March 22nd / interview with Mike C!

[mikec]

MIKE wrote:
there is always a payoff, always... "nothing to gain" is not a common human motivation... identify the payoff, and you'll have answered the "why"

Mike C replies:
If you can think of a payoff. Please, I'm curious. My life has been crummy since perusing this topic.

_________

MIKE wrote:
on the topic of "sex sleep", from my pov the link is a simple enough explanation.
if you poke someone when they are sleeping (pardon the pun) they often awake with a physical "jolt" this in turn would wake both parties at that time.

Mike C replies:
The event was well past the initial physical "jolt" and both of us found it exceedingly strange. I'll add that both Budd Hopkins and Dave Jacobs were very intrigued by this story.

_________

MIKE wrote:
as i recall the interview Mike mentions this to Mr Hopkins who then makes a face, which Mike interprets as being an answer that "fits" his notions.
using facial expressions instead of words that can be quoted is "noncommittal" communication, and from my pov hardly a basis for "confirmation"

Mike C replies:
I am quite sure I went on to say that Budd did share several accounts of exactly the same story from his research.

_________

MIKE wrote:
the matter of the "mention" that doesn't show up on the video, my first honest response was, confronting as it must be to hear it, was that the poor chap is delusional... thats the simple answer, and also explains the speakers response when asked about the matter.

Mike C replies:
The strange thing, to me, was that I ended up meeting David B. from this event, and the director of the documentary. Both who fit the checklist. That list somehow came in the form of my imagination (this is my conclusion) as she was talking.

 

[Gareth]

In the interest of adding another data point to the graph for Mikec. So there is a chance he may actually continue to share his experiences, Ill just say that I disagree strongly with everything mike (without the C) wrote.

Usually Im on board with mikes post. But definitely not in this thread.

 

[marduk]

Probably the most important Paracast episode to me personally. And very useful.

MikeC thanks for your courage and willingness to come forward. Very helpful to me and I'm sure other experiencers.

And thanks for Gene and David for having him on. I think this kind of thing is worth 10x more than calling out any bs artist or even a competent researcher in my opinion. In terms of usefulness to me anyway.

Mike -- can't say that I disagree strongly enough. MikeC has been honest even when things don't make sense. Don't get distracted with the "sleep sex" thing. Look at everything in totality. I can speak from my own experience... the high strangeness events in my life I can't even begin to explain. And I'm sure I would look very foolish to you indeed.

 

[ghoul]

MikeC, Gene, David,

I enjoyed both discussions with MikeC. Thanks for sharing them with us.

--ghoul

 

[paraschtick]

Anyone have any luck searching for that video that David mentioned?

Im dying to see that video David. linky please?

I have no idea ... but this might be it (??). Its not a great video but you kind of see a small dot weaving around as the asteroid passes by.

Here is the link:

I'm sure (well not at all sure actually ) David will post a better video at some point ... but until then ...

 

[Gareth]

I think that might be the video actually.

 

[mike]

MIKE wrote:
there is always a payoff, always... "nothing to gain" is not a common human motivation... identify the payoff, and you'll have answered the "why"

Mike C replies:
If you can think of a payoff. Please, I'm curious. My life has been crummy since perusing this topic.

_________

MIKE wrote:
on the topic of "sex sleep", from my pov the link is a simple enough explanation.
if you poke someone when they are sleeping (pardon the pun) they often awake with a physical "jolt" this in turn would wake both parties at that time.

Mike C replies:
The event was well past the initial physical "jolt" and both of us found it exceedingly strange. I'll add that both Budd Hopkins and Dave Jacobs were very intrigued by this story.

_________

MIKE wrote:
as i recall the interview Mike mentions this to Mr Hopkins who then makes a face, which Mike interprets as being an answer that "fits" his notions.
using facial expressions instead of words that can be quoted is "noncommittal" communication, and from my pov hardly a basis for "confirmation"

Mike C replies:
I am quite sure I went on to say that Budd did share several accounts of exactly the same story from his research.

