Loren Coleman, May 4, 2014

[Burnt State]

Billionaire's for the most part are full of sh*t because they aren't real people anymore. They are a part of the Breakaway Leisure & Luxury Society, flying their new fangled airships into upper orbits to see what sex without gravity feels like.

Soylent Green is people etc.

 

[nuszig]

I would like to talk about the point about the phd's and so forth in the Bigfoot field, and then there the lack of in the UFO field.

First being, maybe the great minds are recruited for the UFO field in black opps organizations, or there is an incredible amount of disinformation/dis-crediting in the field, to where anyone thinking about pursuing it, obviously changes their mind about doing so in a public manor.

And then not nearly as much disinformation/dis-crediting or non at all in the Bigfoot field.

Which I would assume would be due to a lack of a threat level of some kind.

Or Bigfoot doesn't have a technology embargo with us.

 

[bobodean]

I think most people who favor some form of gun control are merely considering safety, not depriving anyone of their second amendment rights.

But, since most people who dont own guns are uninformed, their "feel good safety measures" do deprive us of our 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

How so?

 

[bobodean]

How so?

In my state, Maryland, you now have to get a license just to buy a handgun, and take a mandatory safety class just to own this handgun...even if you have over a dozen handguns(as I do) all at a large expense.This added expense could keep many folks who cant afford this extra stuff from purchasing a gun for protection...right deprived. In addition, there is a waiting period of 7 days on paper, but in reality it is more like 3-4 months due to staffing problems. A right delayed is a right denied.
And thats just Maryland...look to NY with their "SAFE act" and all that it does to legal gun owners that makes them suddenly felons. And to Connecticut doing the same, and to NewJersey that just banned 22rifles with under-the-barrel tube magazines.
EDIT***none of these laws and procedures will stop one criminal***
Gene...you live out west, where the gun laws are great. With all your vast knowledge(and I mean that, not being sarcastic) you really should take a little time to educate yourself on the gun culture that is probably right next door to you. I suggest reading John Lott'sbook,"More guns, Less Crime". Or hell, just talk to your neighbors.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Honestly, it's not on my radar. Yes, I have a couple of military veterans a house or two from me, and I expect they own guns. And I also expect that, while I may need their help in a pinch, it's not something I care to do.

 

[BobinDC]

I liked that Coleman dismissed the whole UFO/Bigfoot connection. That always seemed like a reach to me and only gave material to those who dismiss paranormal interests as something for crazy people.

 

[Burnt State]

I liked that Coleman dismissed the whole UFO/Bigfoot connection. That always seemed like a reach to me and only gave material to those who dismiss paranormal interests as something for crazy people.

I also don't subscribe to the Bigfoot alien connection as those stories tend to produce very large waves of doubt in my mind. However, there is a very long history of UFO's and the paranormal, specifically poltergeist activity. When you look deeply into the fied you consistently run up against this specific issue of attendant phenomenon suggesting some type of paranormal/extraterrestrial connection. Even Hynek and Vallée explored these ideas together. Keel of course, as Coleman reminds us, was a proud demonologist. Like Hynek, who felt at the end of his life UFO's were 'elementals' or some type of earth bound spirits, Keel identifed that ET was actually demonic in nature as far as he was concerned.
Coleman writing with Jerome Clark in the early years also explored the UFO through more complicated and surreal lenses.

Also of interest are those folk who once touched by the UFO appear to mentally destabilize, and in some cases feel like the thing they are looking deeply into is starting to look back at them. I wonder how much of this paranormal connection is linked to the powers of the mind where these attendant phenomena are springing from a more human well-source as if something latent in us is somehow sparked? But these ideas are purely speculative.

A good article on the UFO and the poltergeist: The Big Study: Poltergeists AND UFOS?: Hard to find.

