• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Major Austerity riots in Spain

Free episodes:

I think we will see more and more of this as we fill the testube we call the biosphere


You cannot have unlimited growth in a finite system.

And democratic Govt cant fix the problem, because people will naturally vote to fill their bellies today, and worry about tomorrow later.

When push comes to shove people will vote for debt over austerity any day.

Those are the choices, austerity, living within the budget, or debt spending beyond your means.
 
Thanks for posting a thread on this... been watching the live-feeds and helping keep the info that the mainstream media will not cover keep moving out.

Austerity will not work to recover an economy as what it actually takes is government investment in infrastructure not the striping and privatization of it.
 
Thanks for posting a thread on this... been watching the live-feeds and helping keep the info that the mainstream media will not cover keep moving out.

Austerity will not work to recover an economy as what it actually takes is government investment in infrastructure not the striping and privatization of it.

This is going to end up messy. A region of Spain "Catalonia" population 8 million no longer wants to be ruled by the Spanish Government.

Madrid faces regional funding backlash - FT.com

Madrid faces a backlash from its own conservative supporters over attempts to calm separatist tensions in Catalonia, hampering efforts by Mariano Rajoy, the prime minister, to avoid a constitutional crisis.
In a direct contradiction of the Spanish government’s position, María Dolores de Cospedal, the secretary-general of Mr Rajoy’s centre-right Popular party hit out against the speedy renegotiation of Spain’s system for funding regional governments, which wealthy Catalonia argues is a drain on its finances.

Spain’s economic crisis has inflamed separatist sentiment in Catalonia, an economy equal in size to Portugal’s and Spain’s largest region by output. Up to 1.5m people staged a pro-independence march in Barcelona this month.
The Catalan government, which is unable to borrow new money to refinance its debts, was forced this year to request a €5bn credit line from Spain’s central government. Concern about regional finances is one reason behind Spain’s high sovereign borrowing costs that could eventually lead to a eurozone rescue programme.
A debate will be held in the Catalan regional parliament on Tuesday when the ruling moderate nationalist Convergència i Unió party will try to gauge support for moving towards a separate state if Madrid fails to renegotiate Catalonia’s financial relationship with the Spanish state.
Artur Mas, CiU’s leader, has attempted to convince Mr Rajoy to give Catalonia more control over its taxes under a renegotiated fiscal pact. But the offer was rejected, prompting the Catalan leader to suggest that he could call snap elections and the King of Spain writing a rare open letter to Spaniards calling for unity.
“Artur Mas is trying to prevent a further drift towards independence,” said Angel Pascual-Ramsay, director of global risks at the Esade business school, and a former assistant to José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, the former Spanish socialist prime minister. “But some people believe it is already too late, and civic sentiment in Catalonia will now not be satisfied, even if he does get that compromise.”
 
well that was a full on morning...

There will be more and bigger protests tomorrow.

The people remained peaceful but the police did not.

The Main Stream Media (MSM) did not cover this well if at all, but we kept the live streams open and going out.

Peace all
 
Thing is countrys are different only in scale to a household like yours or mine.

You cannot live on debt for ever, you can max out credit card after credit card, paying only the interest on each, but there comes a time when even the interest cant be paid back.

The stopgap measure has always been growth, but thats just kicking the can further down the road.
There comes a time when you cant do that, you have to balance the books and live within your means.
But thats always unpleasant, Given the choice between a 3 course meal in a fancy resturant and 2 minute noodles, people will if they can chose the resturant.

The people dont want noodles, but the credit card wont cover a night out on the town.......
 
That is true enough Mike.

But like many nations in this state right now for the most part it is not the average citizen that is at fault for the economic mess they are being asked to foot the bill for but a corrupt banking system that racked up the debt in the first place.

The nut shell description is like not being invited to a party but being given the bill for it.

As for Spain when you hit 25% young adult unemployment you have a serious problem on your hands and austerity will not help the situation.

The party is over and the bill has to be paid but instead of bailing out the people it is the banks that got the bail out and the bill paid, the people have been made to suffer so the wealthy can arrange another party.

Anyway we both know this end of things so no argument here.

Yes the tab has to be settled but my problem is who is being made to settle it.
 
That is true enough Mike.

But like many nations in this state right now for the most part it is not the average citizen that is at fault for the economic mess they are being asked to foot the bill for but a corrupt banking system that racked up the debt in the first place.

The nut shell description is like not being invited to a party but being given the bill for it.

As for Spain when you hit 25% young adult unemployment you have a serious problem on your hands and austerity will not help the situation.

The party is over and the bill has to be paid but instead of bailing out the people it is the banks that got the bail out and the bill paid, the people have been made to suffer so the wealthy can arrange another party.

