Khamenei Speaks Up For His Pet Monkey...

[Kevin Daly]

I wasn't surprised when he trotted out the Zionists, but Waco?
Hmmmm....
Seriously, has anyone ever seen him and Jeff Rense in a room at the same time?

Time for some Dylan I think:

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

 

[threed]

I feel sorry for khamenei. Can you imagine the difficulties involved in running an obvious theocracy and trying to convince your population that they have a democracy? How must that screw with your mind! Poor man.

 

[methshin]

Khamenei isn't even a real Ayatollah, he had the iranian constitution changed so that he could be the supreme ruler and have the title of Grand Ayatollah granted to him, without completing the necessary training to earn such a title.

Not surprising that these events have turned out the way they did. A real Islamist views the death of one person equivalent to the death of all humanity, these people in charge obviously don't share this view.

I have a hell of a lot of respect for ACTUAL Islamic practitioners, it's a shame that Khamenei and Ahmedinejad are able to get away with tainting its reputation.

 

[threed]

A real Islamist views the death of one person equivalent to the death of all humanity, these people in charge obviously don't share this view.

That is, unless you're not islamic. Then you're fair game. (But, of course, I can only base this on the koran.)

 

[methshin]

That is, unless you're not islamic. Then you're fair game. (But, of course, I can only base this on the koran.)

the Qur'an?

I think you might want to reread it. It states that all non islamists must be given the benefit of the doubt that they may see the light and switch over.

 

[skunkape]

Can you imagine the difficulties involved in running an obvious theocracy and trying to convince your population that they have a democracy?

Corporate controlled media, with much cooperation and assistance from Washington, D.C. has done a surprisingly good job of it here the U.S.
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[threed]

I think you might want to reread it. It states that all non islamists must be given the benefit of the doubt that they may see the light and switch over.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah

[4:196 ] 'None has the right to be worshiped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshiped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

[8.12] I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

On and on it goes. It's a pretty whacko book written by an obvious ranting, raving sociopath..

 

[methshin]

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah

[4:196 ] 'None has the right to be worshiped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshiped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

[8.12] I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

On and on it goes. It's a pretty whacko book written by an obvious ranting, raving sociopath..

(005:032)
...whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

(002:190)
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

(2.62
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

"As far as Islam is concerned, it categorically rejects and condemns every form of terrorism. It does not provide any cover or justification for any act of violence, be it committed by an individual, a group or a government..... I most strongly condemn all acts and forms of terrorism because it is my deeply rooted belief that not only Islam but also no true religion, whatever its name, can sanction violence and bloodshed of innocent men, women and children in the name of God."

(Reference: "Murder in the Name of Allah" by Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad, Fourth Successor to the Promised Messiah)

it all depends on where you are looking, but if you ask any Islamist that isn't an extremist, you'll find that it is in fact a very peaceful religion that only endorses violence when it is thrust upon them as they are also a very proud people.

 

[threed]

(005:032)
it is in fact a very peaceful religion

I don't believe you are an islamic disinformation officer, so I won't go there. However, all anyone has to do is go to their local bookstore or library and thumb through a copy of the koran. (Long ago, I bought one to see for myself.)

Your eye can hardly help but fall on verse after verse of sociopathic violence to be heaped on non-moslems. To be fair, then there are those bipolar verses of blessings on the faithful (moslems, that is).

It is not a peaceful book. It is a raging argument against the non-moslem world. You might say, that's its logline.

I'm an equal-opportunity skeptic.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

On and on it goes. It's a pretty whacko book written by an obvious ranting, raving sociopath..

Hm, I think there may be more to it. While I choose not to really take a side, I would say there is something odd in it's creation. He is said to have been channeling the message. Normally, I would immediately just shrug it off but having also looked into the Satanic Verses, thought to have been written when channeling an evil spirit rather than the one behind the "holy verses" around the same time... it leads me to at least think it's strange and more than just insane rantings.

 

[Brian Now]

all anyone has to do is go to their local bookstore or library and thumb through a copy of the koran. (Long ago, I bought one to see for myself.)

True, but it's no different than the Bible in that regard, especially the Old Testament. Scriptures are always such a mish-mash of competing ideas and that's what forces people to choose what they want to believe, and disregard the rest.
I should look for that list of crazy Bible verses I have somewhere.

Anyway, the crap in Iran. It looks to be dying down. I was one of those rooting for revolution but was always cognizant of the fact that this isn't Eastern Europe. There will be no domino affect even if the regime falls (something I think the Bushies were hoping for when Sadam went down). Besides, as in any riot situation, I really question what percentage of the protesters are in it for the cause and what are in it for the protest itself.

