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Marley Woods -- Amber Lights

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Well, I feel for ya there since your a Brewers fan. Looks like the Braves are doing their best to put the Phillies back in the drivers seat right now. I always say Baseball is a marathon so I'm hoping the Braves finish strong. I'm old school and still haven't gotten use to the Brewers in the N.L. :-)
 
Hoffmeister said:
In that case lets get Stephen Greer back on then! :)
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I agree, get him back on, then people like Paul Kimball could reappear and cross examine him to his heart's content. Hell even invite lance on and they could go at him in tandem. It would at least give poor old Gene a rest because as we have suddenly discovered, he doesn't seem able to ask the HARD questions:) Maybe he needs to take a break and let Kimball et al take over and steer the show in the direction they and the other detractors would like.
It seems that there is too much pouting and sulking from the sceptical movement about having people like Jarvis and Standford on. We should all be concerned about what they like or not.
Where is Paul anyway? He seems to spend a reasonable enough time on the forums commenting. Couldn't that time be put to better use by helping line up guests of a calibre that the current crop of gripers would drool over? I mean if you don't like the way the show is going then how about suggesting or bringing on guest that would purportedly give the show the credibility boost that you seem to think it needs, instead of whinging and bemoaning the current state of affairs.:) ( Or at least guests that haven't appeared on the show multiple times).

---------- Post added at 02:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------
Originally posted by Paul Kimball
At this point, then, the show is no longer really about good information, or looking for answers, but rather about pure entertainment, in which case, absolutely, get Greer back on and let him run wild, because he is entertaining, if nothing else. Follow that up with Linda Moulton Howe, and let her talk for 2 hours about drone photos, and Serpo, and whatever other nonsense she's into these days. Then you can have Steven Bassett back - he's always entertaining.

As for photos, I think most serious UFO researchers now view night-time photos of lights in the sky as more or less worthless (unless there is independent corroborative evidence, like radar tracking, etc.).

I just happen to have a great daylight photo of an alien landing on Earth:
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So this is all you have to offer us now Paul, silly pictures from your flying fluffy duck collection and a sour attitude? Snide remarks and poor attempts at sarcasm? Real mature. What, things not going too well in your life and you have vent your spleen at the show and various hosts now?
Apart from that, what new and exciting things do you have to offer us? Any guest that haven't been on 2 or 3 times before? (apart from McDonald and Davids). Any interesting subjects to talk about? Anything?
You seem to spend a lot of time and effort commenting on the forum about the calibre of guest and how all forum members who aren't card carrying members of the sceptical movement are now all "doe eyed believers".. Wouldn't that time be better served drumming up some new and interesting guests worthy of the direction you seem to want the show to go? Oh but thats right you have stepped away now. I guess we'll be seeing more flying ducks and elephants then.
What next? Hi def photos form your mysterious flying hubcap collection?
 
The Pair of Cats said:
So this is all you have to offer us now Paul, silly pictures from your flying fluffy duck collection and a sour attitude? Snide remarks and poor attempts at sarcasm? Real mature. What, things not going too well in your life and you have vent your spleen at the show and various hosts now?
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Real Mature? Since basically that entire post represented either a flame, or just someone getting stroppy because there are people out there who questions their beliefs then I would hardly call that mature.
If you notice, the skeptical people (Paul, Lance, Angel and I) here have been making comments on the show, or the guests... whilst you guys who disagree have been making posts about us rather than only concentrating on the subject matter. So basically we come in with some skeptical views on the show, simply because we want to see the show improve and go back to its former glory... and you guys have just been attacking us saying that we think we are 'smarter than thou' or that 'things aren't going too well in our lives'.
If you don't believe me, go and re-read all of yours or Chris's recent posts during the hot topics... almost every one contains a 'snide remark' as you say, or an attack on a skeptic for putting forward their view on the show.
The reason people are posting comments about the show needing to be a little tougher is because they want the show to get better and better.
 
Hoffmeister said:
Real Mature? Since basically that entire post represented either a flame, or just someone getting stroppy because there are people out there who questions their beliefs then I would hardly call that mature.
If you notice, the skeptical people (Paul, Lance, Angel and I) here have been making comments on the show, or the guests... whilst you guys who disagree have been making posts about us rather than only concentrating on the subject matter. So basically we come in with some skeptical views on the show, simply because we want to see the show improve and go back to its former glory... and you guys have just been attacking us saying that we think we are 'smarter than thou' or that 'things aren't going too well in our lives'.
If you don't believe me, go and re-read all of yours or Chris's recent posts during the hot topics... almost every one contains a 'snide remark' as you say, or an attack on a skeptic for putting forward their view on the show.
The reason people are posting comments about the show needing to be a little tougher is because they want the show to get better and better.
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Quite so, Hoff.

As for the bit about things not going well in my life, that's funny. My first feature film premieres at one of Canada's top film festivals in three weeks, I have two more in development (including the one based on the play Mac Tonnies and I co-wrote), and I have two paranormal television series lined up over the next year. I'm doing just fine, thanks.

