Issac Asimov Memorial Debate: Is Universe a Simulation?

[marduk]

The essential problem with a lot of this discussion is that it is being done from our perspective, our understanding of physics. So, yes, from our perspective it would be very difficult to simulate a universe like our own. That is evidence of nothing. It could be that our universe was intentionally designed in this manner to prevent the constuction of infinitely deep universe simulations. To assume that any universe outside our own (the one running the simulation of us) functions on the same laws of physics is naive. As brought up early on in the video, were Mario to approach discerning what our universe is liked based on the laws and observable constructs of his own world, he would be trudging down a very wrong path.

In regards to referring to our programmers as god(s), if this is truly a simulation, there isn’t anything to debate. They would be our god, our creator. All the other stuff, omniscience, their plans, benevolence, malevolence, answering prayers, or that they pay us any mind at all is just the material of our own varied beliefs that we have made up. We might not even be the main focus of the simulation. We might simply be the Koopas, patiently waiting for Mario to get to our level.

That's just more hand waiving, no?

If we were to simulate a universe, it would likely align at least in general with ours. Why would we simulate a random universe?

 

[marduk]

I'm not sure I follow you exactly, so sorry. I think that you are saying that God's omniscience would of necessity collapse all wave functions in accord, and only in accord, with his will, eliminating everyone else's free will. If that's your intent, then that is a fair challenge, though it seems to me that a Creator could design even the quantum world in a way to include a measure of human freedom. Probably most people are sure they have freedom of decision, but I don't think that human freedom of necessity mitigates against a theistic aspect to reality. Admittedly my opinion.

Well, today I got an email back about my second journal submission this summer, and the editor has legitimate "concerns" that I will have to deal with.
So, syanora for some time.

Not quite what I'm saying... what I'm saying is that if the brain relies on QM to give us free will, and God's existence in the universe was incompatible with QM, then we wouldn't have free will because QM wouldn't be a thing.

His will would have nothing to do with it. All superpositions would collapse as soon as they were created because he'd be looking everywhere, all at once, forever.

 

[Linton]

That's just more hand waiving, no?

If we were to simulate a universe, it would likely align at least in general with ours. Why would we simulate a random universe?

It’s not hand waiving at all. Unless we are going to start calling showing some imagination hand waiving now. Look at all the video games we produce, and not just the uber popular first person shooter yawn-fests. There are some truly out there games that have little in resemblence to our world. My assumption, in fact, would be that if we are a simulation, the outer universe — the real universe — would be very different and possibly (probably?) incomprehensibly more complex.

 

[marduk]

It’s not hand waiving at all. Unless we are going to start calling showing some imagination hand waiving now. Look at all the video games we produce, and not just the uber popular first person shooter yawn-fests. There are some truly out there games that have little in resemblence to our world. My assumption, in fact, would be that if we are a simulation, the outer universe — the real universe — would be very different and possibly (probably?) incomprehensibly more complex.

I've played no man's sky recently. It simulates a universe that is different, but with the same basic physics - there's gravity, planets, stars, life forms, that kind of thing.

Why would an uber species simulate noise?

 

[Linton]

I've played no man's sky recently. It simulates a universe that is different, but with the same basic physics - there's gravity, planets, stars, life forms, that kind of thing.

Why would an uber species simulate noise?

I don’t know, off the top of my head, maybe, fun? Or are we going with the assumption that all super intelligent beings are sterile lumps of logic.

Maybe they are not even super intelligent. Maybe the physics of their universe make it ridiculously easy for complex simulations to be developed. Maybe, as suggested in the video, we are the product of some child at play. Maybe we are the collective creation of a group of intelligent networked machines, who with no concept themselves of what their outside universe is have constructed our universe as some sort of thought experiment in an attempt to comprehend a tangible world. And maybe they have it ridiculously wrong.

There was a reason that there was a philosopher on the panel, because, as they touched upon the very nature of the simulation may be that the scientific rules that we are given to work with are specifically designed to prevent us from detecting the truth. It might be the purpose of the simulation to see if a species arising in the simulation can glean the truth despite the imposed or inherent limitations to do so, which would in turn shed light, perhaps, on some hypothesized aspect of the universe of the maker of the simulation. Or maybe we are simply proving that in the end we live or die by the rule of logical observation. “Told you so, Blargnok. Pull the plug, they’re never going to figure it out.”

 

[mike]

When i first heard about the simulation theory my first thought was nahhhhhh........
But the more i looked into it, the more interested i became.

"The structure of the underlying lattice"
The authors of this new paper describe their conclusion as following: "The numerical simulation scenario could reveal itself in the distributions of the highest energy cosmic rays exhibiting a degree of rotational symmetry breaking that reflects the structure of the underlying lattice."

This "underlying lattice" is what I'm describing as a "resolution" of our physical simulation.

There's other evidence of this, too: Plank's Constant, for example, is by itself yet more evidence that the physical universe in which we live is quantized to a particular resolution. In fact, even light behaves in a quantized manner, which is why "light packets" are called quanta.

Our universe, it turns out, is digital, not analog. Heck, even your DNA is digital, not analog. You are a digitized physical being imbued with a non-material consciousness that transcends this physical simulation. Realizing this is a lot like taking the red pill in The Matrix and being shown that the universe you thought was real is actually just a grand computer simulation.

Yet more evidence emerges that our universe is a grand simulation created by an intelligent designer

I now consider a simulation aspect might be part of the post biological hypothesis.