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David Biedny said:
Sigh.

Look, I understand your point. I really do.

I will think VERY CAREFULLY before EVER offering to speak about another one of my experiences on the show. Even though I've repeatedly stated that I'm NOT looking for anyone to believe me, some of our listeners continue to think I'm looking for their approval. I AM NOT - my experiences exist outside of anyone's opinion.

Now I'll state this for the record: I don't UNDERSTAND what the source of my experiences are, so I'm not trying to provide answers, I'm just saying that these things HAPPENED to me, and I would really like to understand them. Wasting energy trying to prove that they actually happened so that YOU can BELIEVE me is not something I will spend time doing.

If you have ideas or opinions as to the possible reasons for these things to happen to people, not just myself, then I'll be happy to engage in a conversation about them, but as I'm not claiming to have answers, I sure as hell won't defend the notion that I've witnessed some seriously odd stuff in my life. If you don't want to accept that I'm telling the truth about my experiences, no problem, but don't try to get me to convince you that they really did happen. I won't play along. Life is too short for this kind of dynamic.

dB
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Fair enough.

Though, I hope you won't stop relating your experiences on the show. As I've said, I find them fascinating. I like pondering all of this, turning it over and over in my mind and seeing what comes of it.

I just hope people in here won't continue to pooh-pooh the skeptics, call them "gnats", "negative", "closed minded" and so on.
We need them.
 
re:interestedINitall
fight or flight i guess. ignore what you fear or do not understand and it will go away.
 
pixelsmith said:
fight or flight i guess.
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Yes, that makes about as much sense as anything else you've said on these boards.

I really have to learn not to read the threads until I'm logged in and the ignore feature is activated.
 
You know, I don't think anyone here is actually accussing others of fabrication. Clearly Jeff and David (and anyone else who's had similar experiences) believes they saw what they saw but the question is one of objective validity.

Take me for example; I've had my share of odd expereinces. Would I bother recounting them? Possibly. Would I expect anyone to believe them or take them as fact? No. The truth is, I'm not sure I believe the stuff I've seen actually happened. I could have been mistaken. I could have imagined it. I could, in fact, be ever so slightly insane. So could other people who would serve as "corroborating witnesses" to my experiences (in cases where there have been some). Could they be equally prone to error, imaginings or insanity? Hell yeah.

The point, ladies (?) and gentlement is this: If you're going to tout the concept of being "open minded" so strongly, then you damned well better put your money where your mouth is and be "open" to the concept you could be innocently mistaken, genuinely wrong or just plain nuts.

Anything less is hypocrisy.
 
interestedINitall said:
Yes, that makes about as much sense as anything else you've said on these boards.

I really have to learn not to read the threads until I'm logged in and the ignore feature is activated.
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Think you can tell the site to remember your password etc. It does with me so I stay logged in. I can't recall if it's the site, or my browser.... Nice feature whatever is involved:)
 
A.LeClair said:
A dissappearing cd was mentioned. Who's experience was this? Was it on a show? If so, which one please?
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It was a very fascinating story David told about his mother, her funeral and a CD that was miraculously discovered, lost and then recovered. I don't have the exact date handy but find it if you can. It was quite compelling.
 
CapnG said:
You know, I don't think anyone here is actually accussing others of fabrication. Clearly Jeff and David (and anyone else who's had similar experiences) believes they saw what they saw but the question is one of objective validity.

Take me for example; I've had my share of odd expereinces. Would I bother recounting them? Possibly. Would I expect anyone to believe them or take them as fact? No. The truth is, I'm not sure I believe the stuff I've seen actually happened. I could have been mistaken. I could have imagined it. I could, in fact, be ever so slightly insane. So could other people who would serve as "corroborating witnesses" to my experiences (in cases where there have been some). Could they be equally prone to error, imaginings or insanity? Hell yeah.

The point, ladies (?) and gentlement is this: If you're going to tout the concept of being "open minded" so strongly, then you damned well better put your money where your mouth is and be "open" to the concept you could be innocently mistaken, genuinely wrong or just plain nuts.

Anything less is hypocrisy.
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Well said.
 
I was to believe that this show was all about facts and nothing but the facts...MAM.(to quote from a show). There are those who listen every week about this and that and are led to believe that unless a story can be validated by a source or others who may have experienced it; it will always be looked as B.S. B.M. may have experienced something remarkable at first but then ruined it by fabricating facts and pictures/movies, but in the end it does not matter what he has to say because his B.S. will be the only thing remembered. I believe the same should go for David's story about venezuela and his experience, why must we hear about a story that he believes happened to him but can not be backed with any type of evidence and then have the same person put someone else through the wringer and then declare? that without facts or proof that this person's story is without merit. All I am saying is that if you want to say your show is "SO" serious about facts and proof then maybe, just perhaps your story ( David) should not have been mentioned, since you have nothing to back it up. I mention this because there was a topic about dog faced people ( WHICH to me seems like crap) but unless someone can prove they don't exist; then just maybe there maybe be something to it no matter how crazy it sounds. After all ALIEN life forms (from other planets or within)...no proof but so many are willing to believe. You can tell me one illion dollars exists but i have never seen it or have touched it, yet you will tell me it exists. show me pictures but as everyone says they can be fabricated and manipulated. We all know this anount exists because everyone says it does, but let us say it say it does not. How many of you can say with certainty that we have been lied to. Has anyone here seen or touched a million dollars or only know it exists because so many have declared it exists?
 