How is it that torching cars seems to be a necessary method of expression in any mass protest?

 

[threed]

Hm, I think there may be more to it. While I choose not to really take a side, I would say there is something odd in it's creation. He is said to have been channeling the message. Normally, I would immediately just shrug it off but having also looked into the Satanic Verses, thought to have been written when channeling an evil spirit rather than the one behind the "holy verses" around the same time... it leads me to at least think it's strange and more than just insane rantings.

Well, it's widely known he had a Jewish wife (and this is not a shot at Jewish women, many of whom are extremely hot!!) but she was older and, I believe (methshin can correct me if I'm wrong) she owned the store (so to speak).

So, I can imagine the guy going off to the cave to blow off some steam and, occasionally, getting a little carried away. The western Roman empire had since fallen for the final count and the christian cult was now gaining steam -- no doubt sending their own proslytizing whackos door-to-door in his own neighborhood. (He knew, by his wife, that they were corrupting the meaning of the OT and his own people, since the dissolution of the Parthian empire, were fragmented and lacked identity...)

 

[aNorthernSoul]

Well, it's widely known he had a Jewish wife (and this is not a shot at Jewish women, many of whom are extremely hot!!) but she was older and, I believe (methshin can correct me if I'm wrong) she owned the store (so to speak).

So, I can imagine the guy going off to the cave to blow off some steam and, occasionally, getting a little carried away. The western Roman empire had since fallen for the final count and the christian cult was now gaining steam -- no doubt sending their own proslytizing whackos door-to-door in his own neighborhood. (He knew, by his wife, that they were corrupting the meaning of the OT and his own people, since the dissolution of the Parthian empire, were fragmented and lacked identity...)

Well, I think if you go further back into some of the "secret" societies like the Assassins, one may find it gets far more interesting than just blowing off some steam. It's definitely a matter of control still, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[threed]

"secret" societies like the Assassins, one may find it gets far more interesting than just blowing off some steam. It's definitely a matter of control still, but interesting nonetheless.

Yes, terrorism was a tactic even then.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

Yes, terrorism was a tactic even then.

No no... I mean things like some of the more occultic practices... and even the way they would drug up potential followers and fool them into thinking they were visiting paradise with the promise they would eventually return should they serve the group well. It's a very odd world with some very strange mystical aspects to it mixed in with the downright evil portions as well.

 

[methshin]

Like I said before, Islam is not a violent religion, especially when compared to Christianity.

I'm not religious, let me make that clear, in fact, I find all religion disgusting and pethetic, but to stereotype Islam as the bad guy of the bunch isn't right. I know a few true Islamists and they are the nicest people, they condemn all acts of violence and often cite the Qu'ran when discussing the aspects of violence and terror.

We can look at the examples of the few and try to apply it to the religion as a whole, but we all know that isn't right.

As for this discussion, I'm essentially done. I don't care enough to defend Islam any more, and frankly, I tire of all of this religious debate as of late.

 

[threed]

No no... I mean things like some of the more occultic practices... and even the way they would drug up potential followers and fool them into thinking they were visiting paradise with the promise they would eventually return should they serve the group well. It's a very odd world with some very strange mystical aspects to it mixed in with the downright evil portions as well.

I remote-viewed a martyr once.

Just as his thumb depressed the button and his body disintegrated like a gory pinata, a few clumps of neurons spun up into the sky and continued to fire. At that instant, he saw his first (and final) glimpse of paradise...

[ETERNAL BLACK]

Some sociologists call this the "Oops!" factor.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

I remote-viewed a martyr once.

Just as his thumb depressed the button and his body disintegrated like a gory pinata, a few clumps of neurons spun up into the sky and continued to fire. At that instant, he saw his first (and final) glimpse of paradise...

[ETERNAL BLACK]

Some sociologists call this the "Oops!" factor.

I'm failing to see the point. :question:

 

[threed]

I'm failing to see the point. :question:

Yes, back to your point.

Wasn't that what the Zulus did? When they attacked the British en mass it was reported that they had been heavily drugged and charged in a sort of ecstatic state...

 

[aNorthernSoul]

Yes, back to your point.

Wasn't that what the Zulus did? When they attacked the British en mass it was reported that they had been heavily drugged and charged in a sort of ecstatic state...

Oh? I hadn't heard that one before. It does seems there is a long history of using narcotics to convince someone they are having a spiritual experience.