What I don't have time for anymore is the lack of critical thinking that is taking root here. I helped Gene out when he needed help, to the point of even taking a look at the GCN contract for him. I don't regret doing any of that, and I have nothing against Gene. I wish him all the best. But he and Chris are taking the show down a path that I would never travel. For those that like it, that's great. For those who don't, they have a right, as Hoff does, and Angelo, and Lance, to express their displeasure about the direction of the show - just as others have the right to say, "hurray, best thing since sliced cheese," or whatever.

For those who want to listen in to my way of looking at things, pop by from time to time at www.tosot.podbean.com, or keep an eye on my blog at www.redstarfilms.blogspot.com. Comments are always welcome.

Anyway, I've made my views about where the show is going well known, and there's nothing more that needs to be said, at least from me.

Happy trails!
Paul
 
Im gonna say what everyone is thinking.


Bring Back Biedny. BBB - its a new meme.


But seriously, Paul, dont you think its a little dramatic to claim that Gene (and Chris) are taking the show down a path you would never travel? LOL dude. They have a couple of guests on who might seem a little "out there" and suddenly the Paracast is off down a path that the more lucid thinkers among us would not dare travel? Gimme a break. So not every guest is of the calibre of Leslie Kean.... so what?

And your inclusion of Lance among your group of those who are displeased with the current state of the Paracast is funny. The only thing that would displease Lance is if everyone here started turned uber-debunker and consequently left him without a place to pretend to be interested in alleged paranormal phenomena.
 
Hoffmeister said:
Real Mature? Since basically that entire post represented either a flame, or just someone getting stroppy because there are people out there who questions their beliefs then I would hardly call that mature.
If you notice, the skeptical people (Paul, Lance, Angel and I) here have been making comments on the show, or the guests... whilst you guys who disagree have been making posts about us rather than only concentrating on the subject matter. So basically we come in with some skeptical views on the show, simply because we want to see the show improve and go back to its former glory... and you guys have just been attacking us saying that we think we are 'smarter than thou' or that 'things aren't going too well in our lives'.
If you don't believe me, go and re-read all of yours or Chris's recent posts during the hot topics... almost every one contains a 'snide remark' as you say, or an attack on a skeptic for putting forward their view on the show.
The reason people are posting comments about the show needing to be a little tougher is because they want the show to get better and better.
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Well, so what? I was just responding to his "flame" of Gene and the show. Like attracts like. You guys can be as critical as you like about the show or guest, host or presenter or anything else for that matter. That is your right. But if you think that means others have to sit back and let it slide on buy then your sadly mistaken. You complain about Chris' snide comments but i see your not exactly squeaky clean when it comes to that topic either...
Originally Posted by Hoffmeister In that case lets get Stephen Greer back on then! :)
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..or were you just responding to something i wrote? If so then you are no better than me.:)

Sceptics being attacked? Perish the thought! Oh I forgot. Sceptics are the ones usually doing the attacking aren't they. Now that the boots on the other foot they all run around with their skirts over their heads crying foul because their opinions are getting questioned. Boo Hoo!

The point is it seems that for every one who hated the Phillips and Jarvis shows there are the same who didn't mind it. The world is not going to end just because those guys where on the show. If you, Kimball, Moody Angel and co. didn't like these shows, fine. Absolutely your right to complain about them. If me or Chris or anyone else doesn't agree with your criticism then it's absolutely our right to complain about that if we wish. Vive le difference!
And if you think that posting pics of flying fluffy ducks constitutes a balanced and well thought out response to that criticism well i guess that the sceptical movement must have a lot of fluffy ducks.

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------
Gareth said:
Im gonna say what everyone is thinking.


Bring Back Biedny. BBB - its a new meme.


But seriously, Paul, dont you think its a little dramatic to claim that Gene (and Chris) are taking the show down a path you would never travel? LOL dude. They have a couple of guests on who might seem a little "out there" and suddenly the Paracast is off down a path that the more lucid thinkers among us would not dare travel? Gimme a break. So not every guest is of the calibre of Leslie Kean.... so what?

And your inclusion of Lance among your group of those who are displeased with the current state of the Paracast is funny. The only thing that would displease Lance is if everyone here started turned uber-debunker and consequently left him without a place to pretend to be interested in alleged paranormal phenomena.
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Agreed. There have been times in the past when there were bad shows and the show seemed to survive those moments, Karl Mamer, any show with The Clueless One, Doug.
 
The Pair of Cats said:
You complain about Chris' snide comments but i see your not exactly squeaky clean when it comes to that topic either... ..or were you just responding to something i wrote? If so then you are no better than me.:)
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How was that an attack on anybody? I was making a valid point, that if we are just going get people on because we like to listen to their stories as you said, then why not bring back Steven Greer? It was my way of asking 'where do you draw the line?', which is a question that still hasn't really been answered..
I haven't posted flaming messages attacking anyone personally or saying that people lives are going down the toilet.