_________

MIKE wrote:
the matter of the "mention" that doesn't show up on the video, my first honest response was, confronting as it must be to hear it, was that the poor chap is delusional... thats the simple answer, and also explains the speakers response when asked about the matter.

Mike C replies:
The strange thing, to me, was that I ended up meeting David B. from this event, and the director of the documentary. Both who fit the checklist. That list somehow came in the form of my imagination (this is my conclusion) as she was talking.

I've heard retellings of BOTH partners waking up simultaneously (in the act) only once, told to me by Budd Hopkins. And he indicated that he had heard more such stories during his research.

once.........only once ,one other case. the rest of the "confirmation this is common with abductees" comes from nonverbal "indications" ie facial expressions

and if the links to "sleep sex" are correct thats not unlikely. the best thing that could happen here, for both our sakes, would be for Mr hopkins to chime in and confirm that "waking up in the act" is in fact common in his experience with abductees.

whats the payoff ? when you ask me that question you are pulling a bait and switch....on yourself.

why are you making a documentary ? why did you mention the making over and over again ?

That list somehow came in the form of my imagination

again the simple answer is it was a mental construct, a delusion.
it didnt happen, the video confirms it, the speaker confirms it. for whatever reason your brain inserted a delusion
that doesnt need to be bad news, its common enough for some people to have delusions. it happens..............

short of time travelling reality editors or some cosmic conspiracy to make you think your going nuts, i cant think of any other reasonable explanation for the events as you describe them.

but being delusional might be the good news, it happens its nothing to be ashamed of, there are Dr's who specialise in the field and a raft of treatments

would you be happier knowing its just common garden variety delusions, and not abductions against your will ?

i'm not saying its either, thats for you to decide. but my observations suggest the posibility.

the key is this bit thats "missing" the bit you cant find on the video, the bit the speaker is confused by.

if the reality as you recall it is ONLY in your mind, then that may be the case with the other reality fragments that are disturbing you.

find out where that missing "bit" is, either where it went, or where it comes from . dont ignore it

and for those who dont agree with my observations, keep saying so, its the whole picture that counts here, not the individual fragments

as always

respect and regards
m

 

[mike]

howzat for synchronicity.....

"Mike C replies:
The strange thing, to me, was that I ended up meeting David B. from this event, and the director of the documentary. Both who fit the checklist. That list somehow came in the form of my imagination (this is my conclusion) as she was talking."

THAT is where you should be looking, methinks. If you can imagine a speaker saying all of that and had zero results from several hypnosis sessions, then why are we talking about abductions? <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

That is where you should be looking, find that missing "bit" either where it came from or where it went..........

its the key

 

[David Biedny]

Yes, that is indeed the video I mentioned.

And I want to state, for the record, that this episode of the show is one of my absolutely personal favorites, as I consider Mike C to be one of the most honest, sincere and intelligent people I've ever met. He's as reasonable and level-headed a person as you could possibly hope for as a witness to strangeness, and I personally find his stories and experiences to be highly compelling and fascinating. I totally relate to his frustrations and concerns in discussing these matters with strangers, and I want to publicly thank him for his courage and determination in sharing his thoughts with us on this show. Mike, in Yiddish, you're what we refer to as a mensch. Thanks for taking the time to come on this show, we're thrilled that you've done so, and I'm proud to call you friend.

dB

 

[Rocketsauce]

I enjoyed the stories about the support group. Found it quite interesting, particularly the father and daughters experiences with the virtual reality type scenarios. This actually sounds much like what (bear with me!) what Jim Sparks described in his book, where he is put into situations where he either has to kill something or he gets punished. Seems on the surface like some type of situational ethics test regarding human behavior towards violence/murder????? The fact he found 13 other people with the same experience is totally bizzaro and makes it hard to just dismiss. Very very strange. Mike C, did this guy mention he recalls being on a ship at any time?

