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January 18, 2015 — Greg Bishop

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spacebrother said:
Recently I interviewed Bruce Deuensing, a very sharp UFO theorist whom I have admired for years. He identified problems and offered solutions or possible paths to thinking about the subject and gathering data in different ways.
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Thx for the reference. Just listened to the interview with Bruce for the 2nd time - which is a first for me with podcasts. Feel as though Ive just been accelerated to the vanguard of Vallee and Keel influenced theorising.

The experience was slightly disheartening as Bruce suggests that the way forward is the relationship between energy and information - which takes us into the realms of highly specialised scientific expertise, such as communications theory, and relegates most of us to observer status and reminds us that we are mere amateurs. Sigh...

Though maybe this should be taken as encouragement to engage in some self-science and explore these border states ourselves through the ever widening variety of transformative experiences. So engage in some consciousness transformation shopping with some Grof breath work, or Ayahuasca tourism, or pineal gland stimulation with Lucia No. 3 or [insert]...

Very interested to hear his thinking that we can be done on a practical level is database development that allows us to find the correlations between the circumstances in which these anomalous experiences arise, and that this is what Vallee is up to at the moment. Apparently Vallee was heavily involved in an invitation only meeting of 100 scientists at the French Acedemy of Sciences last year looking into the question of data-gathering around the UFO phenomena.
 
DaveM said:
Greg, if we could get over talking about Roswell for the thousandth time... maybe you could explain the big bang theory. How did the universe suddenly wink into existence and then keep expanding for billions of years. Inquiring minds want to know.
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To quote just about the smartest person Ive ever had the privilege of being awestruck in oratory eloquence, Terence McKenna, "if you'll believe the big bang theory, you'll believe anything"
 
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LatentCauses said:
So engage in some consciousness transformation shopping with some Grof breath work, or Ayahuasca tourism, or pineal gland stimulation with Lucia No. 3 or [insert]...
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I think you mentioned using a float tank too? And you have experimented with some substances to enhance what you're attempting to do. Did you find any good results with any of these methods? I'm quite interested that you may have had some experiences worth sharing about, or what might be worth trying. Please do so if possible. Thanks.
 
LatentCauses said:
To quote just about the smartest person Ive ever had the privilege of being awestruck in oratory eloquence, Terence McKenna, "if you'll believe the big bang theory, you'll believe anything"
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The question I have about McKenna is this ... was he actually a FBI/CIA agent?
 
Burnt State said:
Is that a consequence of prolonged exposure to deception, duplicity and questions that have no answers? Do you ever worry that if you think too much and too long about such things that there are even worse outcomes to encounter possibly?
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I edited this line out, but you saw it before I erased it!
No, the reason I said that I "sometimes think I have no idea what I'm talking about" is probably just a check on any possible ego problems.

I have no current "worries" about anything related to UFOs or the Government's involvement with them. That sort of thinking gives away what power you have to counter it. I went though a "dark night of the soul" about this many years ago, and that probably inoculated me.
 
DissectionStalker said:
I think you mentioned using a float tank too? And you have experimented with some substances to enhance what you're attempting to do. Did you find any good results with any of these methods? I'm quite interested that you may have had some experiences worth sharing about, or what might be worth trying. Please do so if possible. Thanks.
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I agree with McKenna about LSD - its very psycho-analytical. If you want a good session of getting to know yourself take it in a float tank. Its not a drug to mess with if you are not fundamentally OK with who you are and are not prepared to forgive yourself for your own human frailty.

If you are looking for the intelligence behind the veil, DMT and psylocibin seem to be the go. Im no expert on the latter two, but that seems to be the gist of what the psychonaut literature says - Terrence Mckenna included. The emerging literature on ayahuasca is very revealing - the drug seems to know you and to minister to your needs - and it doesnt always say nice things. Also not to be trifled with if your headspace if delicate. Again I emphasise Im not speaking from personal experience - though I hope to rectify that at some point in the future when the time and place are right.

Rick Strassman's DMT The Spirit Molecule really needs to be on everyone's reading list - if you have any interest in the connection between consciousness and anomolous experience - though I suspect Im preaching to the converted on this forum ;)
 
spacebrother said:
I think Strieber had some ideas along these lines.
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That guy is soooo out there for most people, which must mean you've found some book(s) he wrote that especially attracted you to this thinking. Can you name these here? Also, have you listened to many of his broadcasts or interviews that persuaded you this way too? IIRC, I think you commented "on air" somewhere about Strieber, so no biggie if you don't want to here.

According to a post from George Wingfield recently in the forum Strieber seemed to have been very manipulative towards his readership. I'll pop a link or two in here for that post, but it can be found using the poster's name and Strieber too.

