July 12, 2015 — Marie D. Jones

[Robert Baird]

Drugs and helpful social agencies are a major part of the real problem that many of the kids know first hand. The churches are often still in control inside school boards. A few years ago one Texas couple held sway over the curriculum development of the entire US. My lifelong significant other retired recently but is a top national official and World Congress of Teacher's participant. I could give another page of facts but people here seem intent on retaining their stupidity.

Ritalin is not a real or even decent solution. Proper nutrition, good curricula and considerate charismatic teaching with freedom to choose given to attendees (alternative schools) works so well that only about one half of one per cent of those having the gateway drug that can cause heart failure would be advised to take it. Schools are paid to hire psychologists and guess what happens - diagnosis goes up. Check out France and a totally different approach.

During the first Bush Presidential campaign there was a person still in jail in Massachusetts for cunnilingus. There are probably still a number of states where screwing sheep is on the books. Of course some women would rather their hubby did that and that was why many states never had the laws (Joke). Here is more to think about if you want the real issues of what causes alienation and why our society is so censored and uptight or screwed up.

I would be surprised if Iceland was the only place where Blasphemy Laws still existed in this supposedly free world. Even after the repeal of such laws there lingers elements of witch trials and Inquisitions in other laws and social systems. There are places in British Columbia that still allow Gideon Bibles and other Christian garbage into public schools. It may take another century before people really get free enough to begin to explore reality without dogma rattling around inside their heads or hearts.

"Blasphemy Law Abolished in Iceland! Press release July 2, 2015

Iceland’s parliament agreed today to abolish the blasphemy provision of the Criminal Code. The Pirate Party’s parliamentarians submitted the proposal in January, which received broad support from all other political parties in Parliament and the matter was unanimously supported by the committee examining the proposal. Icelanders have now taken an important step in guaranteeing human rights and joined other nations which respect freedom of speech and expression."

BC Humanist Blog

 

[Randall]

Drugs and helpful social agencies are a major part of the real problem that many of the kids know first hand. The churches are often still in control inside school boards. A few years ago one Texas couple held sway over the curriculum development of the entire US. My lifelong significant other retired recently but is a top national official and World Congress of Teacher's participant. I could give another page of facts but people here seem intent on retaining their stupidity.

Ritalin is not real and proper nutrition, good curricula and considerate charismatic teaching with freedom to choose given to attendees (alternative schools) works so well that only about one half of one per cent of those having the gateway drug that can cause heart failure would be advised to take it. Schools are paid to hire psychologists and guess what happens - diagnosis goes up, Check out France and a totally different approach.

During the first Bush Presidential campaign there was a person still in jail in Massachusetts for cunnilingus. There are probably still a number of states where screwing sheep is on the books. Of course some women would rather their hubby did that and that was why many states never had the laws (Joke). Here is more to think about if you want the real issues oif what causes alienation and why our society is so censored and uptight or screwed up.

I would be surprised if Iceland was the only place where Blasphemy Laws still existed in this supposedly free world. Even after the repeal of such laws there lingers elements of witch trials and Inquisitions in other laws and social systems. There are places in British Columbia that still allow Gideon Bibles and other Christian garbage into public schools. It may take another century before people really get free enough to begin to explore reality without dogma rattling around inside their heads or hearts.

"Blasphemy Law Abolished in Iceland! Press release July 2, 2015

Iceland’s parliament agreed today to abolish the blasphemy provision of the Criminal Code. The Pirate Party’s parliamentarians submitted the proposal in January, which received broad support from all other political parties in Parliament and the matter was unanimously supported by the committee examining the proposal. Icelanders have now taken an important step in guaranteeing human rights and joined other nations which respect freedom of speech and expression."

BC Humanist Blog

There's no question that religious institutions are one of the major players in the battle to control the minds of the masses, but I had no idea Iceland still had blasphemy laws until this year! Interesting tidbit. I thought they were so far beyond that with all their progressive environmentally friendly energy and such. Of course we still have to deal with religious extremism in many other parts of the world. I know we're supposed to be all politically correct and tolerant, but to me, those cultures seem culturally repressed.

 

[Robert Baird]

Professor John McKnight of Northwestern University (who worked with Ivan Illich as two of the most useful human beings you will ever study but have probably heard little about) ran a 25 year program in southside Chicago that took less money from the government and empowered people to help each other. IT worked!!!!!!!!!!!