The story about the contactee relaying that she has been told it's okay to come forward with her story, now is the time. etc..... also interesting.

I think every generation since human civilization began all probably thought they were on the cusp of some great change, whether it was the oppression of the Roman empire, the invasion of North America by Europeans, the civil war, the depression, the 1960's, I think humans are prone to think their particular time here is the time of some big change in the world, which is true. But I don't think change like the Stephen Bassett's of the world discuss, is some pin point in time which can be separated into 'before awareness and after awareness', I think things just continue evolving with peaks and valleys continuously, not all at one time where there is a line in the sand before and after.

 

[Schuyler]

I don't really have a problem if someone puts up a post suggesting there isn't anything particularly paranormal about Mikec's experiences. He may feel some of his experiences are bizarre where most people might not see it that way. Really, it's not as if he took a ride on a spaceship. Its just an account of a personal journey in self-discovery and an accounting of what it is like at a conference. He may be easily amused. What's wrong with that? I'm kinda bored, myself, and it's nice to see people take an interest in the world and their surroundings. Mike's the kind of guy that would wax eloquent about being on a ferry boat in the middle of Puget Sound on a sunny day watching the City of Seattle getting bigger where I would say, 'It's running late, as usual. Why can't they leave the fucking dock on time and yer acting like an idiot.' People are different.

What I do take issue with is character assassination, questioning mikes's integrity or motivations, and suggesting a profit motive is involved. That, it seems to me, is a pretty low blow and so unnecessary. There's also no evidence of it. Mike is not soliciting donations to support a zero point energy device and building $100K dune buggies in his spare time. I'll bet you could go camping with him looking for moths and he wouldn't charge you anything. Well, at least not $800 bucks.

I saw Budd Hopkins in an interview years ago in my area and a guy from the floor made a special point of asking him if he made any money on his books. Of course he did. He got royalties, and for Missing Time, probably quite a bit. He was on a book tour. Duh! So after getting Budd to 'admit' he spent two years of his life researching and writing a book and expected to get royalties this guy had this very knowing smile on his face and nodded his head as if he had managed to to undermine everything Budd was talking about. he was so very proud of himself.

He didn't, of course. He proved nothing and wound up making himself look like a fool. I talked to him afterwards and he said he 'just felt he had to say that in the interests of integrity,' mirroring some of the thoughts expressed here. In any case, it's a cheap shot.

 

[dad2059]

I thoroughly enjoyed the interview with MikeC, one of the best ones IMHO.

I thought MikeC's experiences weren't off the hook at all and the synchronicities with David's sounded pretty intriguing, although in an earlier time (perhaps not so long ago either?) they might've been considered "religious" experiences or epiphanies.

Who am I to say? My wife and my youngest daughter claim to have had visions of dead relatives while me and my oldest daughter haven't.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
(Hamlet Act 1)

Again, great show guys!

 

[BrandonD]

Great show, thanks Mike for sharing. If I had my way the guests on the Paracast would be 75% experiencers.

Regarding the forum, I'm kinda shocked at the general level of suspicion towards Mike. His demeanor doesn't fit the typical "ufo celebrity" personality at all, and his stories aren't all that fantastic. If he's a con man, I don't see much money in his future

Call me crazy, but I think the general consensus among those of us who are informed is that SOMETHING is definitely happening. And since Mike is not coming forward with "the answers", he hasn't hailed himself as some Prophet of the New Dawn or something like that, and he isn't saying anything less-believable than anyone else out there, I see no reason not to take his story at face value.

Regarding David's story that he's not yet recounted:

If the reason you haven't told your story yet is because of its traumatic nature, then I can completely understand and sympathize with your dilemma.

