybrid vigour scenario
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...h-benefits-of-breeding-with-Neanderthals.html
If any of their galactic contemporarys objected to the invasion, they could claim it was to our "benefit".
Thats if they notice a genetic stealth invasion at all.
Most of that population also think this was to the benefit of the original geneotype.
Better technology, nutrition, housing, medicine. reduved infant mortality rates etc etc
One mans destruction is another mans upgrade.
For an alien species to simply destroy us and take the planet, may well look like an act of hostile destruction, where as a genetic uplift program could be sold as a positive change.
A genetic stealth invasion may simply be a politically smarter way of getting the job done
We tend to look at the possibilitys from a human pov, that may make it impossible to fathom the methods and motivations.
Reading the article above its clear we ARE hybrids
That this hybridisation was to our benefit.
To me this raises the potential that some of the genes that make us what we are, may be of a non terrestrial origin.
Humans tend to set a military goal and then go about achieving it as quickly as possible, as others have mentioned that may not be the mindset at play here, a stealth invasion taking many thousands of years may be acceptable to an ET "invader".
It may be the neanderthal is the real "earthling" in this scenario, and that we are the invaders.
Most people assume that modern humans are
A. Native to earth
B. The rightful owners
If modern human hybrids (which is what we are) are the result of a genetic stealth invasion, then its the Nandys who were A and B.
The fact that this idea doesnt even occur to most of the humans on the earth, is in fact the ideal outcome of a stealth invasion, the idea being that no one (terrestrial or otherwise) notices it happening
Where the outright destruction of a native species might provoke the ire of your galactic neighbours, a slow genetic invasion may not.
We see the same thing here on earth, often where a military invasion is not possible, a corporate invasion is.
The cuckoo uses the same tactic, with the surrogate parents completly unaware they are raising and teaching and passing on territory to offspring genetically unrelated to them
Australia is a classic example, when the japanese tried to invade militarily during WW2, it was resisted both intellectually and physically by the most other nations of earth, yet barely 2 centurys prior the white man gene invaded by stealth with barely a shot fired
Where the overt invasion was resisted and objected to, the covert genetic stealth invasion was succesful.
300 years ago the people of australia were all dark skined, walk into any city today, and you will notice the population is for the most part white, the white mans gene is dominant
Most white australians think this was to the original genotypes benefit, better technology better housing, nutrition, medicine, decreased infant mortality rates etc etc.
Where simply destroying us and taking the real estate, may be seen by the greater galactic community as an act of destructive hostile negativity, a genetic stealth invasion could be sold as being to our benefit.
It may simply be wiser politically to do it this way
Anaximander
Skilled Investigator
How much would you pay for the chance to live as an alien on their homeworld?
"The experience of a lifetime, yours for only five easy payments of $999.99. Eat alien food with an alien mouth. Develop valuable connections and learn of new investment opportunities. *Ask about our Special discount for exobiology students!"
Another scenario where genetic hybridisation might make sense.
We've all heard the adage, give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats forever.
I'll start with simple reasons and work my way to the big one.
As ive posted before what sets us apart from every single other creature on the planet, is not our ability to think or use tools, its our ability to create and use external energy sources.
Of the billions of species that exist and have ever existed on earth, we are the only ones who do that.
A rare talent, and one i suspect is mirrored in the greater cosmos. One i posit is worthy of preserving.
The potential for extinction level comsic accidents is evident, indeed the dinosuars are touted as having come unstuck biologically for that very reason.
A species that decided we were worth saving, for our creative abilitys, can do so on a day to day basis.(giving us a fish, one at a time)
But it could also teach us to fish, ie look after ourselves.
Statisically speaking cosmic history may be replete with examples where the rate at which these comsic accident ELE's tend to come around faster than the evolutionary process can counter.
Genetic uplift, may be a way of speeding up the process whereby we become self sufficient technologically speaking ,to fish for ourselves
If we look at the Australian native, the capt of the HMS Endeavour, and Andy Thomas, its evident that of those three examples the last one is the one most likely to understand what an asteroid on collision course for earth means, and propose a workable solution to stop it.
It would also explain the elusive nature of those doing the uplifting, were we to know for sure someone else was dealing with the problem, we would have no incentive for doing it for ourselves.
But i will go one step further, what if the bulk of sentient intellect is post biological, and that for the moment they are here uploading our conciousness at the point of death.
(ie giving us a fish)
Might not the ultimate goal be to uplift us genetically and thus technologically to be able to perform this function by ourselves for ourselves..... and ultimately for others down the cosmic track ?
We've all heard the adage, give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he eats forever.
I'll start with simple reasons and work my way to the big one.
As ive posted before what sets us apart from every single other creature on the planet, is not our ability to think or use tools, its our ability to create and use external energy sources.
Of the billions of species that exist and have ever existed on earth, we are the only ones who do that.
A rare talent, and one i suspect is mirrored in the greater cosmos. One i posit is worthy of preserving.
