Jan Harzan, MUFON Exec... Pedophile?

[kanakaris]

Extremely problematic and unacceptable way to start a sentence Randall. There is no “but” when it comes to the sexual exploitation of children.

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Agree , but can we have a good laugh with this :
Dave Chappelle

 

[Jenny Chan]

I do not want MUFON on the Paracast anymore.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Well, we will certainly talk about them. But you'l probably get your wish.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

So, perhaps have David MacDonald on as a Paracast guest?

He was offered that opportunity several times during his original tenure running MUFON, and never responded.

That ship has sailed, and the same can be said for MUFON's credibility as a UFO research group.

 

[Randall]

Do you all think there's a higher than average amount of pedophiles in paranormal research? Or, do you think it's just average for any field of research? We know about the higher profile guys who've been charged, but then you hear about researchers, or "researchers," who were never charged, from people that interacted with them. John Hunt Williamson, Raymond Bernard, Billy Meier, Wendelle Stevens... Probably many more in Ufology. And if you want to cast the net even wider, almost certainly Preston Nicols and various other people connected to Montauk. A lot of the people connected to mind control "research." Don't know about cryptozoology or ghost-hunters. What do you all think?

I don't know. It seems there's been just as much of ( or more of a problem ) with pedophelia in religion, sports, entertainment, business, etc, and the perpetrators haven't always been men. Epstein's accomplice is now in custody and getting ready to name big names, that is if she lives long enough to testify against them.

 

[Randall]

Agree , but can we have a good laugh with this :
Dave Chappelle

Hilarious, but ...

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Also notice someone that Epstein palled around with especially in the 1990s. There are lots of photos of the two, and can we assume that other person was totally ignorant of what was going on?

 

[Sighing Flosser]

I don't know. It seems there's been just as much of ( or more of a problem ) with pedophelia in religion, sports, entertainment, business, etc, and the perpetrators haven't always been men. Epstein's accomplice is now in custody and getting ready to name big names, that is if she lives long enough to testify against them.

I think anywhere you have positions of moral authority, you'll find higher than average numbers of pedophiles.

 

[Randall]

Extremely problematic and unacceptable way to start a sentence Randall ...

What? Freedom of speech and the right to question the legitimacy of criminal charges are now "unacceptable"? When did that happen? It doesn't make any difference what the crime is, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and even then, exculpatory evidence needs to be taken into consideration. I don't know enough about this case, or have all the evidence, nor am I legally qualified to summarily convict and appropriately sentence Harzan. What makes you think you are?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

While proximity to a crime scene might put someone in the crosshairs as a suspect, Harzan wasn't selected out of the blue. He will have his chance to defend himself but this is the sort of crime that is difficult to defend against if the facts as reported are accurate.

In saying that, yes, he is entitled to a vigorous defense and he is innocent until proven guilty.

But MUFON has a lot of things to answer for aside from what has happened to its now former International Director.

 

[Randall]

While proximity to a crime scene might put someone in the crosshairs as a suspect, Harzan wasn't selected out of the blue. He will have his chance to defend himself but this is the sort of crime that is difficult to defend against if the facts as reported are accurate.

In saying that, yes, he is entitled to a vigorous defense and he is innocent until proven guilty.

Definitely. It's one thing when Joe Bloe gets busted, and another when the figurehead of a worldwide organization gets busted. Stepping down would seem to be the first order of business. Then again, I remember when David Letterman was accused of some inappropriate behavior. He stood fast and maintained his innocence. He won against the accusations, and unless I'm missing some important evidence, I see more reason to respect him for that than not to.

But MUFON has a lot of things to answer for aside from what has happened to its now former International Director.

I think the field needs a new model, and that's why I proposed the one USI uses. It's completely informal, no membership fees, and all members are free to participate in their own way and time. The downside is that there is no focused and funded direction. Then again, there's nothing stopping members from doing that if they want to either.

 

[Farlig Gulstein]

He was offered that opportunity several times during his original tenure running MUFON, and never responded.

That ship has sailed, and the same can be said for MUFON's credibility as a UFO research group.

My point in making the original suggestion was to be able to point some serious questions towards MUFON leadership to perhaps help cause a serious change. But I really do not know that much about the organization other than that it seems to provide on a minimal positive impact in the ufological world, and not a little negative impact. One wonders if the rank and file MUFON folks will abandon the organization in droves, and if some new organization will form. . .