On the other hand, if you're hesitant to tell the story because you were the only witness and you don't trust such subjective accounts, I'd like to offer up something for consideration:

I believe that the "subjective" areas of this phenomenon have been tragically under-examined, and I feel that some greater understanding lies there. I think the areas of the world outside of our understanding always have the appearance of subjectivity, though they may not necessarily be such. (hence Arthur C Clarke's famous quote)

Our understanding is so small, so I think that delving into a mystery, and at the same time sticking to only what our cultural understanding can accommodate is like going fishing, but only trying to catch the fish that come to the surface next to the boat.

I'm sure someone can come up with a better analogy than that, but that's the best I can do on 2 hrs sleep.

 

[Blacknight]

Two people awake, in the middle of the sex act. That's not strange? Maybe I'm getting old.

Seems that whizzing sound was your crack flying over heads. Guess one must be a '50s kid to appreciate it?! For me, that may be the only thing I've read in this whole thread that made me laugh, or, more accurately, not frown. So, thanks for that. It's welcome in a "room" full of thrusts-and-parries.

 

[mike]

I don't really have a problem if someone puts up a post suggesting there isn't anything particularly paranormal about Mikec's experiences. He may feel some of his experiences are bizarre where most people might not see it that way. Really, it's not as if he took a ride on a spaceship. Its just an account of a personal journey in self-discovery and an accounting of what it is like at a conference. He may be easily amused. What's wrong with that? I'm kinda bored, myself, and it's nice to see people take an interest in the world and their surroundings. Mike's the kind of guy that would wax eloquent about being on a ferry boat in the middle of Puget Sound on a sunny day watching the City of Seattle getting bigger where I would say, 'It's running late, as usual. Why can't they leave the fucking dock on time and yer acting like an idiot.' People are different.

What I do take issue with is character assassination, questioning mikes's integrity or motivations, and suggesting a profit motive is involved. That, it seems to me, is a pretty low blow and so unnecessary. There's also no evidence of it. Mike is not soliciting donations to support a zero point energy device and building $100K dune buggies in his spare time. I'll bet you could go camping with him looking for moths and he wouldn't charge you anything. Well, at least not $800 bucks.

I saw Budd Hopkins in an interview years ago in my area and a guy from the floor made a special point of asking him if he made any money on his books. Of course he did. He got royalties, and for Missing Time, probably quite a bit. He was on a book tour. Duh! So after getting Budd to 'admit' he spent two years of his life researching and writing a book and expected to get royalties this guy had this very knowing smile on his face and nodded his head as if he had managed to to undermine everything Budd was talking about. he was so very proud of himself.

He didn't, of course. He proved nothing and wound up making himself look like a fool. I talked to him afterwards and he said he 'just felt he had to say that in the interests of integrity,' mirroring some of the thoughts expressed here. In any case, it's a cheap shot.

this is fascinating, you make reference after reference to Money...... but no one, not Rramjet, nor myself nor the person from another forum i quoted mentions money as a potential cause/motivator

so to say oh well those who propose alternative explainations for this case are wrong because hes not making any money is from my pov a bit inane.

now from my pov there is no shame in having delusions, it happens, and by MikeC's own words thats what happened in the matter of the "missing" lecture event.

but if thats the case, if this witness/experiencer is prone to delusional reality chunks, then that has to be factored into the equation.

theres no shame if the "answer" in this case is delusion, no shame at all, now if it were ego......

Mike, it's not a matter of holding anything against you. It's simply that (but not limited to):

1.) You've retrieved nothing under hypnosis.
2.) You believe you completely fabricated a memory of Dolores Cannon saying something she never said.
3.) Your immediate impulse when Hopkins (or is it Jacobs?) tells you he thinks you're an abductee is to say "No I'm not."
4.) You're dying to talk about "it" but there's no it there to talk about. A couple of half memories of something and synchronicities. Pretty much what everyone on the planet has.
5.) You constantly talk about your angst over this and yet nothing in your demeanor says you have any emotion invested in this at all.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh but really what I think you get out of all of this--whether or not you've had these experiences; ultimately, I can't know that--is ego gratification. I think that if left to your own devices you would warp into the next New Age guru overnight and that ultimately, in your heart of hearts, this is what you want. You want to be heard and it doesn't matter what it's about. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

now that would be different...........................

http://paratopia.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=radio&action=display&thread=179&page=1

 

[grannysmith]

Two people awake, in the middle of the sex act. That's not strange? Maybe I'm getting old.

