July 2010 Kepler: Millions of earth-like planets

[Ron Collins]

I don't think that it negates the laws of known physics - but there's lots we don't know that more advanced civilizations do know, if they are indeed out there.

Watching from advanced telescopes isn't far fetched at all. It's finding a way to physically get here that is the giant step.

What I mean is that they are already in space traveling around within our Galaxy searching for an visiting visiting "class M planets" to use Star Trek jargon.

There wouldn't be a law of physics to violate, just the laws of probability. I think we dust off the Drake equation for a little help.

 

[justcurious]

Maybe it might like ice-cream

We DO know they like pancakes... Ask Joe Simonton...



Skeptics want solid proof but we already have been given solid food ...

Eagle River Close Encounter (man given 'pancakes' by UFO occupants) - Eagle River, Wisconsin, United States - April 18, 1961 - UFO Evidence

 

[tyder001]

I have seen nothing that convinces me we are being visited by "aliens" from space. I have seen things I can't explain so I keep an open mind. But I honestly don't think U.F.O.'s are nuts and bolts spacecraft. I don't think we will find "intelligent" life "out there." But, if we do or if "they" (if there is any they) find us then I guess I'll have to re-think it.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I have seen nothing that convinces me we are being visited by "aliens" from space. I have seen things I can't explain so I keep an open mind. But I honestly don't think U.F.O.'s are nuts and bolts spacecraft. I don't think we will find "intelligent" life "out there." But, if we do or if "they" (if there is any they) find us then I guess I'll have to re-think it.

Well, there's no re-thinking. If solid evidence presents itself you have to accept it. However, I can think of several things that have solid evidence and people deny that they exist.

 

[tyder001]

Well, there's no re-thinking. If solid evidence presents itself you have to accept it. However, I can think of several things that have solid evidence and people deny that they exist.

Well, I gotta tell ya re-think or no re-think I don't "think" I'll have that problem. But, I'm no "debunker." I just don't "personally" think there is anything to it and I don't think we will be meeting "Spaceman Spiff" anytime soom. But, again it's a big ole universe and I could be wrong. Don't think I am but ya just never know.

 

[Ezechiel]

That's actually kind of depressing. Given what we currently know, maybe only 1 in a million of those earths will develop complex life and given the further odds of developing intelligent life and the vast seperations of time between us and them it really could just be us here, approximately one intelligent species per galaxy, seperated by immensse gulfs of time and space.

Poo.

IMHO, extrapolating from our current point of reference may not be the best idea.

Extrapolating from the progression undergone from point -2.5 billion earth year to now is a better vector to gauge the future and the potential wide presence and movement of sentient life forms throughout this galaxy.

Structured inorganic environments with the required base elements seem to have enabled complex organic matter. The outcome of this 2.5 billion year evolutionary process has produced humans... to what end ?

One explanation that comes to mind is the propagation and protection of life. Sentient life is potentially this universe's ultimate expression of complexity and as our star slowly dies out, the life forms that can, have to reach out and propagate to other solar systems before time runs out lol.

In the ETH, this is one scenario where level 1 sentients could fit

... level 3 sentients are probably trying to dig tunnels to other universes before the big crunch or the big tear (whatever pans out lol)

 

[tyder001]

It doesn't hurt to dream. I don't want to be a party pooper so I'm gonna turn off my "skepticism" on this subject and just hush.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

2.5 billion earth year

What an outlandish statement. Everyone knows that the Earth can't be older than 10 000 years. Just ask Sarah Palin!

 

[Ezechiel]

What an outlandish statement. Everyone knows that the Earth can't be older than 10 000 years. Just ask Sarah Palin!

LOL... you're being generous. According to YEC (Young earth creationists).. it can't be more than 6000 years old.

I'd love to meet a YEC that accepts ETH. I'd ask him whether he thinks humans are retarded since we don't have the same technology and we've existed for the same amount of time (6000 years)... they can visit us and we can't visit them

Can you really have a sane view of ETH wearing evangelical christian glasses ?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

LOL... you're being generous. According to YEC (Young earth creationists).. it can't be more than 6000 years old.

I'd love to meet a YEC that accepts ETH. I'd ask him whether he thinks humans are retarded since we don't have the same technology and we've existed for the same amount of time (6000 years)... they can visit us and we can't visit them

Can you really have a sane view of ETH wearing evangelical christian glasses ?

Since I see you live in Quebec as I do, you won't find too many young earthers here. I like to think that we're pretty secular over here.

 

[Ezechiel]

Since I see you live in Quebec as I do, you won't find too many young earthers here. I like to think that we're pretty secular over here.

Don't forget that 50 years ago Quebec was more religious than Iran. The church had dominion over populations and politics. Books, movies... and all types of entertainment were reviewed and censured by the catholic church.

It's amusing to watch Sarah Palin and her evangelical orgasms... but we were not that far from that not so long ago Division of church and state in the U.S...... hmmmm not so sure. G.W. Bush sure translated the long arm of evangelical lobbyists into stem cell research bans...etc..

Lucky to have something like the Paracast

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Don't forget that 50 years ago Quebec was more religious than Iran. The church had dominion over populations and politics. Books, movies... and all types of entertainment were reviewed and censured by the catholic church.

It's amusing to watch Sarah Palin and her evangelical orgasms... but we were not that far from that not so long ago Division of church and state in the U.S...... hmmmm not so sure. G.W. Bush sure translated the long arm of evangelical lobbyists into stem cell research bans...etc..

Lucky to have something like the Paracast

A lot has changed in the last 50 years though. We still have our problems though.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

What an outlandish statement. Everyone knows that the Earth can't be older than 10 000 years. Just ask Sarah Palin!