I'll say and do whatever I like on my show. FACTS? If you're looking for PHYSICAL EVIDENCE and FACTS, you're going to be sorely let down. I've looked at the show description, and NO WHERE does it say "presenting the ABSOLUTE FACTS and TRUTH about EVERYTHING PARANORMAL", because, well, THERE IS NO SUCH THING. Sorry, that's the nature of this beast.

The fact that my brother came on and corroborated the story of our UFO encounter means nothing, right? Yeah, he stands to gain SO MUCH by confirming the experience, it's really helping his career, he's been looking to be in the limelight for so many years, won't you buy his book about his UFO experiences and his pizza recipes?

Look, if you're having problems with the account, that's your right, but you're not going to tell me what I can and cannot talk about on my show. You don't "have to hear" ANYTHING. I'll share my experiences, and you're more than free not to listen. I''m looking to drum up some intelligent conversation, and perhaps in the process of having a RATIONAL DISCUSSION about this stuff, we can all arrive at some deeper understanding, if this is at all possible. You have an open mind? Good, use it. Don't let others tell you what the TRUTH is, come to it on your own. Work for it. Dig, listen, learn. If you don't like what you hear, move on. Believe whatever you want, I'm not looking for your acceptance or approval. My experiences live outside of your opinion. You have problems with my Caracas UFO encounter? You ain't heard nothing yet, kiddo. Now perhaps some of our listeners will understand why I'm somewhat hesitant to talk about my experiences. Ritzmann has been a great friend, and has offered me much advice about talking about these subjects. He's undergone pure hell for talking about his own nightmares, and it speaks volumes of his integrity.

Glad we're all on the same page. Makes me feel peachy.

dB
 
David i have never said your story was B.S. but all iam saying is that maybe you should not be so hard to judge other stories. I have had paranormal experiences >>(which is why i have become interested in the topics) but i have nothing to back my story up besides others who have also experienced these things. They may go along with what i have to say, but without solid proof there is nothing to it. I f i came on your show, no doubt you would ask me questions that i could not possibly answer and then perhaps declare me a fraud.
 
interestedINitall said:
I'm don't want to "speak" for hopeful_skeptic but I would like to tackle this question. After rereading all of the latest mishagas in this thread I don't think hopeful_skeptic (or anyone else who is skeptical) is saying that they "made it up" (even my speculation was theoretical ). I think he's saying that without (okay, brace yourselves, I'm going to use that word) evidence, they're stories and not factual accounts of anything.

Again, this is only my interpretation.
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You see, this is where I have a problem. I think your 'skepticism' is misplaced.

I have several questions for you:

  1. You've just stated that you don't think DB is making it up and as he said himself, he's not offering any answers only questions, so what exactly are you 'skeptical' of?
  2. What, by your definition, is a 'factual account'?
  3. Who, in your opinion, *is not* 'skeptical' on this forum?

(BTW, I really would like Hopeful Skeptic to respond and take us through the 'critical thinking' process behind this 'skepticism').
 
Rick Deckard said:
You see, this is where I have a problem. I think your 'skepticism' is misplaced.

I have several questions for you:

  1. You've just stated that you don't think DB is making it up and as he said himself, he's not offering any answers only questions, so what exactly are you 'skeptical' of?
  2. What, by your definition, is a 'factual account'?
  3. Who, in your opinion, *is not* 'skeptical' on this forum?

(BTW, I really would like Hopeful Skeptic to respond and take us through the 'critical thinking' process behind this 'skepticism').
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I'm not continuing this line of discussion. The only reason I'm responding to this extent is because you've complained vociferously about "being ignored" by skeptical people and their doing a "victory dance" after having cut off your line of questioning.

Let me say, for the record, I claim no "victory" here. I'm really not interested in winning anything. If anyone else wants to claim "victory" so be it; I won't contest. I've decided to abandon this because this particular argument is circular and therefore a waste of time and effort.

Everyone, myself included, can settle back into whatever mode is most comfortable for them and enjoy the forum from there.
 
interestedINitall said:
I'm not continuing this line of discussion. The only reason I'm responding to this extent is because you've complained vociferously about "being ignored" by skeptical people and their doing a "victory dance" after having cut off your line of questioning.

Let me say, for the record, I claim no "victory" here. I'm really not interested in winning anything. If anyone else wants to claim "victory" so be it; I won't contest. I've decided to abandon this because this particular argument is circular and therefore a waste of time and effort.
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That's a *very interesting* response.

Thank you.
 
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