Whitley says: "There may be no aliens here at all" | The Paracast Community Forums

AND chk this too:

Whitley says: "There may be no aliens here at all" | The Paracast Community Forums

There are 4 more posts in that same thread from George.

I certainly do not want to imply that you agree with Strieber on many things, as it may just be some few idea(s) you find worthwhile. Btw, it's really fantastic you have some spare time to post here. Again, thanks.
 
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DaveM said:
You say that with certainty. Jan Irvin states that McKenna admitted to being an agent at an Esalen conference in 1994.
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I think that was discussed regarding his comments at Esalen on this forum, and that same talk is found on Youtube to watch for yourself too. There's postings on the Internet about it too, so one can see the quotations and debate "out there" too.

I already checked it out for myself and am satisfied I have the truth about it as best I can. I watched the Esalen video, and I read the debate too. IIRC, I think I posted about it in the Forum.

Form your own opinion. One thing seems very certain to me. Terrence was VERY CLOSE to his brother, and his brother is still alive and an accomplished academic too. You owe it to yourself to learn what his brother thinks too! ALL can be seen FREE on Youtube.

We should respect other cultures and native peoples, and that goes for Shamans too. They know even deeper meanings than Terrence could ever know. Though it is obvious Terrence was definitely a very brilliant person too, and he had enormous experience taking all kinds of hallucinogenics. I doubt Esalen would have invited Terrence to speak there if he was some kind of provocateur to harm counter culture ideas or a government agent up to no good. IMHO.

He definitely came-up with some essentially "crazy ideas" about Time Waves; a theory he worked on for two decades or more. It was the result of the most "high trip" time-wise that both he and his brother did in South America. It just goes to show brilliant people get lost on tangents, don't think logically, and are often wrong about ideas. Don't take mushroom trips that keep you high for a week or two. That's "crazy".
 
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LatentCauses said:
Just listened to the interview with Bruce for the 2nd time - which is a first for me with podcasts. Feel as though Ive just been accelerated to the vanguard of Vallee and Keel influenced theorising.
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I'm listening to this too. Great interview Greg. I'm having problems with Bruce's concept that Energy = Information, and that every first year student of physics knows this.

It can't be information in human language terms. It seems outside the boundary of language. Mathematics describes energy as: E=MC2[<-squared]

If we want to say Energy = Unknown Information Beyond Human Language except for the mathematical description given above, then that seems reasonable to me.

Is there some other proof that E=Information?

From Wiki: In physics, energy is a property of objects, transferable among them via fundamental interactions, which can be converted into different forms but not created or destroyed.
 
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DaveM said:
I am being a devil's advocate. I brought a story about McKenna as a government agent. You seem to take offense at that. I frankly don't care about McKenna one way or another. I certainly don't have him on a pedestal.
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I haven't read or been a follower of McKenna either, but I was interested in what I read at the link provided by @LatentCauses. It makes sense that McKenna might have avoided a prison sentence (after returning to the US following his lengthy international sojourns and drug-trading activities) and been supp0rted in continuing his usual activities here because that was what the FBI wanted him to do. It's no secret that drugs were amply provided to 'disaffected youth' in the 60s and 70s to distract them from participating in the anti-war protests and broader political criticism of US government policies, or that cops in general have long traded freedom from prosecution for services rendered to the PTB.

I was a little surprised to read that McKenna's self-incriminating statement (as to his employment as a government agent) was made at Esalen, which the author claims was well-infiltrated by other such agents. I also know little about Essalen, though I'd had the impression that it at least began as a serious effort by academics and scientists to pursue what could be learned from Eastern meditation practices. Perhaps all 'counter-culture' developments spreading through the country beginning in the 60s alarmed the guardians of the status quo and inspired such infiltrations of agents. Indeed, CIA infiltration had already been the primary device employed to manipulate and eventually undermine the citizen ufo research groups in the 50s. What did the PTB desire as the outcome of these various infiltrations? An uncritical citizenry that would not pursue its own ufo investigations, would not protest unjustifiable wars, would not protest racism, would not propagate alternative ideologies, economic policies, and world views. Encouraging the use of mind-altering drugs was an effective way of diverting a younger generation from political action. Rather than changing the world at large, it became sufficient to change the world 'within'.
 
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LatentCauses said:
Very interested to hear his thinking that we can be done on a practical level is database development that allows us to find the correlations between the circumstances in which these anomalous experiences arise, and that this is what Vallee is up to at the moment. Apparently Vallee was heavily involved in an invitation only meeting of 100 scientists at the French Acedemy of Sciences last year looking into the question of data-gathering around the UFO phenomena.
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The following TEDx presentation by Vallee titled "The Theory of Everything (else)..." may be of interest. It's about the beginnings of an investigation into what he calls the "physics of information."

Many interesting nuggets in this very brief talk.

 
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