The potential for extinction level comsic accidents is evident, indeed the dinosuars are touted as having come unstuck biologically for that very reason.
A species that decided we were worth saving, for our creative abilitys, can do so on a day to day basis.(giving us a fish, one at a time)
But it could also teach us to fish, ie look after ourselves.
Statisically speaking cosmic history may be replete with examples where the rate at which these comsic accident ELE's tend to come around faster than the evolutionary process can counter.
Genetic uplift, may be a way of speeding up the process whereby we become self sufficient technologically speaking ,to fish for ourselves
If we look at the Australian native, the capt of the HMS Endeavour, and Andy Thomas, its evident that of those three examples the last one is the one most likely to understand what an asteroid on collision course for earth means, and propose a workable solution to stop it.
It would also explain the elusive nature of those doing the uplifting, were we to know for sure someone else was dealing with the problem, we would have no incentive for doing it for ourselves.
But i will go one step further, what if the bulk of sentient intellect is post biological, and that for the moment they are here uploading our conciousness at the point of death.
(ie giving us a fish)
Might not the ultimate goal be to uplift us genetically and thus technologically to be able to perform this function by ourselves for ourselves..... and ultimately for others down the cosmic track ?
Ezechiel
Paranormal Adept
Once we get to a point where consciousness has been decoded, what you've described here becomes a reality.
The other part of the equation is the infrastructure supporting consciousness. This is the DNA part which describes the physical construct needed to operate in a physical environment.
The day we master both we'll be able to create an artificial sentient creature able to survive in alien environments. A simple visit to Disney EPCOT will show you plants that have the potential of surviving on Mars
From a top down perspective, its not a long stretch to imagine higher civilizations taking care of 'earthlike' gardens.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Janet Asimov's excellent book Mind Transfer explores some of these themes. It's worth picking up if you can find a copy.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
Some say the government has been doing its best e.g. occasional, claimed shoot downs.
I doubt it--too much evidence of earth-alien hostility, hardly predicted by that hypothesis.
---------- Post added at 02:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------
Most likely due to a desire to avoid too much of a ruckus, due to fighting, than technical inferiority, although there is a little evidence some aren't so advanced.
Lots of examples, from the stun device used on the frenchman in 1965 to the beams which disabled ICBMs.
---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------
I dunno...While they can obviously control individual behavior for short periods of time, they may not be able to control us all, or to exert control on a continuing basis may not be practical.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
Both of which are existing human technology. We have tons of "stun" tech and are developing more in "Less Than Leathal" initiatives in the private sector and through DARPA. Tasers, arc based stun guns, DEW (Directed Energy Weapons), Liquid charge stun guns, as well as a tone of chemical based weapons designed to incapacitate. The most common example is the taser. It was developed over time from 1969-1974.
We have had the ability to fly a modified 747 with a nose mounted laser that hunts and destroys ICBMs on the drawing board publicly since 1991 when I saw it at the Aerospace America Air Show in Oklahoma City. The first flight of the YAL-1 was in 2002. The Russians even had a similar platform. The Beriev A-60 first flew in 1981. There were at least two of these built. There is also the Boeing NC-135 (a modified KC-135). Its first flight was in 1976. There is also ATL (Advanced Tactical Laser) which is mounted on the bottom of the already scary as hell C-130 gunship. Also, there are other programs like HELLADS (High Energy Liquid Laser Area Defense System) and THEL (Tactical High Energy Laser). These are ground, mobile, or ship based platforms that essentially do the same thing as the airborne variety. So a beam that disables missiles is not otherworldly super advanced tech.
My point is simple and is kind of illustrated above. Yes, we can see that the flight characteristics of the objects are supreme. But, where is the evidence that the weaponry is light years (pun intended) ahead of ours? As long as we are taking a trip to speculation town, I think we need to consider that perhaps our pervasive warrior like mentality could be an aspect that manifests itself in propelling us technically far beyond our other altruistic R&D. A fact not really in dispute as a rediculously large portion of new technoloigcal innovation is developed with tactical applications in mind and is thereafter adapted for civilian use.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
As far as the mile wide/long craft that has been reported, my money is on water collection. Something that large is probably moving a very large quantity of something. Liquid water seems to me to be the best fit for the reported characteristics. I believe that Earth and Europa are the only two bodies in our solar system that has liquid water. Europa's is covered by a mile or two of solid ice. Ours is right out in the open. It just seems like we could be the local watering hole.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
Well, they haven't done much outright attacking, so much of their capability may be unknown, or undemonstrated. Btw IIRC what happened at nuke sites wasn't physical destruction of missiles but scrambling of launch codes. Dunno if our lasers can do that.
---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 AM ----------
No doubt the jovians have vast amounts of water; even Mars may have a lot of subsurface liquid, as well as frozen, water. IIRC Carr said, in his Water on Mars that the enormous amounts of water that ran on the surface in Hesperian times represent only 10% or 20% of the original subsurface inventory. They could probably get all they need elsewhere, without possible confrontation with earthly powers--a serious risk if their weapons are no more advanced.