Anyway we both know this end of things so no argument here.

Yes the tab has to be settled but my problem is who is being made to settle it.

I agree with this, but its not always as simple as it seems.

I agree the people who ran the banks should be held accountable, but in many cases the bank itself got bailed out because if they had been allowed to sink, they would have taken the mum and dad depositors life savings with them.
The collapse of even a single well known brand of bank, can cause a run on the others, people withdrawing their savings, which in turn creates a cascade effect even greater than the original root cause problem.

Most people dont concern themselves with Govt spending, they dont protest when one spends money on schools, roads, hospitals. They dont ask where is the money coming from ?

Its human nature to take the path of least resistance, we see this with personal credit cards.
The desire for gratification overides, the logic of knowing you cant afford to run up more debt.

Whats happening in spain is a result of public spending

Concerns over the country's public finances were evident earlier Wednesday

Thats debt by the people for the people

Spain's government was hit by the country's financial crisis on two fronts on Tuesday as protestors enraged with austerity cutbacks and tax hikes clashed with police near Parliament while the nation's borrowing costs increased in an auction of its debt.

The formula is pretty simple, public services cost money. Tax pays for these services, where the cost of the service is greater than the tax income, the difference is borrowed.

So the fix is austerity, services must be cut. Less public transport , less public services. and at the same time tax hikes to pay for the debt already incurred on behalf of the populace.

By the cold logic of the budget spread sheet, there is no other way.

Whats the alternative to austerity ?, just keep spending and let the next generation pay for the lifestyle we enjoy today.

Basic infrastructure like bridge repairs, is in some countrys being paid for now on the projected tax income of people who havent even been born yet.

People have known this for decades, but it was easier to turn a blind eye in order to get that bridge fixed now.

In spain people are blaming the Govt.

Angry Madrid marchers who got as close as they could to Parliament, 250 meters (yards) away, yelled "Get out!, Get out! They don't represent us! Fire them!"
"The only solution is that we should put everyone in Parliament out on the street so they know what it's like," said Maria Pilar Lopez, a 60-year-old government secretary.
Lopez and others called for fresh elections, claiming the government's hard-hitting austerity measures are proof that the ruling Popular Party misled voters when it won power last November in a landslide.

What they want is a Govt who will spend more money, and take less tax from them. But thats just kicking the problem down the road for the next generation.

Reach not to the drowning man for in the desperation to survive his own immediate ordeal, he may pull us under with him. Out of selfish necessity, he cares not for his potential rescuers. Survival is his primary objective, at any cost. We may pay the price, becoming the sacrifice that he is willing to make in order to survive another day.

Panic has overtaken his perceptions, and biological selfishness his objectivity; he has returned to the primal state of being. He is an animal, and far from civilized or consequential about his actions.

He flails through life, always caught in life's undertow. He is without consequences or consideration; his actions motivated by a need to to live through this one day with no interest in learning to swim.

In reaching out to help him, our reward may be that we ourselves are pulled under and drowned. It's an inadvertant trap. My advice is to throw him a rope, but don't tie it around your neck.

This is basic human nature, these people are reacting to the biological neccesity of today, austerity is a recognition of the logical results that tomorrow will bring.

You cannot have your cake and eat it as well, but thats precisely humans nature to seek.

The only formula that can work is income=spending. Add debt to that and you can only sustain it for so long, and then that debt must be paid.

The trouble is where people recognise personal debt, public debt is harder to take responsibility for.
They voted for the politicians who promised better services, more frequent public transport timetables, voted for the party that promised lower taxes, and better services.

Now they are screaming for more of the same, more services not less, less taxes not more.
The debt component in this process is swept under the rug.

The sad fact is the political process uses public debt to buy votes. a country can and should run with a budget surplus, not a deficit.
But people will always vote with what they get in mind, and not what it costs
 
Very nice post.

I agree that banks needed to be rescued, but my angle which I did not state was that they should have been nationalized when this happened.

I could be wrong but from my own reading this would have secured more confidence in the stability of the bank.

The problem putting all of this aside Mike is there is still Trillions of dollars of Toxic debt in the system that was traded that should not have been.

But hell this is old ground.
 
I agree banks need to be better regulated.
There is a difference between investing and gambling with other peoples money.

Ive worked for stockbrokers and merchant banks including domestic and swiss owned ones, I remember saying to brokerage staff this is just like betting on the horses.

They agreed, adding the mistake people made was "investing" ie gambling all their money.

Only bet/invest what you can afford to lose.

Its the same with forex and money markets, one dealers good position, is anothers bad one.

There is little "growth" profit in these setups, just like a card game. The money changes hands, one mans win is anothers loss, but the pot doesnt really grow in size during the game.