His site (a few years ago) showed one of the logos of a group like the United Way with so called helping hands lifting a person up by the shoulders. He pointed out these groups do the opposite and alienate and push people into their place in the hierarchy (Neo-Platonic - see what I said about the Columbine kids above).

Eat Your Ritalin, Don't ask questions

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear UFO

You would do this world a favor if you could get the people running this shitshow to actually give a damn about what is really wrong and start to DO a little something to show they are agents for change. Not BS and finger-pointing - real change such as is needed by getting a real mass media content show worth being on all networks together. Is is less difficult to go viral with something real than it is to sell NONsense.

I will post this book here and hope you start a new thread after reading it. A thread challenging people to drop their ego and start taking real action, which requires leaving beliefs such as 'everyone has a right to their opinion' behind. Encouraging growth and the abstinence from all belief as long as the individual is not informed is a prerequisite to useful input - maybe real civics and social responsibility requires knowing the subject before voting.

It is not just the extreme individuals in the Mideast who present a problem in a society headed for ruination or apocalypse. The largest group I hold responsible are those who have no excuse. The people who have had everything given to them after having ripped off earlier people or having killed those people in genocidal religious backed rages. Yes, Americans and their corporate CIA backed greed which General Smedley Butler spoke eloquently about. But not just any Americans - no it is the supposed professional and helpful bureaucrats I hold responsible. Of course there are the pulpit pounding panderers to idiocy and alien intervention to consider as well. Rogues educated to risk manage and maintain illegal and immoral programs on Wall Street are not the target of this little tirade.

I am introducing a former Catholic expert on education whose study of Central American efforts to bring higher education there; saw him say it decreased the quality of life and drove people apart. He was excommunicated shortly after that and I followed his work for decades. In 'Limits to Medicine' he documented a mechanistic out of touch and destructive profession so well that the British Medical Journal 'Lancet' said it 'was a grapeshot across their bow'. He joined up with another great humanist and emancipating force by the name of Professor John McKnight. Even if it takes you four hours - if you have never understood why you are so screwed up or why you think the Illuminati did it (whatever you actually do when you reject independent thinking and seek easy answers) - read this book!

https://www.uvm.edu/~asnider/Ivan_Illich/Ivan_Illich_Disabling_Professions.pdf

 

[Randall]

Dear UFO

You would do this world a favor if you could get the people running this shitshow to actually give a damn about what is really wrong and start to DO a little something to show they are agents for change. Not BS and finger-pointing - real change such as is needed by getting a real mass media content show worth being on all networks together. Is is less difficult to go viral with something real than it is to sell NONsense.

I will post this book here and hope you start a new thread after reading it. A thread challenging people to drop their ego and start taking real action, which requires leaving beliefs such as 'everyone has a right to their opinion' behind. Encouraging growth and the abstinence from all belief as long as the individual is not informed is a prerequisite to useful input - maybe real civics and social responsibility requires knowing the subject before voting.

It is not just the extreme individuals in the Mideast who present a problem in a society headed for ruination or apocalypse. The largest group I hold responsible are those who have no excuse. The people who have had everything given to them after having ripped off earlier people or having killed those people in genocidal religious backed rages. Yes, Americans and their corporate CIA backed greed which General Smedley Butler spoke eloquently about. But not just any Americans - no it is the supposed professional and helpful bureaucrats I hold responsible. Of course there are the pulpit pounding panderers to idiocy and alien intervention to consider as well. Rogues educated to risk manage and maintain illegal and immoral programs on Wall Street are not the target of this little tirade.

I am introducing a former Catholic expert on education whose study of Central American efforts to bring higher education there; saw him say it decreased the quality of life and drove people apart. He was excommunicated shortly after that and I followed his work for decades. In 'Limits to Medicine' he documented a mechanistic out of touch and destructive profession so well that the British Medical Journal 'Lancet' said it 'was a grapeshot across their bow'. He joined up with another great humanist and emancipating force by the name of Professor John McKnight. Even if it takes you four hours - if you have never understood why you are so screwed up or why you think the Illuminati did it (whatever you actually do when you reject independent thinking and seek easy answers) - read this book!

https://www.uvm.edu/~asnider/Ivan_Illich/Ivan_Illich_Disabling_Professions.pdf

Thanks for the link. I'll have to check it out later.

