Like..What is this $&!@

[Decker]

Considering the well-known and well documented history of some of the technologies that Corso claimed were alien, it's not hard to make a strong case that instead of wiping out the hard work of the scientists and inventors who actually created things like transistors and so forth, that Corso's claims were not supported at all. By anything. It's a slightly nicer way to say that either he was lying or all the well documented history of the advancements is part of a grand conspiracy.

Lance

Lance, if you are going to quote me then start answering my points. Did you read what I said? Shermer did the same thing I came down on you for yesterday ... with no proof (and hey Bud, he freaken admitted he never read Corso's book ... so how in the holy hell could he KNOW what Corso claimed?) he attacked Corso, attacked his character .. attacked his record .. simply did the skeptical debunker thing and even though he NEVER read Corso's book therefore could NOT have known what Corso claimed ... he assaulted his character.

Now you guys that bill yourselves as skeptics ... do you begin to comprehend why this gets under my skin? Do you or do you NOT acknowledge the dishonesty and hypocrisy as demonstrated by these so called "honest skeptics"?

Decker

---------- Post added at 10:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------

Respectfully I don't see how any of this matters in the least. It doesn't matter how well he served his country in regard to his claims of alien technology. If he is a liar then he is a liar. Plenty of military and other civilians, well respected or not, can be liars. I'm not defending Shermer at all, but you seem to be making the case that that because he was such a well respected man and served his country well that he isn't capable of lying.

Did I know the man?? NO, and I know you did. So I'm not going to profess that I know more than you or anyone else, but do I believe he is making it up or telling falsehoods?? At this point, yes I do.

TClaeys,

Am I talking to the freaken wall? I mentioned his military background to point out that he was a serious man. Forget about the book for a second .... the point I was making was that Dr. Mike Shermer attacked the man as a fraud without having any information about him. He admitted he never read the book that he was attacking. He was friggen ignorant of what was in the book ... but gee whiz ... I am Mike Shermer ... UFO SKEPTIC!! If it is about UFOs and aliens well ... IT MUST BE BULL SHIT!! Right?

Decker

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Everyone can be dishonest, especially when they're arguing a point - it's human nature. How many of your well respected presidents have lied to get into office. Look at the last administration your country had - they made stuff up just to start a war.
It doesn't change the fact that a lot of the stuff Corso claimed is way out there. I've never read his book and I have no problem saying that what he said sounds made up. Shermer, or any good skeptic doesn't need to read the book to see that claims like that without proof can't be accepted without question.

 

[Decker]

Everyone can be dishonest, especially when they're arguing a point - it's human nature. How many of your well respected presidents have lied to get into office. Look at the last administration your country had - they made stuff up just to start a war.
It doesn't change the fact that a lot of the stuff Corso claimed is way out there. I've never read his book and I have no problem saying that what he said sounds made up. Shermer, or any good skeptic doesn't need to read the book to see that claims like that without proof can't be accepted without question.

Are you changing the topic Angelo? I was not talking about U.S. Presidents nor was I talking about politics ... well maybe the politics of how to be a sneaky skeptic-debunker.

So okay, so what you are saying is that it is okay to lie when we are discussing UFOs and paranormal subjects. Especially if you are a skeptic-debunker it is okay to lie? Bull shit Angleo ... to paraphrase Phil Klass .... BULL SHIT .. BULL SHIT .. BULL SHIT! So, you don't need to read or research any damn thing to make up your mind that something is bull shit, eh? Bud, this dialog is going no-where and I believe you are either being dishonest or simply not capable of seeing the fallacy of your position.

As a long time writer, researcher, and broadcaster I very much resent the erosion of mores in the public sphere and while you may be okay with some SOB being a dishonest schmuck, I ain't Bud.

Decker

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Are you changing the topic Angelo? I was not talking about U.S. Presidents nor was I talking about politics ... well maybe the politics of how to be a sneaky skeptic-debunker.

So okay, so what you are saying is that it is okay to lie when we are discussing UFOs and paranormal subjects. Especially if you are a skeptic-debunker it is okay to lie? Bull shit Angleo ... to paraphrase Phil Klass .... BULL SHIT .. BULL SHIT .. BULL SHIT! So, you don't need to read or research any damn thing to make up your mind that something is bull shit, eh? Bud, this dialog is going no-where and I believe you are either being dishonest or simply not capable of seeing the fallacy of your position.

