Meet Your Meat

[Xylo]

Here's an interesting look at a small part of the process of processing YOUR meat....
Purchasing and eating meat should be a licensed privilege. A mandatory three-day training should be enacted giving you a complete look at the process of getting the meat into your supermarket. Birth canal-to-plastic wrap. After a training/licensing process, I wonder how many people would become instant vegetarians... Here's a "taste" of how it's done in today's modern world... And this is the clinical Japanese version... the western version is much more bloody, dirty & disturbing.

Weekday Vegetarian here.

I've knew a guy that worked at a slaughterhouse. I think he lasted 3 or 4 days. It's just ultimately disturbing to kill helpless beings for a living.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

When I was very, very young, my parents would be cut up chicken from a slaughter house. I think I went with them a few times, then decided not to go again. It's not that I stopped eating chicken or beef, though I don't do much of the latter for other reasons. But I prefer to delude myself that things are done in a less offensive fashion now. I know that's not true, but…

 

[Xylo]

I get your point, but I'm of the opinion that animals in the wild have a hard enough time as it is without being hunted by humans too. We grow our own animals for our own consumption. We have no need to kill the wild ones too, so we should leave the "mighty hunter" attitude on the shelf, and if we're gonna eat meat, be content with the domesticated ones we've already killed.

That "mighty hunter" attitude may be pervasive in a lot of circles, but hunting is crucial to the survival of some species...deer, in particular. There has to be some predation on these species or they will die off. I know it sounds like an oxymoron but it's true. When populations get too large, diseases spread very quickly....and these diseased deer will die slowly and painfully. Or the other option is that these animals, without any space to roam, choose to cohabit with humans. And deer will eat almost any plant in the yard, not just veggies.

Further, a great many hunters participate in programs where they donate the meat to charities that feed those in need.

So yeah, that "mighty hunter" attitude, while boastful, actually does some good.

 

[Randall]

That "mighty hunter" attitude may be pervasive in a lot of circles, but hunting is crucial to the survival of some species...deer, in particular. There has to be some predation on these species or they will die off. I know it sounds like an oxymoron but it's true.

Well, they used to have predation ( like wolves ), but the mighty hunters shot them too . Conservationists have even tried reintroducing wolves to help restore the balance, but they still get shot. It's sick . And besides that, dying off from natural causes is still different than humans killing them off in the wild. The only redeeming facet of it is that it is regulated to some extent and that there are still protected wildlife areas. But don't get me entirely wrong here. I think responsible regulated hunting should remain legal and I do my best not to be too judgmental. I acknowledge the fact that I eat meat once in a while, but there's no way I can justify hunting for my own needs because I just don't consume enough and it would end up going to waste. The supermarket or the butcher shop are my only responsible choices.

 

[Michael Allen]

 

[Xylo]

Well, they used to have predation ( like wolves ), but the mighty hunters shot them too . Conservationists have even tried reintroducing wolves to help restore the balance, but they still get shot. It's sick . And besides that, dying off from natural causes is still different than humans killing them off in the wild. The only redeeming facet of it is that it is regulated to some extent and that there are still protected wildlife areas. But don't get me entirely wrong here. I think responsible regulated hunting should remain legal and I do my best not to be too judgmental. I acknowledge the fact that I eat meat once in a while, but there's no way I can justify hunting for my own needs because I just don't consume enough and it would end up going to waste. The supermarket or the butcher shop are my only responsible choices.

Ok, misunderstanding, I thought your tone was one of the "no hunting should ever be allowed" type.

Yes, one of my pet peeves is "predator" hunting, or "varmint" killing. Animals like bears, coyotes, puma, wolves, ferrets, raccoons and badgers have a place in the ecosystem. And part of their role is to kill off the weak, old and sick within a population of prey animals. So to rid a system of the predators makes no sense. Further, the hunters don't kill the weak, old and sick...they kill the "trophy" animals. (so overall it doesn't help to strengthen a population.

@Michael Allen

That's one of my favorite bits.

 

[Golemfrost]

Well there´s a good reason i support my local farmers and butchers.

 

[chikane]

I have known plenty of meat processors. Most of them can't get another job.

which is understandable, nobody would like this kind of job, so low paid, with hard conditions, and somehow deshumanizing.

Once you have killed a large animal then gutted, butchered and ate it, you get desensitized a little.

well, some definitely can't get used to. They just put their mind aside the time they get another job. I have always a feeling of shame and sadness when I see these trucks loaded with animals destined to slaughterhouses. It brings to my mind the holocaust of the WWII and how we still see and treat other living and conscious beings : some pure material for our wishes, and it makes me wonder where is humanity here? It seems it didn't make us rethink things that much...