I also empathize with your desire to see real change happen, but caution you about be too critical of the show. As you may have noticed, I also have my own website. It is connected with my Ufology interest group, which has been around for over 20 years. It's low-key, but we have a few thousand members, and Both Chris and Gene received Meritorious Achievement Awards for their contributions. Chris is an excellent researcher and writer who has spent many hours in field investigating cases, and Gene's contribution via the Paracast reaches thousands of people weekly on the radio. His longstanding experience and participation in the field has IMO now well established him in ufology culture.

That doesn't mean we always agree on everything. I've been banned from this forum in the past ( unfairly I think ), but that only goes to show that we're not in collusion or doing each other any special favors. We have our own opinions and ways of looking at the issues, and while nobody is perfect, I think Chris and Gene are doing an excellent job. The field could use more people like them. BTW, Chris' SLV camera project is a real-life effort to gather some scientifically meaningful evidence. He is doing something.

At the same time, I recognize your passion and motivation to express your views and see change happen. I like that. I empathize with it. The problem is everybody wants to see everyone else change so that they think the way they do, and everybody's got their own reasons that they think are better than everyone else's. Personally, I endeavor to find out the truth ( the objective truth based on correspondence between stated claims and the evidence confirming that such claims are accurate ). Yes, I think that's as good a reason as you can get, and therefore I also unapologetically think it's better than a lot of other motivations. Reach me on that level and you'll get my attention.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear UFO

Thanks for the advice or heads up. I guess I will soon be banned.

I posted the thread with the book and you have already responded to that thread with advice.

I do not accept the premise that anyone looking for aliens is actually doing Anything more than assuaging their ego or that of those whose attention they seek. Just as I don't buy any other boogey man probes in religion and other cult means of escaping reality.

But I do see kindred spirits in the field of UFOlogy who are willing to press for government exposure and disclosure. I guess that is about all I really share on the basic level - because I have been down the rest of the investigation road for decades and it leads to one and only one place - WE are responsible for what has happened and will happen.

 

[Randall]

Dear UFO

Thanks for the advice or heads up. I guess I will soon be banned.

I posted the thread with the book and you have already responded to that thread with advice.

I do not accept the premise that anyone looking for aliens is actually doing Anything more than assuaging their ego or that of those whose attention they seek. Just as I don't buy any other boogey man probes in religion and other cult means of escaping reality.

But I do see kindred spirits in the field of UFOlogy who are willing to press for government exposure and disclosure. I guess that is about all I really share on the basic level - because I have been down the rest of the investigation road for decades and it leads to one and only one place - WE are responsible for what has happened and will happen.

I wouldn't worry too much about being banned. This is the most tolerant forum I've ever run across. I'm just trying to pass along some advice based on my own experience. I've been away for a while and have taken time to reflect on my involvement, not only in my participation here, but in the field in general. While I haven't changed my core views or values, there are times when another approach to resolving differences of opinion might have been a better choice, and I'm reflecting on how to move forward with that in mind. If we want to initiate change, we need people not just to hear our words, but to absorb them and react to them in a way that helps to facilitate progress, even when there is disagreement. Otherwise our words are wasted, and that valuable effort is marginalized. We don't want others to marginalize our efforts, let alone to do that to ourselves.

 

[Robert Baird]

Truly stated. And it is also true that we can by pass the things we disagree about in order to make change we all agree about. That is why I am a champion of ecumenicism and have no difficulty finding grounds for agreement with every religious viewpoint other than certainty or extremist and dangerous demented viewpoints which even their leaders do not share.

 

[Sub-light]

We can talk about Homes and Lanza but if you want to look at "Manchurian Candidates" I would start looking at foreign countries and terrorist groups because there's a lot of bad crap going on with all these military base shootings. The latest yesterday in Chattanooga.
Also when it comes to corporate mind altering and media mind screwing, I would have to say as a person taking a Birdseye view looking from a distance. I would come to the conclusion that somebody out there wants us to prepare for the Apocalypse. There is so much negative apocalyptic imagery being thrown at us now. I work with teenagers and they are completely addicted to the zombie killing video games and zombie TV shows and apocalyptic movies. You turn on the news and it's nothing but horror. It's like were being turned into psychopaths. I remember a day when I used to go camping in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. No cell phone, no TV, no news paper, it was so cleansing.
I also remember a time when the TV news had a much greater balance of positive information, even during the Vietnam days and now look what it's become.
Anyway, great show I love UFOs but it was fun to take a little break.