The only reason I am making any comments (and they are on the whole constructive ones) is because a show that I used to love listening to hasn't really been appealing to me recently and I wish it would. I have said more than once that I appreciate the work that the hosts are doing, and i'm not singling out any one person or making harsh remarks about them... I'm still absolutely bemused about why people take these things so personally and get so stroppy and offensive about it.

For the record, when I felt Biedny was being too harsh on people back in the day, I made posts about that too
Also for the record, I have never said that I have a problem with the Louis Jarvis show, I understand that some people like to listen to that stuff, and I understand that the paracast appeals to a wide range of audiences, not just people like me. I simply chose not to listen to it as I knew it wouldn't be to my tastes. Louis isn't taking money from the public so I have no qualms with him.
 
Christopher O'Brien said:
OK, I have a prediction: I prophecize that Lance, Angel, Paul, Frank (oh he's not here) et al., well, you know the guys--They will immediately pounce on these shots as just another bunch of glowing lights in the sky that absolutely mean nothing, have no relevance in any way shape or form, have no value and there may even be hints at possible hoaxing or something shady.

I'm no psychic but this type of uber-skepticism is highly predictable... :)
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Good thing you offered a disclaimer there, or they would have debunked your claim of psychic abilities too.
 
I was the third investigator in on the Marley Woods case back in 1999. The pictures posted in this thread illustrating the Marley Woods Lights are a pretty good representation of them; I have done magnifications of pictures taken there with my camera by the landowner; they are unusual; there is alot of other phenomena going on there on a pretty continuous basis and I do take issue with how Ted Phillips portrays some of the phenomena.

Ted calls all the crop circle-like grass swirls landing traces for instance. If you want to see an article on the first crop circle seen and analyzed there, look at the cover article in the Jan. 2000 issue of the MUFON Journal archived at The Black Vault website.

If you want to see video of the Lights, there are clips shown within Ted's presentations given at the Eureka Springs AR conference on several different years. I think he showed the first video, taken by the landowner, at his talk in April of 1999. There are at least two short videos posted to YouTube. One I have seen shows the unique light-splitting aspect of the light phenomena. Those lights also demonstrate the quick on and off aspect - as if a switch had been thrown.

Marley Woods is an anomaly area approximately 15 miles wide so other phenomena has occurred nearby that Ted does not know about. Anomaly areas like MW (and the Skinwalker Ranch) are perhaps more common than suspected as there are at least three other areas I have discovered like it in MO alone.

MO MUFON in 1998 under the leadership of then state director Bruce Widaman "gave" the Marley Woods case to Ted for his personal use. In other words, the original phone call went from Bruce to Ted as at that time no incoming cases were shared with other investigators in the state. That is my beef. That is also why, in my opinion, so little good investigative work has been done at the location. Lots of stories but little instumented proof. I was ready to install a radar unit around 2003 when it became obvious I would not have the support to do so because of Ted.

MUFON large and growing database could be analyzed to reveal more locations like this but no attempt to do so has been made. In other words, I have asked various MUFON reps why they have not identified areas where permanent research stations could be located like the one in Hessdalen Norway and I have gotten the thousand yard stare in each case.

GH
 
There have been several iterations of MUFON's Star Team with the first starting in 2007 according to former NC state director Richard Lang in a message to the Edge of Reality Forum's The MUFON Purge Continues thread: http://theedgeofreality.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=otherufo&action=display&thread=355&page=3 See page three.

I have worked with Elaine Douglass recently to gather information regarding charges that some MUFON higher-ups skim cases before they are sent to the Star Team as it exists today. In fact recently when I asked a question about this on the Star Team mail list after hearing this from multiple sources, Clifford Clift ducked the question and MUFON's Marie Malzahn stripped me of both my Star Team and Field Investigator status in short order. I must have struck a raw nerve, and, according to my investigative work, it does appear that even the elite Star Team does not get the best cases coming through MUFON's website.

This is just one reason why the Commitee to Reform MUFON has made an extraordinary effort recently to get a voting MUFON member on MUFON's Board of Directors. Currently MUFON members have no say in how the Board of Directors and thus MUFON as a whole operates. At one time in MUFON's history members did have a right to vote on MUFON matters but this right mysteriously disappeared at some point.

GH
 
The general Marley Woods area has been publicly identified three times so I see nothing wrong with posting this information since the locals and principle landowner were comfortable with it when this information was given out by them:

1) Area newspaper: <!--StartFragment -->http://www.textfiles.com/ufo/UFOBBS/1000/1257.ufo

2) Book: Weird Missouri - The light pictures that appear here are mine and they were published without attribution.

3) Forum post: find for yourself. The person posting is practically begging for investigators to properly research the area.

GH

---------- Post added at 12:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

I should add that Ted is right in noting virtually all the land in that area is private and you will be met with a shotgun if you tresspass. Secrecy works up to a point - until it prevents proper investigation by qualified investigators. Ted has thrown out several people who had tried to investigate the area with him using instruments and/or signaling devices. Two examples were the present MUFON state director Debbie Zieggelmeyer and her brother Chuck Zukowski. Go figure.

GH
 
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