 

[Azz7092]

i do agree im not sold on the ufo sasquatch connection but there does seem to be alot of abductees saying they have seen sasquatch like creatures on tables being operated on

 

[bobodean]

Honestly, it's not on my radar. Yes, I have a couple of military veterans a house or two from me, and I expect they own guns. And I also expect that, while I may need their help in a pinch, it's not something I care to do.

If this isnt on your radar, then why did you agree with Coleman?

 

[kanakaris]

[QUOTE="More guns, Less Crime"[/QUOTE]

This is a joke , right ?

 

[bobodean]

[QUOTE="More guns, Less Crime"

This is a joke , right ?[/QUOTE]
Nope. Its a fact. Dont take my word for it, look it up. Generally, states with laws that are less restrictive regarding the purchase and/or carry of firearms have a lower crime rate. And the opposite is true. Restrictive states have higher crime.
Check out John Lott's"More Guns, Less Crime"...now in its 3rd edition. Or...you could look to thr FBI crime stats. Either way...its the truth.

 

[kanakaris]

This is a joke , right ?

Nope. Its a fact. Dont take my word for it, look it up. Generally, states with laws that are less restrictive regarding the purchase and/or carry of firearms have a lower crime rate. And the opposite is true. Restrictive states have higher crime.
Check out John Lott's"More Guns, Less Crime"...now in its 3rd edition. Or...you could look to thr FBI crime stats. Either way...its the truth.[/QUOTE]

Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population : USA : 10.3 , UK:0.25 .
Should i read these numbers in some other way ?

 

[flipper]

Coleman's points around gun control were far from ornery or soapboxy. He made some pretty simple statements about people keeping guns out of the hands of children i.e. slack gun owners who don't store properly, and also made statements about whether or not assault weapons that have been used in previous mass shootings in America are things that should be sold. Technically I understand the following based on previous very informative debates about gun control on the forum:

• America is a gun culture and that can not be changed.
• Other gun culture countries like Switzerland do not have mass shootings like America does.
• America is a leader in mass shootings and needs to address this problem
• Guns are common family household items that are treated with respect in most homes and used for very functional reasons, like you would own a shovel
• Assault weapons require a high degree of hurdles to jump through before you can own one.
• The police are not there to save you from criminals - that's apparently an individual responsibility.
• The proliferation/promotion of weapons as a commodity has increased access to youth shooting grandma and their siblings. These tragedies appear to outweigh reports of kids saving the homestead with the family gun from criminals
• More guns=more gun tragedies and waste of life
• You'll never be able to remove the right to bear arms but why not work on minimizing tragedy?
• The N.R.A. needs to address issues of tragedy in the face of rejecting every single restriction that is attempted to try to eliminate tragedy. They just say it's people who kill people and not the innocent gun - so what, should we ban bad people? They need to be a little more practical and less rah rah rah the gun yay!
• Gun control and gun tragedies = a ludicrous situation that appears to have no answers because the will to change the situation does not exist.

I would like to add one thing to your list. The right to bare arms is not the constitution so that the United States citizens can kill each other. It is there originally so that they can protect themselves from their government.

 

[bobodean]

Nope. Its a fact. Dont take my word for it, look it up. Generally, states with laws that are less restrictive regarding the purchase and/or carry of firearms have a lower crime rate. And the opposite is true. Restrictive states have higher crime.
Check out John Lott's"More Guns, Less Crime"...now in its 3rd edition. Or...you could look to thr FBI crime stats. Either way...its the truth.

Firearm-related death rate per 100,000 population : USA : 10.3 , UK:0.25 .
Should i read these numbers in some other way ?[/QUOTE]
Yes. England has fewer gun related deaths,but thats not what I said. Less crime. Does Englandhave less violent crime? Nope. What about Mexico ,where gun are strictly regulated and there is only 1 gun store...in a military base? Hardly any legal guns....lots if death and crime with guns. Besides, we are talking about America and comparing states.