As a long time writer, researcher, and broadcaster I very much resent the erosion of mores in the public sphere and while you may be okay with some SOB being a dishonest schmuck, I ain't Bud.

Decker

I didn't try to change the subject at all Don. I was just using that as an example. Also, what I meant was that people can inadvertently be dishonest - but it came out completely wrong. Reading it back, it was a major screw-up on my part. Randi and Shermer aren't liars, and I should not have compared them to the last administration - people like Bush and his administration are complete liars and just wanted to start a war.
I am not advocating lying - not at all. All people Randi and Shermer do is look for answers with the evidence that is available. People that say that aliens are without a doubt visiting this planet are lying to themselves. There is no undeniable proof - none. If there was we would not be discussing it here.

This whole topic seems to be frustrating you. Sorry about it, but it's good to discuss it. Why have a forum if everyone agrees.
If the proof is good enough for you, why should you care if people like Randi and Shermer question it.
And for the record, after reading up on what Randi said about Hale-Bopp - he was well within his right since what Bell was perpetuating with his UFO thing was total garbage with no proof. While he may not have lead to those people killing themselves (those people didn't need any help, they had their minds made up), you can't just go around saying stuff like that on a national radio show.

Regards,
A

 

[Kieran]

To Throw this into the mix of the debate. Corso's son and other sources have confirmed that, Corso was very unhappy with some of the information contained in the book (DAY AFTER ROSWELL) Bill Birnes got a bit of flak at the time, by all accounts . I am still in the dark to this very day, to what those issues were?

I agree with Don. The guy wasn't a nobody his military credentials are outstanding. I guess we have to keep an open mind that he just might be telling the truth, while not neglecting the fact, he might have conflated a "Fairy Tale" for some personal gain or ego trip or perhaps he wanted someone to benefit from this elaborate myth ( His Former Employer?)

 

[Dnold7X]

So, there I am ... trolling the web .. looking for possible guests when I saw it!

Turning my head into an expulsion cavity De Void - Sarasota Herald-Tribune - Sarasota, FL - Archive Like, I was up on Billy Cox's DeVoid blog site .. you know, just kind of cruising in neutral when it jumped out at me ...

"Thanks for demonstrating clearly how richly deserved the laughter that greets this topic really is.
Needless to say, all of the photos are eminently laughable.
I love how whenever something is out of focus, she describes it as partially materialized. If this is true then my parents often seem to take images of my kids while they are partially materialized!

Note how Talbot vouches for the authenticity of the photos despite the fact that she was not present when they were taken. Now that’s science!

As to crop circles, the “compelling aspects” you so blithely present as fact are actually unproven and unaccepted by non-insane people. There are no alterations of the plants themselves–despite the representations made by nuts like Nancy Talbot. Apparently they only show up if your heart is pure and you really really want them to be there.

One of the best demonstrations of crop circle “science” is when the leading light of crop circle “research,” Colin Andrews, was filmed walking through a circle sagely commenting on all the reasons that this circle was a REAL one, citing all the usual unproven and completely subjective claptrap that circlers employ.

He was rather quieter after viewing a video tape of regular people creating that very circle.

But there is obviously still a crazy core of believers who will not be silenced, not by laughter, not by derision, and sure as hell not by reason.

Lance

by Lance Moody"

Hmm .. Lance Moody. Well I'll be danged .. that name kind of seemed somewhat familar. Lance Moody. Where had I seen that name before ?? Hmmmm.

Then when I dispelled my Alzheimer's I seemed to recall I might have seen the name somewhere on The Paracast. Damn ... let me look around.

OH! SHIT YEA! Now I remembered ...... wasn't he the guy that called Walter Bosley a liar? I seemed to recall (course now that I am getting so damned old ... sometimes it is hard to remember!) asking Lance Moody for some kind of proof that Walter Bosley lied.

Then I seemed to recall (somewhere in the dim recesses of my dwindling mind) Lance Moody coming out with another Zinger aimed at Chris O'Brien .... "everything Christopher O'Brien has to say, his methods, and his conclusions," [are] "rather undisciplined and lazy" and it finally hit me! Lance Moody is vying for Phil Klass's job! By God! Ad Hominem attacks are the answer. Lance Moody must of watched Klass, Oberg, Menzel, Peebles, Sheaffer and others for years! Yea! That's it!