 

[Robert Baird]

In WWII only a small percentage of soldiers wanted to KILL. Today the number exceeds 95% - sociologists attribute to what you say.

Unfortunately the same memes and archetypes you talk about regarding apocalyptic desires were ready to be activated in all Judaeo/Christian/Islamic cult members who follow scriptures with aliens as overlords.

Philip K. Dick takes it further and many are they who have made good money appealing to these long running scripts in our religions and media.

https://pages.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/kellner/essays/apocalypticphillipkdick.pdf

 

[Han]

From a distance it is easy to criticise and hard to understand, I am quite reluctant to be too critical because I don't live in the US and therefore don't understand all the issues surrounding vaccination. One thing I would like to know is how would ones medical insurance be affected: if you refused vaccination and then contracted the illness you could have been immunised against? would they still have to pay for your treatment, or would they be able to refuse on the grounds that you could have prevented it? Also would you be able to sue the person(s) who advised you against getting said vaccination?

Regarding guns and gun laws, over here you stand a much higher chance of being stabbed rather than shot, but in my opinion we have an equally violent society, I honestly cannot imagine how many more people would be killed if we allowed guns to be legalised.
My opinion is that it is quite difficult to stab somebody by accident, but quite easy to shoot someone by accident. Only last week an innocent bystander was murdered by criminals using an automatic weapon which thankfully is quite rare.

I have never visited the US but I hope to one day, and I think that the sight of the Police and the general public carrying guns, would be one of the biggest culture shocks I would get, don't get me wrong I have seen armed police many times (mostly at the airport) but the idea of PC Plod* being armed scares me, but not as much as knowing that I was surrounded by "average" people carrying guns, people here will fight at the drop of a hat or less for that matter (usually due to alcohol) but these fights are generally "personal" but obviously innocent people get hurt, but not as many as there would be if a gun(s) entered the equation.

Again this is only my opinion and I don't pretend to be well informed on all the issues, but guns seem to be so ingrained into the "American" mindset, that I do not foresee it changing anytime soon, but surely something has to be done to introduce stricter controls on who has access to guns, especially in terms of those with mental health issues?

I add my thoughts in the hope of offering a different perspective, so please disregard them, as opposed to being offended.

Best wishes.

P.S nearly forgot to say: very interesting and entertaining show


*Local police/Bobby.

 

[DaveM]

From a distance it is easy to criticise and hard to understand, I am quite reluctant to be too critical because I don't live in the US and therefore don't understand all the issues surrounding vaccination. One thing I would like to know is how would ones medical insurance be affected: if you refused vaccination and then contracted the illness you could have been immunised against? would they still have to pay for your treatment, or would they be able to refuse on the grounds that you could have prevented it? Also would you be able to sue the person(s) who advised you against getting said vaccination?

Regarding guns and gun laws, over here you stand a much higher chance of being stabbed rather than shot, but in my opinion we have an equally violent society, I honestly cannot imagine how many more people would be killed if we allowed guns to be legalised.
My opinion is that it is quite difficult to stab somebody by accident, but quite easy to shoot someone by accident. Only last week an innocent bystander was murdered by criminals using an automatic weapon which thankfully is quite rare.

I have never visited the US but I hope to one day, and I think that the sight of the Police and the general public carrying guns, would be one of the biggest culture shocks I would get, don't get me wrong I have seen armed police many times (mostly at the airport) but the idea of PC Plod* being armed scares me, but not as much as knowing that I was surrounded by "average" people carrying guns, people here will fight at the drop of a hat or less for that matter (usually due to alcohol) but these fights are generally "personal" but obviously innocent people get hurt, but not as many as there would be if a gun(s) entered the equation.

Again this is only my opinion and I don't pretend to be well informed on all the issues, but guns seem to be so ingrained into the "American" mindset, that I do not foresee it changing anytime soon, but surely something has to be done to introduce stricter controls on who has access to guns, especially in terms of those with mental health issues?

I add my thoughts in the hope of offering a different perspective, so please disregard them, as opposed to being offended.

Best wishes.

P.S nearly forgot to say: very interesting and entertaining show


*Local police/Bobby.