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I wonder if there even a need for this sort of UFO club anymore. We no longer live in the 1950s, even though there are people out there who want to think otherwise.

 

[Paranormal bug a boo]

Ironic that MUFON was a spinoff from APRO which, in retrospect, was a far more useful organization despite the constraints of its leadership (particularly Ms. Lorenzen).

I couldn’t agree more, Gene. It seemed to me that every interview, in recent memory, had more to do with damage control or dispelling rumors of internal malfeasance rather than focusing on current or new developments within the UFO field.

 

[marduk]

I wonder if there even a need for this sort of UFO club anymore. We no longer live in the 1950s, even though there are people out there who want to think otherwise.

I wonder if they were actually a mistake to begin with.

I'm increasingly aware that this phenomena is most often (and Strieber points out) an individual one. Meaning, it targets individuals and is based on the individual's experience for the most part.

Sightings are usually single person events. I had one here in Calgary years ago (documented here) while at a busy intersection, and I seemed to be the only one that noticed. Others are single people or small groups for the most part. And abductions are for the most part targeted at specific individuals.

60 or 70 years of citizen science and even with things like AATIP really haven't brought anything new to the table.

 

[ChrisJohnsen]

Then again, I remember when David Letterman was accused of some inappropriate behavior. He stood fast and maintained his innocence. He won against the accusations...

You are incorrect, sir. Letterman was being blackmailed by a CBS News producer that had come into possession of a diary proving that Letterman had been inappropriately having sex with members of his staff for years. Letterman subsequently addressed and confirmed the sexual encounters, what we now refer to as sexual harassment, not “inappropriate behavior,” on-air in his monologue in order to get out in front of the story, since the cops, with Letterman’s cooperation, had arrested the blackmailer. He also publicly apologized to his wife on-air. It was a huge embarrassment for Letterman and led to a lengthy bout of serious depression for him.

In a related matter, a couple of years ago, comedy writer Nell Scovell accused Letterman of sexual favoritism during her tenure on the show while he was sleeping with staff members. He sat down with her in 2019, acknowledged the bad behavior, and apologized to her.

What accusations of “inappropriate behavior” he was found innocent for are you talking about?


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[ChrisJohnsen]

I don't know. It seems there's been just as much of ( or more of a problem ) with pedophelia in religion, sports, entertainment, business, etc, and the perpetrators haven't always been men. Epstein's accomplice is now in custody and getting ready to name big names, that is if she lives long enough to testify against them.

To second Randall’s point, other than the now proven and known concentration of pedophiles within the priesthood of the Catholic Church, and probably within the upper-echelons of the Hollywood/Entertainment Industry power structure (see HBO’s disturbing new doc, “Showbiz Kids” for more on that), I think sexual deviancy such as pedophilia is spread across the spectrum of the (predominantly) male section of humanity, regardless of occupation. Though I do think positions of power and wealth can allow such deviant behavior to go unchecked and covered up far more easily than your street-level sexual deviant/child rapist.

Very sadly, I think for every Jeffrey Epstein there is a creepy relative in the trailer park. Rich people just have the means to abuse on a larger scale and be able to afford to cover it up, bribe officials, or litigate to avoid accountability. As we have seen time immemorial and are now currently seeing again with Epstein and Maxwell.


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[ChrisJohnsen]

What? Freedom of speech and the right to question the legitimacy of criminal charges are now "unacceptable"? When did that happen? It doesn't make any difference what the crime is, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and even then, exculpatory evidence needs to be taken into consideration. I don't know enough about this case, or have all the evidence, nor am I legally qualified to summarily convict and appropriately sentence Harzan. What makes you think you are?

I was pointing out your comment was poorly phrased, not that you couldn’t say it. Enough with the “free speech” histrionics. You sound like Tucker Carlson.


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[Gene Steinberg]

Apropos of nothing: After his main writer was exposed for writing racist screeds (sounds like a couple of MUFON officials), Carlson took one of his allegedly "scheduled" fishing trips for a week or so. That's a euphemism for being suspended. Many of his advertisers have already bailed despite his high ratings.

It's sad in a way: Carlson becomes serious and factual when he presents UFO/UAP interviews. Too bad.

 

[ChrisJohnsen]

It's sad in a way: Carlson becomes serious and factual when he presents UFO/UAP interviews. Too bad.

That’s regrettably true, Gene, but I chalk up his coverage of the UFO topic in general as just another Fox News pundit distraction technique to maintain the willful ignorance of their viewers rather than focusing on the important issues of the day.


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