Hey Lance Moody ... really nice fracken job there Buddy! Keep it up! Damn, I do love those well thought out and reasoned responses there Bucko!

There’s just so many paranormal claims and sadly so little of me!

Lance

by Lance Moody

:question:

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

Don I have detected some intelligence from my source that another forum run by SKEPTICS is making battle plans for a foreward front forum style artillery strike on the Paracast forum. This is known as messageboard warfare and covert invasion, or messageboard war. This is war.

The skeptics are coming, they have an army.

are we prepared to defend our turf?

we must first take the forward

don you take the plank

someone get the left

we need to fight them

BRING EM ON HOOORA

 

[Ron Collins]

To Throw this into the mix of the debate. Corso's son and other sources have confirmed that, Corso was very unhappy with some of the information contained in the book (DAY AFTER ROSWELL) Bill Birnes got a bit of flak at the time, by all accounts . I am still in the dark to this very day, to what those issues were?

Birnes has even admitted this (right here on the Paracast as I recall). He claims full responsibility. I actually respect him for that.

I think there may be grains of truth to the Corso saga, I just don't know what those grains are.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I agree. I just can't regard Corso as a faker, but it would be nice to know how the editorial process altered his story.

 

[Ron Collins]

Corso is on video tape making most of the same claims in the book--it could be that he was having things both ways--making money off of the fiction in his book but covering his backside when the story began to fall apart by blaming Birnes.

I have never understood what value the pro-paranormal side gets from being so willing to forgive someone when their story is exposed as a fraud. It's something we see all the time: Adamski had a real sighting at first but then he started hoaxing photos so he could spread the word of space brotherhood, some of the alien autopsy video is the real stuff, the first MJ-12 papers were real but the rest are phony, Nancy Talbot did some good work before she decided to support the transparent imposture she willingly supports now, etc. (I could go on with a lot more).

What a sad state of affairs for UFO evidence if it must be buttressed by choosing from amongst the rotten timbers of known fraudulent stories a few planks not yet completely destroyed by exposure.

Lance

I see your point. But it is the flip side of the "Swamp Gas", "Venus", "Earth Lights", or "Probably a Hoax" explanations that are/were popular catchalls when "explaining" UFO sightings with no clear causation instead of just labeling anomalous and moving on. When a person with a solid reputation and verifiable background makes a weird claim my tendency is to assume the claim has a grounding in truth.

 

[Ron Collins]

Now honestly Ron, I know the dogma insists that you drag it out but when have you ever heard Swamp Gas used as an explanation for UFO's?
Was it the one time Hynek used it?

Lance

OK, alright, yes that was it. To my defense, I did use the qualifier "were".

But the others remain in favor.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Corso is on video tape making most of the same claims in the book--it could be that he was having things both ways--making money off of the fiction in his book but covering his backside when the story began to fall apart by blaming Birnes.

I have never understood what value the pro-paranormal side gets from being so willing to forgive someone when their story is exposed as a fraud. It's something we see all the time: Adamski had a real sighting at first but then he started hoaxing photos so he could spread the word of space brotherhood, some of the alien autopsy video is the real stuff, the first MJ-12 papers were real but the rest are phony, Nancy Talbot did some good work before she decided to support the transparent imposture she willingly supports now, etc. (I could go on with a lot more).

What a sad state of affairs for UFO evidence if it must be buttressed by choosing from amongst the rotten timbers of known fraudulent stories a few planks not yet completely destroyed by exposure.

Lance

Lance,

For once, you and I are in complete agreement. Corso was a liar. Period. That has been amply demonstrated by UFO researchers from Stan Friedman to Brad Sparks, and all points in between.

This idea that just because someone was in the military means they are credible is one of the most ridiculous appeals to authority that can be found in ufology. Many people in the military are honourable, decent people - but there are plenty of bad apples, too. I suspect the proportion mirrors that in the general public.

Of course, the real test will come if the any of the criminals from at Abu Ghraib ever report a UFO.

Paul

 

[Kieran]

Birnes has even admitted this (right here on the Paracast as I recall). He claims full responsibility. I actually respect him for that.

I think there may be grains of truth to the Corso saga, I just don't know what those grains are.

