July 8, 2018 — Don Ecker with J. Randall Murphy

[Randall]

I was just listening to ATP and Randall your hide is pretty thick. Don can talk all the air out of a room. He probably talks in his sleep - and argues. Pedantic. When you get to something interesting related to the 21st century I'll be right here waiting.

Thanks for the comment. I really do find the Golden Age and Early Modern Era of Ufology to be the most interesting, but I also understand how people already familiar with it could be tired of hearing the same old - same old, over and over again. The problem these days is that the quality of evidence required to get above the noise is so high that the average citizen like you or I aren't going to make any real difference unless the aliens openly reveal themselves and allow hundreds or thousands of people and TV stations to take HD video that can be independently verified.

Even then, we'd still need a mothership tour to confirm that it's actually alien, or there will be those who figure it's ours. Due to this problem I've almost given up on the whole subject and moved on to something else. All I can do at the moment is work on trying to foster respect for ufology by updating the USI website for those still new to the field, and by participating here and on the show when I have the opportunity. That being said, there are times when I feel there is a definite shift in the overall public perception of the phenomenon, and that perhaps disclosure isn't just a pipe dream. Like you, when they ( the one with the goods ) have something for us, I'll be here.

 

[Bergen]

Listening to these episodes made me wonder if there are other Bob Lazar episodes in the archives ?

@Gene Steinberg

 

[Randall]

Listening to these episodes made me wonder if there are other Bob Lazar episodes in the archives ?

I don't think so, but coming soon, a feature documentary featuring the only guy we know who says he likes to avoid publicity because it's bad for business, Bob Lazar himself:

​

Counterpoint: Stanton Friedman - Articles: The Bob Lazar Fraud

 

[Bergen]

I don't think so, but coming soon, a feature documentary featuring the only guy we know who says he likes to avoid publicity because it's bad for business, Bob Lazar himself:

​

Counterpoint: Stanton Friedman - Articles: The Bob Lazar Fraud

Very nice ! When is it out ?

 

[Randall]

Very nice ! When is it out ?

It says December. But who knows? You'd need to check the site or contact the producers for anything more specific.

 

[Decker]

Well, dang nab it! Bill Cooper got me? This crap is over 20 years old and bull shit. I was injured in a training accident, never claimed otherwise. But believe any thing you wish, I could care less. I noticed you are hiding behind that keyboard ... do you feel big now? Trying to rehabilitate Bill Cooper is like trying to put lipstick on a pig. When its over all you have is a pig wearing lipstick.

Cooper was a lying asshole, Vicki, my wife is from here. Working for the Mayflower Madam? Total made up bullshit. Like he reported on Lazar being a drug dealer. You are sad my man.

Decker

 

[Decker]

FCSeven, by the way .. at some point in the past you and I tangled ... still were trying to push the Driver shot JFK bullshit. As far as Grant Cooper ... I posted the cover of the magazine right here for the world to see.

Beyond a pale horse William Cooper

So, lets say you take some time off and cool your heels ... and in a month or so we will see how you act then.

Decker

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Great show Don , Randall and Gene
Also listening to Don's show reminded of odd folks activity . Remember one time while at a shopping centre there was a pretty lady who was acting strangely with the fridge doors . . She proceeded to be intrested in its a.c. and kept pushing whole body inside, not just once more like twenty odd times.
The workers were watching gobsmacked while most folks just walked by unknown to this lady activities. Another time a lady who arrived with her partner were looking at the same thing acting very bazaar. These two were quite tall and not fitting with the general public. Anyway reminds me of the authors John Keel and Ingo Swann.

 

[Randall]

Great show Don , Randall and Gene ...

Thanks! And weird story about the lady trying to crawl into the cooler. Mind you there have been times when I've gone to get something from a store cooler and found the shelf empty, but could see the overstock product just beyond and out of reach, and it's been very tempting at times to try to retrieve it rather than go fishing for a stock person.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Thanks! And weird story about the lady trying to crawl into the cooler. Mind you there have been times when I've gone to get something from a store cooler and found the shelf empty, but could see the overstock product just beyond and out of reach, and it's been very tempting at times to try to retrieve it rather than go fishing for a stock person.

Yes especially when it's hot (this day was cold ) and this was food refrigerator not large cooler USI Calgary.