6 guys play poker, each brings 100 bucks to the game, two hours later the distrubition has changed, but its still only 600 bucks total.

But again Mum and dad depositors dont want to know how the best interest rate in town is made, they just want the highest rate.
But the reality is low risk / low rate, high risk / high rate.

Most superannuation funds offer the choice of low/medium/high risk investment/return plans.
In the short term the high return plan seems great, but if you plot the graphs over a long period of time its not always the case.

The way the pros play the stock market is very different to the ways the mum and dad investors do it.
Because the pros see it for what it is, gambling not investment.

They buy a bundle of shares at one price, let it gain some, then sell and cut that growth out and put it aside. then the rinse and repeat, sequestering the gains outside of the game.

Your "investors" on the other hand will buy a share for 5 dollars, and calculate their "net worth" on the paper value as the price goes up, they end up becoming rich "on paper" which gets wiped out when the inevitable crash cycle pops up.

The pro while losing his kitty like everyone else gets to keep the margins hes been cutting and sequestering as cash.

The investor rubs his hands with glee seeing that on paper his portfolio is worth 400 percent what he paid for it. The pro is happy to make 10 percent, cut that as profit/cash and do that all over again.
 
I wonder......

If Spain were to hold elections next week

One party promising to reduce the national debt, and raise taxes to do so
The other promising to increase services , public spending , subsidies and slash taxes

Which path would the people chose ?
 
wow that was a very good way to put it.

Then I guess I have been doing it right over the years even in a small way.

I never hold on to an investment to long but cash out when I make 5-10% the original, all I lost in the 2008 crash was the kitty but not the capital.

Not saying I am rich but I do not need to work all day every day put it that way, getting to old to be a sound engineer on the road anyway :p

It is ironic that it is called the money market when in fact it should be called the money casino is it not?:rolleyes:
 
I wonder......

If Spain were to hold elections next week

One party promising to reduce the national debt, and raise taxes to do so
The other promising to increase services , public spending , subsidies and slash taxes

Which path would the people chose ?

the answer is the second one, but that is due to a lack of education in how recovery and money really works.

The choice should be the first one coupled with infrastructure investment to create job growth and investment.
 
It is indeed a casino.

Any profit/growth made via interest instead of an honest days pay for an honest days labour is won on the wheel of fortune.

There is nothing wrong with that as long as you understand the risks, and dont play with more than you can lose
 
The choice should be the first one coupled with infrastructure investment to create job growth and investment.

To add to this is the reason why the economic recovery is going so bad as this form of recovery is not being used.

The ethos now is to cut tax for the super rich in the hope that they will create job growth which they are not.

I will go out on a limb and say that the problems we are now seeing in the world are being compounded directly or indirectly by peak oil.

Just a thought and it seems to be adding up that way.
 
the answer is the second one, but that is due to a lack of education in how recovery and money really works.

The choice should be the first one coupled with infrastructure investment to create job growth and investment.

Is it though ? is it lack of education or head in the sand ?

Voters are adults, by the time one is old enough to vote they have had experience with their personal budgets, they know how money works.
They know that debt must be repaid, that spending more than you have requires credit/debt.

What really happens is self interest clouds perception and objectivity

I think its a matter of scale

We know that if we max out 5 credit cards, the repo men will impose a very personal version of austerity on us.
A commune of 10 people who agree to buy a tractor to increase productivity, know they must each contribute their share.
But at a national level the debt is so large as to be an abstract concept, its difficult to accept any personal responsibility.

The U.S. government debt, which topped $16 trillion for the first time at the close of business on Friday, now equals approximately $136,260 for every household in the country.

Thats one example, how many US workers do you think really believes he/she owes136 odd grand.........

Australia

Our eight million households on average now owe $125,000 each. We spend 11 per cent of our take-home pay just to pay interest on our debts — way above the 9 per cent we paid in the high-interest days of 1989-90.

The information is there, most people dont want to see it
 
Is it though ? is it lack of education or head in the sand ?

Voters are adults, by the time one is old enough to vote they have had experience with their personal budgets, they know how money works.
They know that debt must be repaid, that spending more than you have requires credit/debt.

What really happens is self interest clouds perception and objectivity

I think its a matter of scale

We know that if we max out 5 credit cards, the repo men will impose a very personal version of austerity on us.
A commune of 10 people who agree to buy a tractor to increase productivity, know they must each contribute their share.
But at a national level the debt is so large as to be an abstract concept, its difficult to accept any personal responsibility.



Thats one example, how many US workers do you think really believes he/she owes136 odd grand.........

Australia



The information is there, most people dont want to see it

Sad but true Mike.

The hangover has come that is for sure and the party is over.
 
Back
Top