 

[Han]

Its is impossible for me to detach my emotions when writing about this subject, so please forgive my naivety and remember that I live in england so can only speak from this aspect:

In an ideal world I would like to see:
(1) meat being the most expensive food
(2) less meat per person consumed
(3) laws regarding the treatment of animals during transport and slaughter being reviewed and enforced more vigourously
(4) "Slaughtermen" to be given training like a doctor or vet (university course) and to be paid, valued and respected highly (e.g. veterinarians or soldiers*)
(5) the fishes to be reclassified as "animals" (and therefore fall under laws protecting traditional "animals")**

I must also say that I dont think it is fair to blame the people who "work" in the meat factories the blame lays far higher up and ultimately with us the consumers who demand "cheap" meat.

*on reflection soldiers are not payed well when compared to other professions.

** I would debate any person that claims (1) fish don't have feelings (/emotions) (2) fish do not feel pain & (3) any other fallacy regarding the seperation of the "fishes" and the "animals"

In a nutshell: I am saddened that the current classification of fishes results in them being not shown the "respect"
that other creatures are, and that is (the respect) far too little in any case!

 

[pixelsmith]

Its is impossible for me to detach my emotions when writing about this subject, so please forgive my naivety and remember that I live in england so can only speak from this aspect:

In an ideal world I would like to see:
(1) meat being the most expensive food
(2) less meat per person consumed
(3) laws regarding the treatment of animals during transport and slaughter being reviewed and enforced more vigourously
(4) "Slaughtermen" to be given training like a doctor or vet (university course) and to be paid, valued and respected highly (e.g. veterinarians or soldiers*)
(5) the fishes to be reclassified as "animals" (and therefore fall under laws protecting traditional "animals")**

I must also say that I dont think it is fair to blame the people who "work" in the meat factories the blame lays far higher up and ultimately with us the consumers who demand "cheap" meat.

*on reflection soldiers are not payed well when compared to other professions.

** I would debate any person that claims (1) fish don't have feelings (/emotions) (2) fish do not feel pain & (3) any other fallacy regarding the seperation of the "fishes" and the "animals"

In a nutshell: I am saddened that the current classification of fishes results in them being not shown the "respect"
that other creatures are, and that is (the respect) far too little in any case!

I think fish are pretty cool animals. I am curious how you came to the conclusion that fish have emotions.

I am interested in these emotions you have, are you saying you are emotionally attached to animals and that you do not believe you or other people should eat them? Do you feel we are equal to all other animals in the food chain? What does your daily food intake consist of?

 

[chikane]

Its is impossible for me to detach my emotions when writing about this subject, so please forgive my naivety and remember that I live in england so can only speak from this aspect:

In an ideal world I would like to see:
(1) meat being the most expensive food
(2) less meat per person consumed
(3) laws regarding the treatment of animals during transport and slaughter being reviewed and enforced more vigourously
(4) "Slaughtermen" to be given training like a doctor or vet (university course) and to be paid, valued and respected highly (e.g. veterinarians or soldiers*)
(5) the fishes to be reclassified as "animals" (and therefore fall under laws protecting traditional "animals")**

I can't agree more with this, just that it belongs to us to make this ideal world , or at least get as near as possible. We sure can do (and some are doing) many things to improve what you say in your points 2, 3 & 4.

I must also say that I dont think it is fair to blame the people who "work" in the meat factories the blame lays far higher up and ultimately with us the consumers who demand "cheap" meat.

Sure, these factories work on the consumers demand...Although there are also some damn real sadistic and dumb people who work there that allowed themselves to do really bad things on these helpless animals.

** I would debate any person that claims (1) fish don't have feelings (/emotions) (2) fish do not feel pain & (3) any other fallacy regarding the seperation of the "fishes" and the "animals"

In a nutshell: I am saddened that the current classification of fishes results in them being not shown the "respect"
that other creatures are, and that is (the respect) far too little in any case!

Biology and life is so complex that it is very difficult to ascertain what others creatures may feel when we further the species with which we share common caracteristics (mammals...). Speaking of fishes, I don't know exactly about emotions (and that would need a clear definition of it) but I'm defintely convinced they can feel pain as they have a nervous system and brain, though maybe not as much complex as ours. I'd like to expand much on this but I have to leave right now, so maybe later.