 

[pigfarmer]

Com with me to a b

Great show Don , Randall and Gene
Also listening to Don's show reminded of odd folks activity . Remember one time while at a shopping centre there was a pretty lady who was acting strangely with the fridge doors . . She proceeded to be intrested in its a.c. and kept pushing whole body inside, not just once more like twenty odd times.
The workers were watching gobsmacked while most folks just walked by unknown to this lady activities. Another time a lady who arrived with her partner were looking at the same thing acting very bazaar. These two were quite tall and not fitting with the general public. Anyway reminds me of the authors John Keel and Ingo Swann.

Come with me to a big WalMart at ten o'clock at night and you'll see all that and then some. I think it really IS a training ground for retilians who haven't yet learned to fully mimic human behavior. Channeling Dr.David Jacob? Disturbing.

For today's non-sequitur: I just read a story about a woman who crawled into a trash compactor and guess what? Squished to death. Go figure - I mean, the three second rule doesn't apply to trash compactors does it? People do so many ***ed up things just because it's hard to say where aberrant behavior actually begins. Can be entertaining to see where it goes along the way ......

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Yes alsorts of reason for human odd activities and regarding refrigerator incident its possible individual was on some type of substance . Thus reducing thier body temperature and A.I technology interference with humans in the future is growing possibility.

 

[Randall]

... and A.I technology interference with humans in the future is growing possibility.

Well, more and more people are getting voluntary RFID implants, so who knows? Maybe someday the defense that "Siri made me do it!" might actually be admissible in court.

 

[GlitteringBadger]

Don's anger about Cooper--and toward some in this thread--says much. To discuss Cooper's importance to fringe culture in the 90s is not to rehabilitate him. Ecker, in my opinion, has a view of Cooper with a huge (but understandable) blind spot about the man's significance because of the unfounded ad hominem by Cooper attacks on Don and Vicki Ecker.

But Ecker's a grumpy guy. Gotta respect someone who lives their gimmick.

Cooper's significance to the fringe is real and deserves to be discussed dispassionately and without rancor. Listen to episodes of The Hour of the Time and you'll see where Alex Jones (the Paracast's network stablemate) gets his schtick, for just one example. Folks like Al Cuppett listened to Cooper's NWO invasion stuff and made it their own--and are still pushing it. His discussion of symbolic language--reminiscent of Manly Hall and James Shelby Downard--was, in many ways, lifted wholesale by David Icke. The UFO stuff was a very small part of Cooper's place in the world of the weird. Pity we didn't hear more a more comprehensive, well rounded perspective in this interview (or rant, whatever).

For good insight on Cooper, I would recommend two books. First, Heaven's Hammers by Steve Fillerup, who was one of the federal agents assigned to Cooper's case. Second is Conspiracy Theories by Aaron John Gulyas, who does a good job illustrating Cooper's role as a conduit between late 80s UFOlogy and the far right. There are a number of scholars who've studied Cooper and his ilk over the years. I wish the Paracast would book such people instead a rotating lineup of has beens and never weres.

A bit much for a first post, but hey.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Watch the attacks please. We are always happy to consider potential guests.​

 

[Randall]

Don's anger about Cooper--and toward some in this thread--says much. To discuss Cooper's importance to fringe culture in the 90s is not to rehabilitate him. Ecker, in my opinion, has a view of Cooper with a huge (but understandable) blind spot about the man's significance because of the unfounded ad hominem by Cooper attacks on Don and Vicki Ecker.

But Ecker's a grumpy guy. Gotta respect someone who lives their gimmick.

Cooper's significance to the fringe is real and deserves to be discussed dispassionately and without rancor. Listen to episodes of The Hour of the Time and you'll see where Alex Jones (the Paracast's network stablemate) gets his schtick, for just one example. Folks like Al Cuppett listened to Cooper's NWO invasion stuff and made it their own--and are still pushing it. His discussion of symbolic language--reminiscent of Manly Hall and James Shelby Downard--was, in many ways, lifted wholesale by David Icke. The UFO stuff was a very small part of Cooper's place in the world of the weird. Pity we didn't hear more a more comprehensive, well rounded perspective in this interview (or rant, whatever).

For good insight on Cooper, I would recommend two books. First, Heaven's Hammers by Steve Fillerup, who was one of the federal agents assigned to Cooper's case. Second is Conspiracy Theories by Aaron John Gulyas, who does a good job illustrating Cooper's role as a conduit between late 80s UFOlogy and the far right. There are a number of scholars who've studied Cooper and his ilk over the years. I wish the Paracast would book such people instead a rotating lineup of has beens and never weres.

A bit much for a first post, but hey.