I don't think Palin ever publicly said the Earth is only 10,000 years old. A fake email made the rounds across the internet years ago full of totally made-up comments. Apparently she does believe in Creationism though, but I've come across many Christians who believe in God AND evolution, or who believe in some parts of the bible but not others, or who take the bible as allegorical to some extent. I don't think one can categorically say that anyone who is a Christian or a creationist automatically also thinks the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Perhaps it's a bit inconstant to pick and choose like that - but everyone does it in some shape or form although they don't see it in themselves.

The whole subject of reconciling modern religions like Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc with science is an interesting topic. My wife's father is extremely intelligent - a virtual walking dictionary on the civil war as well as pretty much all ancient history. He worked his entire life as a top chemical engineer for a company that disarms stockpiles of nuclear and chemical weapons, and he does not suffer fools gladly. Yet despite all this he considers himself a devout Catholic. When talking to him about physics, science, or mathematics he seems like the last person on Earth you'd think is super-religious. Oh well.. pretty much 99 percent of humanity acts and thinks in ways I can't really get on board with.

As for life-bearing planets - I think a few huge holes still exist in our understanding of all the factors involved. The Drake Equation is a one huge series of huge guesses after another. Who in the hell can remotely asses the likelihood that highly intelligent life will develop? You can be off by a factor of millions or billions either way without knowing it since it's all wild guess after wild guess. Thus N might equal 1 or it might equal 100,000. I think the Drake equation is basically useless. For all we know, this universe was created by another ET race as an experiment. Who can say what the limits are for a life form that may have evolved trillions of "our" years ago in some other universe? Reality could be a simulation. An illusion or sorts. at that point religion and metaphysics come into play again - The difference between a "god" and hyper-aliens who control all laws of physics within their pet universe becomes merely semantic. That alien intelligence that created and runs the simulation we call reality would be, in effect, our omnipotent god.

Disregarding more esoteric "universe simulation" type scenarios, I personally see humanity (or our digital/synthetic descendants) perhaps equally likely to be the first "big boys" on the interstellar block as I do ascribing that honor to someone else. I'm all for the "we aren't the center of the universe" stuff, but intelligent life just might be one of those topics where we are truly "the only game in town." I don't base that on human egotism, but simply the recognition that we know far too little about the universe to take a definitive view one way or the other.

Is it so inconceivable to consider that the universe IS fated to have numerous civilizations, but only a billion years from now, and WE are the first in that eventual long list. Someone has to be first. Since we don't have a grasp of what all goes into the statistical likelihood of life in space, we cant really say where along the timeline everything falls. Perhaps life is so rare that an intelligent species only pops up every few billion years and another species will naturally get there 2.5 billion years from now in a planetary system that is only now cooling down enough for organic compounds to get assembled. Perhaps our own descendants will be the real "star people" of future alien civilizations who came down and spurred evolution along. THEY will be the ones truly living in a Universe where n = many, and they will postulate that the universe should contain life but they don't see any signs of it. Oh the irony

 

[Ezechiel]

THEY will be the ones truly living in a Universe where n = many, and they will postulate that the universe should contain life but they don't see any signs of it. Oh the irony

1803 - atomic theory
John Dalton, English chemist, revived the term of the atom when he suggested that each element was made up of unique atoms and the atoms of an element are all the same. He formulated his theory that chemical reactions result from the union and separation of these atoms and that atoms have characteristic properties.
Combinations of atoms bound to each other he designated as molecules

We predicted atomic structure way before we could observe it

And now we have tools to observe them
http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?NewsID=14498

The quantum gas microscope developed by Greiner and his colleagues is a high-resolution device capable of viewing single atoms -- in this case, atoms of rubidium -- occupying individual, closely spaced lattice sites. The rubidium atoms are cooled to just 5 billionths of a degree above absolute zero (-273 degrees Celsius).


Patience young padawan .... patience. Always in a hurry this young skywalker.

 

[Ron Collins]

I don't think Palin ever publicly said the Earth is only 10,000 years old.

She also never publicly denied it. Even after all the jokes and backlash. Sometimes its what you don't say.

 

[Slim Shady]

Seems there are signs of life on planets and moons in our own solar system , i remember a news report ages ago about there maybe life on jupitor (about 2 years) existing in the clouds , i personally believe life is like a epidemic in the universe that can never be fully wiped out like the flu =)

 

[Frank Stalter]

Seems there are signs of life on planets and moons in our own solar system , i remember a news report ages ago about there maybe life on jupitor (about 2 years) existing in the clouds , i personally believe life is like a epidemic in the universe that can never be fully wiped out like the flu =)

You've got some pretty good company in that.

James Watson - Biography

 

[Ron Collins]

Is it so inconceivable to consider that the universe IS fated to have numerous civilizations, but only a billion years from now, and WE are the first in that eventual long list. Someone has to be first. Since we don't have a grasp of what all goes into the statistical likelihood of life in space, we cant really say where along the timeline everything falls. Perhaps life is so rare that an intelligent species only pops up every few billion years and another species will naturally get there 2.5 billion years from now in a planetary system that is only now cooling down enough for organic compounds to get assembled. Perhaps our own descendants will be the real "star people" of future alien civilizations who came down and spurred evolution along. THEY will be the ones truly living in a Universe where n = many, and they will postulate that the universe should contain life but they don't see any signs of it. Oh the irony

I meant to reply to this much earlier but didn't have long. I agree that we don't really know enough to make an truly accurate statistical projection. The equation itself is pointless. Only compounding its pointlessness is it's use to justify the ridiculous sums of money that pour into SETI each year. Radio telescope time ain't cheap.