It's happened to me several times, to be fair. I just assumed it was common but not really discussed in public.

 

[mikec]

Reply to Grannysmith:

You imply that you've had an experince similar to mine. The event that I shared (with some reluctance) on the recent podcast was extremely strange for me and my partner at the time.

Really? Both partners wake up at the same instant, from full sleep to a fully awake state.

Please, if your experience matches mine, I would be very interested to talk with you.

 

[Blacknight]

It's happened to me several times, to be fair. I just assumed it was common but not really discussed in public.

I'd imagine people wouldn't talk about it in public if they were only occasionally awake in the middle of having sex. It's generally accepted that both parties should be awake and participative, except in instances in which one party has an air valve attached.

 

[Schuyler]

this is fascinating, you make reference after reference to Money...... but no one, not Rramjet, nor myself nor the person from another forum i quoted mentions money as a potential cause/motivator

Really? Perhaps I misinterpreted:

whats the payoff ? when you ask me that question you are pulling a bait and switch....on yourself. why are you making a documentary? why did you mention the making over and over again?

I don't think that's too much of a stretch to interpret that as a monetary motivation.

there is always a payoff, always. "nothing to gain" is not a common human motivation

identify the payoff, and you'll have answered the "why"

Well, now maybe that's not about money, but geez: "payoff" used over and over again. Maybe it was just a metaphor. Perhaps I got off on my Budd Hopkins anecdote because I remember it so well. The term wasn't 'motivator' or 'reason' it was 'payoff.'

It's the same idea, though. The 'accuser' in this case was trying to impugn Hopkins testimony by finding a 'payoff,' a motivator that would discount what he was saying. It doesn't have to be 'money.' Perhaps 'ego gratification' is enough.

In any case, the thrust of my post was against character assassination. To pick out my comment about money and ignore the bulk of my post is something I find fascinating, myself. To wit:

Actually I am not sure about this Mike C character. In the first hour he talks a lot about essentially nothing while making it sound as if he is talking about something, name dropping with a certain arrogance but never talking about actual experiences, never able to answer a question directly, instead expounding his own impressions of how HE related or "connected" to others or how HE what he might interpret (unspecified) stories of others.

Is this a manufactured story? Taking bits and pieces from others to create his own story so he can get "into" the UFO community and there find ego gratification?

Synchronicity? Mike C "Does battle" in his own mind but has no insights or comments of value except to name drop and fail to attribute John Keel or Colin Wilson or Jaques Vallee his few ideas.

Mike C comes across as shallow and egotistical, parroting unoriginally on themes picked up from David and Gene... Gullibility and ego might not be a very healthy mix in Mike C.

Good conmen will make you feel they are attuned closely with your own ideas but they are simply playing your own thoughts back to you while name dropping associations with your own heros.

Final note on the 12345... THIS is the "Cosmic Joker" at work. Tantalising us with pearls among the garbage. Contradictions designed to blow our present conceptions and thoughts, which we have just formulated, right out of the water!

This kind of personal attack is not necessary. If you don't believe Mike's experiences were extraordinary, fine. I SAID THAT. But I have to wonder what the motivation for this vicious attack is as well. I'll quote mike here: "What's the payoff?" Why would anyone take on mikec here in such a nasty manner? It seems not only unwarranted, but way too strong a response given the original issue. It's like getting so angry that a dog peed on your lawn that you shoot him. The reaction here is way over the top.

 

[mike]

"identify the payoff" clearly the word "identify" signifies an unknown factor, at no stage was it meant to specify a monetary payoff, if i thought he was doing this for the "money" id have just said so.

and again you ignore the elephant in the room and make this about "the money"

why are you avoiding the real issue ?