Good post and welcome to the forum! I completely agree that all ( or nearly all ) aspects of ufology should be able to be discussed "dispassionately and without rancor". I guess the problem is interpreting exactly what constitutes "dispassionate". For example, I sometimes use the word "nonsense" very dispassionately in the sense that a post relays no logically coherent information, or appears to contribute more to confusion than clarity ( at least for me ), but it is often taken as some kind of personal attack ( when it's nothing of the sort ). It's simply an observation on my part, and I'm happy to be corrected if it's in error. People have a tough time getting outside their own ketchup bottles.

 

[pigfarmer]

Don's anger about Cooper--and toward some in this thread--says much. To discuss Cooper's importance to fringe culture in the 90s is not to rehabilitate him. Ecker, in my opinion, has a view of Cooper with a huge (but understandable) blind spot about the man's significance because of the unfounded ad hominem by Cooper attacks on Don and Vicki Ecker.

But Ecker's a grumpy guy. Gotta respect someone who lives their gimmick.

Cooper's significance to the fringe is real and deserves to be discussed dispassionately and without rancor. Listen to episodes of The Hour of the Time and you'll see where Alex Jones (the Paracast's network stablemate) gets his schtick, for just one example. Folks like Al Cuppett listened to Cooper's NWO invasion stuff and made it their own--and are still pushing it. His discussion of symbolic language--reminiscent of Manly Hall and James Shelby Downard--was, in many ways, lifted wholesale by David Icke. The UFO stuff was a very small part of Cooper's place in the world of the weird. Pity we didn't hear more a more comprehensive, well rounded perspective in this interview (or rant, whatever).

For good insight on Cooper, I would recommend two books. First, Heaven's Hammers by Steve Fillerup, who was one of the federal agents assigned to Cooper's case. Second is Conspiracy Theories by Aaron John Gulyas, who does a good job illustrating Cooper's role as a conduit between late 80s UFOlogy and the far right. There are a number of scholars who've studied Cooper and his ilk over the years. I wish the Paracast would book such people instead a rotating lineup of has beens and never weres.

A bit much for a first post, but hey.

Well put and very refreshing!

 

[Ian]

Anyone else feel that Don was being a tad curt with J. Randall? When asked clarifying questions his annoyance was palpable. Now, I'm all for Don's rancontouring, but J. (who was billed as the co-host) spoke about 1/100th the amount Don did. Anyway, good show nonetheless.

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Maybe Randall was getting a bit frustrated with Ecker's meandering and rambling replies. I know I was. A couple of times Randall nudged Ecker to get to the point. Ecker came across as resenting that. Maybe he did.

 

[Decker]

Maybe Randall was getting a bit frustrated with Ecker's meandering and rambling replies. I know I was. A couple of times Randall nudged Ecker to get to the point. Ecker came across as resenting that. Maybe he did.

Well all, sorry if you found this to be a bit rambling. The fact of the matter is .. this was UFO history and history that I lived. Not to be too much of a curmudgeon but, nobody was forcing you to listen. What most of you don't know, nor probably give a damn about, was the amount of damage Cooper did to the overall UFO field. Oh, he was certainly not the first nor will he be the last ... but when we were publishing UFO Magazine we cared about the field. Something else concerning most of you ... to you this is a hobby, something to wile away with your free time, something you do when you aren't doing something else. This is what I did, this was my job and I cared about it. I doubt if many of you will understand ... and if you don't ... too bad.

Decker

 

[guestron]

Well all, sorry if you found this to be a bit rambling. The fact of the matter is .. this was UFO history and history that I lived. Not to be too much of a curmudgeon but, nobody was forcing you to listen. What most of you don't know, nor probably give a damn about, was the amount of damage Cooper did to the overall UFO field. Oh, he was certainly not the first nor will he be the last ... but when we were publishing UFO Magazine we cared about the field. Something else concerning most of you ... to you this is a hobby, something to wile away with your free time, something you do when you aren't doing something else. This is what I did, this was my job and I cared about it. I doubt if many of you will understand ... and if you don't ... too bad.

Decker

I do not feel that this is a response that reflects my comment. I simply pointed out that I found your tone to be a bit abrasive when J. Randall was simply asking qualifying questions. The After the Paracast interview was even more abrasive. Now, I like listening to you Mr. Ecker, I think you are quite fascinating and do not doubt any of your experiences, especually with Cooper who no sane person could regard as anything but a maniac, so it doesn't sit well with me that you are pointing out the obvious fact that I needn't listen. And while I find the curmudgeonly part of you personality I was just a little taken aback by your frustration with J. Randall.

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