I would be more concerned about violence breaking out at one of your soccer matches than an American policeman carrying a firearm.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

…I could give another page of facts but people here seem intent on retaining their stupidity…

What is up with you? You come here, post reams of pages like you own the place; get into fracases with folks, call people names and then call everyone here "stupid"!? I can tell by your tone and by the way you are attempting to splash the pool dry, that you think you're the only one that knows everything about anything and that YOU are right and everyone else (who doesn't genuflect at the altar of Baird) is wrong. That's no way to make friends and influence people, dude. To be honest, some of us are getting tired having to count your nose hairs, so please chill out and get off your throne. Thanks in advance for your attitude adjustment and playing nice with the other kids... sheesh

 

[Randall]

What is up with you? You come here, post reams of pages like you own the place; get into fracases with folks, call people names and then call everyone here "stupid"!? I can tell by your tone and by the way you are attempting to splash the pool dry, that you think you're the only one that knows everything about anything and that YOU are right and everyone else (who doesn't genuflect at the altar of Baird) is wrong. That's no way to make friends and influence people, dude. To be honest, some of us are getting tired having to count your nose hairs, so please chill out and get off your throne. Thanks in advance for your attitude adjustment and playing nice with the other kids... sheesh

LOL, and you thought I was bad. Having just returned to the forum, I was trying to give RB the benefit of the doubt because there's some good content in some of his posts, and he seemed to show a lot of passion and enthusiasm. But if his intent is "RIGHT THINKING = RIGHT ACTION" ( as he has said in a couple of posts ), then judging by his actions I'm now finding myself questioning his thinking. I'm seeing too much proclaiming, provocative editorializing, and one-sided discussion ( for my taste ). I'd prefer more non-inflammatory interactive analysis of the issues, and I'm disappointed in how much the forum seems to have deteriorated in general. Maybe it was inevitable. I don't know. What should we participants do? BTW, I sent you an email via your website and haven't heard anything back ( just in case there is a problem there ).

 

[CincyKid]

Cincykid said:

To me seeing the Lanza and Holmes shootings as mind control is a way for gun manufacturers and ardent gun enthusiasts to distance themselves from the reality that we do have a culture with people who are mentally ill or have violence or anger issues who have a great deal of access to pretty powerful weapons. In a way that meme {What meme? Is he referring to the phrase "guns don't kill"? Does he know what a meme is?} is its own form of gun control. Just the phrase "guns don't kill, people do" has a double meaning, the major one being that guns themselves are not dangerous and do not have lethality. {Is that true? I don't like the gun lobby but I think they are saying people need guns to protect themselves from nutcases including those who abuse power and are in government. They point to Constitutional and founding father's statements out of context. But they are not saying guns do not have a lethal component.} It is has created a mindset where people don't store {Is the phrase 'away from' missing here?} guns from their small children, or in the case of Lanza mother providing a child social dysfunction the means and training to 27 souls in less than 4 minutes.

I can give you a good definition of "meme" but if it is a new concept Google the terms "Meme Dawkins" and there are a number of articles on "Memes" to be found. The Wikipedia article is somewhat okay.

The double meaning of the phrase about guns is still true. There is kind of post modern deconstructionist aspect to that phrase. Whoever came up with that phrase was brilliant. Operationally, it has two different meanings and if feeds into a cavalier attitude towards guns and gun safety.

Have had a number conversation and discussions online with gun people who are pretty clear that guns don't kill people or have lethality. "They are just tools." With that said, guns have never killed anyone.

Have addressed the sentence run-on another post and stuff happens and run-on sentences can get out of hand sometimes in the scheme of things as everyone well knows in this period and time and history.

She is correct in that the mass killings have had little or no positive effect for gun control people in the US. If they are used for control I'll go along with Andy Colvin's views on the subject. His view is that if they are created events they there to serve up fear for the purpose of serving up fear. On a core level in my view they are to remind us of our mortality. Sex and death are big motivators.

Appreciated you comments.

 

[Wade]

LOL, and you thought I was bad. Having just returned to the forum, I was trying to give RB the benefit of the doubt because there's some good content in some of his posts, and he seemed to show a lot of passion and enthusiasm. But if his intent is "RIGHT THINKING = RIGHT ACTION" ( as he has said in a couple of posts ), then judging by his actions I'm now finding myself questioning his thinking. I'm seeing too much proclaiming, provocative editorializing, and one-sided discussion ( for my taste ). I'd prefer more non-inflammatory interactive analysis of the issues, and I'm disappointed in how much the forum seems to have deteriorated in general. Maybe it was inevitable. I don't know. What should we participants do? BTW, I sent you an email via your website and haven't heard anything back ( just in case there is a problem there ).