 

[Burnt State]

It's all apples, oranges and pomegranates to me when you start comparing countries. Different countries with different cultures and histories determine the role of the gun in different societies.

At the end of the day guns are mostly terminal compared to other violent weapons. Crime is a complicated collection of various influences, attitudes and balances. Countries where violent drug cartels run free as wild horses can not be compared to countries who ban guns, or those who have more criminals in jail than the whole world combined. These are all unique settings.

I think America's issue pertains more to the frequency of serial gun shootings, the use of guns to kill family members by design or accident, and the ability for young children to be able to access guns and ammo with tragic consequences. Those are the casualties of a thriving gun culture society.

At this point you would think simple things like enforcing safe storage and gun ownership registries would be focal points to at least avoid simple tragedies and so law enforcement can track guns for crime prevention purposes.

 

[bobodean]

I think America's issue pertains more to the frequency of serial gun shootings, the use of guns to kill family members by design or accident, and the ability for young children to be able to access guns and ammo with tragic consequences. Those are the casualties of a thriving gun culture society.

At this point you would think simple things like enforcing safe storage and gun ownership registries would be focal points to at least avoid simple tragedies and so law enforcement can track guns for crime prevention purposes.

As for the frequency of shootings...Ive found evidence that supports your position and undercuts it. So, I figure they are stable.
Killing family members by design....you cant legislate away the crazy. Meaning, nuts are always gonna find a way. I remember after SandyHook some uninformed person said to me,"If only we didnt have guns, those children would be alive". To which I said,"um..no. Lanza couldve called in a bomb threat or a fire, and simply drove over the kids with a stolen school bus". Crazy will find a way.
Killing family members by accident...this is solved by education and training. Ive been around guns my entire life..never had an accident. The only accidents I have ever heard of were by people f'n around with a gun.
Children gaining access can be addressed in several ways..education(again), safety lessons, and just keeping guns locked up when not in your immediate possession if you have young kids around(age to be determined by the parent who knows their own kid).
Safe storage is a great idea. I have a big safe and a small safe. Laws that make it mandatory to have a safe are burdensome to people who cant afford them. Guns can be made inaccessible with a lock attached to it...cheaper alternative. Either way, a law mandating "safe storage" can and will be used as a club by a zealous prosecutor when simple child-endangerment laws would suffice.
Gun ownership registries...I am going to guess you probably dont own a gun. The only thing a registry does is make it easier for the "Government" to one day take them away, since they already know who has what. Every dictator started with registration of firearms. Dont think it can happen here? Ask gun owners in NY,NJ and CA...and NewOrleans during Katrina. Besides, a registration of gun owners and their guns doesnt prevent crime. How could it?

 

[LeBombette]

This is my first time on the forum in a super long time...I was inspired to get back on after listening to the episode with Mr. Coleman thinking what interesting discussions would be going on here. Instead I find a debate that belongs on a political forum. Could you maybe move the gun thing somewhere else (at least another thread) so those of us that want to actually discuss paranormal things don't have to wade through the mire?
Thanks Gene & Chris for having Mr. Coleman on the show...I'm very sorry that I missed posting a question for him, but that just reminds me that I need to be checking out the forums more often for guest updates.
By the way, just to brag a bit with some people that might "understand"...my friend recently went to Portland and visited the International Cryptozoology Museum and brought me back a Bigfoot track casting - 3rd generation cast originally made by John Green. Some girls cry tears of joy when they receive jewelry - not me...I cry tears of joy over a Bigfoot track cast!

 

[Myself]

The climate surrounding the gun discussion should be alarming to people on all sides. Other than Homosexuality, no other issue seems to cause tempers to flare quite like the 2nd amendment. In my view it doesn't have as much to do with the actual rights of people as it does ideas about what America is, was and should be going forward, people on all sides are very afraid of what is yet to come and they will defend what they believe "should be" with their lives. That to me is terrifying.

 

[Myself]

Oh and great show guys.