I can't respect Birnes for that Ron. Everyone can own up after the fact, but did, he not falsify or put down on paper information that was incorrect. Corso and his family and other company he kept (friends) said he did. I see that as being dishonest, especially if Birnes deliberately done so?

---------- Post added at 01:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

Lance,

For once, you and I are in complete agreement. Corso was a liar. Period. That has been amply demonstrated by UFO researchers from Stan Friedman to Brad Sparks, and all points in between.

This idea that just because someone was in the military means they are credible is one of the most ridiculous appeals to authority that can be found in ufology. Many people in the military are honourable, decent people - but there are plenty of bad apples, too. I suspect the proportion mirrors that in the general public.

Of course, the real test will come if the any of the criminals from at Abu Ghraib ever report a UFO.

Paul

Paul when you say Corso has been proven to be a liar and Stanton and Brad demonstrated that he had lied. What are you referring to?

 

[Ron Collins]

I can't respect Birnes for that Ron. Everyone can own up after the fact, but did, he not falsify or put down on paper information that was incorrect. Corso and his family and other company he kept (friends) said he did. I see that as being dishonest, especially if Birnes deliberately done so?

I can understand that. Don't think I suddenly have found it in my heart to absolve Birnes of his transgressions. My respect ends with the admission and that I personally think Birnes took some of the ideas for the "Fictional" stuff they talked about and meshed them in his biography of Corso.(remember that when they originally talked about writing this stuff I think the idea was a fictional story in 3 books.) Now here is where I differ from some who have postulated this in the past is that I don't think Birnes did this intentionally. If you see him on the UFO Hunters show or hear him on radio/podcasts then it isn't a leap to assume he isn't the best listener and that coupled with his conspiratorial proclivities and eagerness to tell an interesting story and that equation ends with The Day After Roswell.

Paul when you say Corso has been proven to be a liar and Stanton and Brad demonstrated that he had lied. What are you referring to?

Paul can correct me if i am wrong but i believe that it was Corso's assertion that he was on the National Security Council and headed the Army R&D effort to disseminate technology to industry. Specifically the Security council stuff.

Here is Stanton talking about it.
Stanton on Corso

 

[Paul Kimball]

Paul can correct me if i am wrong but i believe that it was Corso's assertion that he was on the National Security Council and headed the Army R&D effort to disseminate technology to industry. Specifically the Security council stuff.

Here is Stanton talking about it.
Stanton on Corso

Yes, that's a fair bit of it. There's also the little matter of the Strom Thurmond foreward brouhaha. Then of course there are his claims themselves.

Interestingly, Stan went after Corso for his lies and exaggerations (and rightly so), but he always gives Jesse Marcel Sr. a pass about his own... shall we say "embellishments" of his career in the USAF.

See also: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/corso_da66.htm

Paul

 

[Walter Bosley]

I would love to be better educated on what was BS in the Corso thing. Are the links above comprehensive on those details? It pisses me off when a military guy proves to be dishonest because it doesn't help the rest of us former military guys.

 

[Michael Allen]

Useless drama.

 

[Keiko]

If anyone is interested, Corso's story in his own words is now available to download for free on the Open Minds forum here

I downloaded it but haven't had a chance to read it yet.

Regards

Keiko

 

[Gene Steinberg]

With all the controversy surrounding Corso and his story, it will be interesting to see his own words, without editorial filters. I'm definitely interested in your reactions, listeners.

 

[Ron Collins]

I downloaded it but haven't had a chance to read it yet.

The inability to print it is annoying. I hate reading long stuff like this on my computer screen. I want a comfy chair and real paper to scribble on.

 

[Kieran]

I read close to 20 pages. I haven't read Corso's book, so i can't compare what I read to the Manuscript.

Corso wrote a few things that caught my Eye.

Extraterrestrial technology: We (United States) No Scientific development or leads came Voluntarily from Them!! So Corso in that sentence is ruling out ET voluntarily handed over something in exchange. Ike and ET meeting did not take place!!!

The Beings founded at Roswell were Clones (Corso) We call them IGIGIS. The Sumerian's called them the same name. Where in the Sumerian texts does it say that? This alone could prove he was lieing, if no Texts talk about clones or beings called IGIGIS

Corso does not say how long he was head of the foreign technology division. Isn't the dispute over how long. Bill Birnes claims two years, and others claim three months. Corso hasn't made any claim to length so far!!!