 

[Han]

I reached the conclusion that fish have emotions based on personal expieriance and from things I have read and seen:
A few examples are
(1) I had an aquarium with tropical fish, one of the kinds of fish I kept were called "kissing gouramis" to cut a long story short you buy these fish in "pairs" as they "mate" for life and when one died the other was "heart broken" and died soon afterwards.
(2) I have seen very large fish in far too small tanks in pet shops, and they to my eyes at least, look bored and sad, a bit like lizzrads and snakes do when I see them in the same conditions.
(3) I have seen (on tv) a squid flash a whole series of warning and distress signals when hooked.
(4) I have seen small male cuttle fish impersonate female ones to deceive larger male rivals in order to mate with a female*
(5) I have seen a giant octopus mother guard and care for her eggs with more dedication than a lot of birds.**
(6) Many fish return to where they where born/hatched and so must have some sort of knowledge of navigation like homing pidgeons for example.
Here is a segment from a book about fish and emotions:
do fish feel pain? | fishcount.org.uk

here is a scientific paper on fish hunting cooperatively PLOS Biology: Interspecific Communicative and Coordinated Hunting between Groupers and Giant Moray Eels in the Red Sea


Regarding being emotionaly attached to animals I would have to say that I am, I have had pets and when they died or were ill I was genuinly distressed. Having said that I think humans are top of the food chain and have a "right" and desire to eat animals, but in my opinion only if the animal in question is treated with respect, and not as a walking £ or $ sign.
As for what I eat I would have to say that I am very dependant on dairy products and I will only buy "organic" products I am well aware that the dairy and meat industries go hand in hand (I guess thats why in my earlier post I stated that I was emotionaly biased on this subject because I know I am a hypocrate on this matter but I could not live happily as a vegan)

Lastly just for clarity I would "like" people to buy and eat more responsibly but I do not have the "right" or inclination to tell anybody what is right or wrong for them.

P.s. I am hoping in the near future to read this book "do fish feel pain victoria braithwaite 2010 (Professor of fisheries and biology)


*Female impersonation as an alternative reproductive strategy in giant cuttlefish
**The Hardest-Working Mom On The Planet : Krulwich Wonders... : NPR

 

[Sue]

Rather than start a new thread somewhere else I'm just going to drop this link in here. It's an online course offered from the University of Florida through Coursera:

Coursera.org

Personally I'm not sure if I have the stomach for it -

The Meat We Eat
The Meat We Eat is a course designed to create a more informed consumer about the quality, safety, healthfulness and sustainability of muscle foods and address current issues in animal agriculture in developed and developing countries.

The average American is now at least three generations removed from production agriculture. This leads to the disconnection between how the public views agriculture and how scientists and producers view it, resulting in consumer distrust of science and commercial food production. It is this lack of trust which leads to consumer confusion and the urge to grasp at multiple solutions. However a growing number of consumers in developed countries are aspiring to “know where their food comes from”. Animal agriculture needs to explain the technology which will be used to sustainably feed 9 billion people by 2050.

Lectures will cover all aspects of muscle foods production, processing, preparation, cooking and storage. Additionally, the role of muscle foods in a balanced diet will be addressed as will issues which contribute to consumers limiting or eliminating meat from their diets.

 

[Han]

I find it interesting that animal welfare does not seem to be mentioned apart from "humane slaughter" as I think that this is one of the main reasons people decide to be more "food aware".

Course Syllabus
Week 1: U.S. history, production systems, and comparison with international systems

Week 2: Humane slaughter and muscle composition

Week 3: U.S. inspection and food safety

Week 4: U.S. grading, fabrication, bulk purchasing, and packaging

Week 5: Palatability, cooking & processing



Week 6: The healthfulness of meat in the diet, growth promoting technologies & sustainability

Week 7: Final Week - work on peer evaluations

 

[exo_doc]

I grew up on a farm where we regularly slaughtered and dressed hogs. I used to hunt and eat squirrel, rabbit, turkey, but I've never been a big fan of deer though. I guess in my old age I just don't feel like killing anymore for my food unless I have to.

 

[boomerang]

Alas, humans love the taste of animal protein. They will stop consuming it in large quantities when one of two things happen: a) It is no longer available or b) When food technology manages to manufacture artificial meat that tastes like the real thing.

In the meantime, I personally think a more realistic approach is to regulate how animals are treated while alive and how they are slaughtered. Even eating a little lower down the food chain--from pork and beef to chicken and fish, would be a laudable goal. And I do think today's lifestyle has disconnected most of us with the the reality of death, both animal and human. If one is unhappy about the fact that prime rib and bacon taste so darned fantastic to humans, we can either deny that fact or busily get to work creating non-animal substitutes than satisfy innate cravings for quality animal protein, the most powerful nutritional currency in the food chain. I would love to see a push for accelerated research in meat synthesis.

 

[Golemfrost]

@Christopher O'Brien
sry for the hijack, I didn't really want to start a new thread about this, anyways I'd just like to comment on something that came to mind listening to one of the previous shows, in which you mentioned some cows that were marked with some sort of fluorescent agent.
The answer to what this could be is rather simple, a wide variety of oils (like wd40, petroleum, etc) have fluorescent properties under ultraviolet light and they are used everywhere . Cattle that come in contact with a freshly oiled surface like a gate or simular would get it on their fur/hide and it would remain fluorescent for a while till they rubbed it off.