I always thought a rolled up newspaper did just the trick.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I'd prefer more non-inflammatory interactive analysis of the issues, and I'm disappointed in how much the forum seems to have deteriorated in general. Maybe it was inevitable.

Two people are allowed to commit continuous SLANDER with false allegations that I'm a criminal. Seriously! Those two people are Mike and Heidi. Don't believe it? Check out this post AND go to the links in that post too! Mike and Heidi repeatedly have hounded me in the Roswell Slide thread too making slanderous and false allegations that I'm a criminal.

Insane?

How DO Aliens get here and why do they crash? | Page 3 | The Paracast Community Forums

Being Hacked Online Criminally is Easy! | The Paracast Community Forums

See Mike's and Heidi's posts in the Roswell Slide thread too. Start here and read forward from this point:

The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online | Page 42 | The Paracast Community Forums

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Chris

I am not interested in making friends - I am interested in making this world a better place. If in the process of sharing and real caring I make a friend I will know it means more than if I just kissed ass and went along with the lynch mob who does not want to read or address the facts. At any time anyone here can take apart what I say (the actual facts) and debate them - or instead they can seek the approbation of group think Kangaroo Courts.

Fritz Perls said it something like this.

I am not in this world to live up to your expectations. I know you are not in this world to live up to mine. But if in sharing we find each other... it's beautiful."

Dear Wade

The law of the Magi (one of three) is RIGHT THOUGHT = RIGHT ACTION. I have spent my whole life trying to understand it. If one studies very hard for all of three lives (I am told.) they will grok it. As to the state of this forum - if people do not want to read they don't have to. They can continue stroking egos and being cult members.

Dear CincyKid

MUCH better. I will now give you the benefit of the doubt though the words still confuse me as to who says a gun is not lethal

Yes, the zealots are idiots and will (like all cultists) just mouth authorized or agreed upon positions. To not think deeply and see how silly it is to say guns don't kill just because they want to think only idiots are the ones who do, is patently wrong. They accept donations from fools and nutjobs or have had leaders like Charlton Heston who was suffering severe loss of mental faculties even as he was their spokesperson. As you say "it feeds into a cavalier attitude towards guns and gun safety".

 

[Burnt State]

And while I know I can be an essayist myself, I think the criticisms made along the way, Robert, point out that some versions of personal truth are just too big and vast and work better in book form as opposed to posts to respond to. You're also cutting and pasting from other forums which makes your intentions a little suspect. Is this about engaging us in new ideas or is this about asserting yourself? What's the end game here, as trying to discuss points often get spun into even more tangents as opposed to staying on point. And you are right, everyone is free to ignore, but it's a place of engagemnt and works well that way. Looking down your nose at people and the insults are in conflict with the many good ideologies you promote. I get that you are quite worldly and may even have lived all the lives you have proposed here but there's no way a sturgeon can get to thirty-five feet long, or it would have been caught on River Monsters by now. Maybe if you slow it down, space it out with some respect, you might make room for the engagement you are looking for or does that matter? Because the ideas are interesting but do you have a throttle to ease up on or is this about something else?

And if not a book is a good idea as suggested previously, because you can really bang out the words.

Edit: As I re-read this post I can admit none of the irony here is lost on me at all.

 

[Robert Baird]

Dear Burnt

YOU should read Seven Steps and follow the precepts of Active Listening.

A joke about a size of the Sturgeons in the Great Lakes - I guess. They definitely grew larger than 35 feet before 1860 when the population was being attacked with trawlers dragging nets. They live a long time. In the 1970s a dead one washed up on the shores of Lake St. Clair which was 22 feet and just 800 pounds. A book we have at our cottage showing the harvest year by year before 1908 or so also said the large ones exceeded 1200 pounds.

Now how did you do at staying on point in this thread? Or are you going to join in the yo-yo routine too. Where no thread is above silly attacks?


There are no issues so big or vast as you suggest. A Theory of Everything can be understood by the lamest or most uneducated person if they actually READ. That is according to Einstein.

Take any post of mine and ask if your interpretation of what I am saying is correct. Step ONE.

I will take your interpretation and add where I think we are getting off course. Step TWO.

You present your opposing view with all the detail you can muster on that part of the larger issue.
Step THREE.

I present my interpretation of what you said in my words. Step FOUR.

And so it goes - IF (a big word) there is sincere intent and not mere tomfoolery at heart.