Michio Kaku vs SETI: ET communication

[Ezechiel]

Just because we can't decipher some ancient languages doesn't mean they don't tell us plenty. You may know the famous Picasso saying, "Good artists copy, great artists steal." That's the history of human development in a nutshell. I like my current mouse trap just fine, but if I see one that does a better job than mine, I want to know why and how and if I can figure it out, I'll upgrade my next mouse trap model. It's why we have corporate and military security and espionage.

I think there is solid, verifiable evidence that we have reverse engineered alien vehicles. I'm not going to tell you I think it adds up to case closed proof, but the evidence is strong enough to merit a closer look.

FFS we're reverse engineering spiderweb to eventually make 'stronger than steel' cables. And then there's what you can call 'inspiration': 100 years ago or so... looking at birds, a couple of brothers decided they'd try building an airplane.....

Not to mention... that its the first thing warring nations tried to do throughout history... copy the other guy's tech.

 

[Trajanus]

I've got a hunch that our carbon-based design (DNA), shaped by millions of years of mutation is pervasive in the universe...

Right, it's better than silicon.

Without an asteroid impact reset... we'd probably have a reptilian form

I don't know; primates, albeit primitive, had already appeared before the K-T. They might've evolved in arboreal niches even had the dinos persisted longer.

---------- Post added at 11:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

I'm not nearly convinced that alien technology has been retrieved, much less reverse engineered. Nothing in our history of technological advancement has represented a leap forward so dramatic that would justify such supposition...

It may look that way but any reverse engineered stuff is likely to be under wraps and inaccessible to us laymen.

 

[Frank Stalter]

FFS we're reverse engineering spiderweb to eventually make 'stronger than steel' cables. And then there's what you can call 'inspiration': 100 years ago or so... looking at birds, a couple of brothers decided they'd try building an airplane.....

Not to mention... that its the first thing warring nations tried to do throughout history... copy the other guy's tech.
View attachment 1940

Hahaha . . . oh yes. Great ideas . . . where do they come from? We should never underestimate perspiration either. Facius_Cardan's point about people who dedicate their careers to new breakthroughs is quite correct. We should never forget the development of Stealth tech though. The foundation of our success with it was the work of a Soviet scientist, Pyotr Ufimtsev, who was ignored in his own country.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qZ...&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Trajanus]

... The foundation of our success with it was the work of a Soviet scientist, Pyotr Ufimtsev, who was ignored in his own country.

For the most part, the soviets copied our stuff.

 

[NTS]

"For the most part, the soviets copied our stuff."

They did a lot of original work, especially in military/space-related fields. See this, for instance:

http://www.mentallandscape.com/V_Venus.htm

 

[Facius_Cardan]

It may look that way but any reverse engineered stuff is likely to be under wraps and inaccessible to us laymen.

To me the whole concept of reverse engineering alien technology is solely based on speculation. Besides, would a government and/or company spend years and millions of dollars on such effort just to put it "under wraps"? Where's the benefit in there? They would suck everything they could out of that alien technology and start applying it to military and commercial projects. That's where the profit would come from.
How can one make such peremptory claims without a single shred of evidence (or logic reasoning) to support them? It's easy to say "we have crashed saucers in our possession" and, when questioned about the validity of such claims, just answer that "the government and the military are hiding them in inaccessible secret places and using alien technology just for their benefit".
I think it's time people stop making unfounded and unsubstatiated claims and start looking at the UFO phenomena for what it is. Humans have an innate penchant for mysteries and cunundrums, a characteristic that often makes us complicate something even further just to make sure that something remains perpetually enigmatic. We have enough unexplained stuff in our world and such way of thinking is totally unnecessary.

 

[Trajanus]

They did a lot of original work, especially in military/space-related fields. See this, for instance:

For the most part, they just copied, from Germans, Americans and others. The AK-47 and RPG, for example, were based on german models.

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

To me the whole concept of reverse engineering alien technology is solely based on speculation.

No, people have reported seeing it.

Besides, would a government and/or company spend years and millions of dollars on such effort just to put it "under wraps"? Where's the benefit in there? They would suck everything they could out of that alien technology and start applying it to military and commercial projects. That's where the profit would come from.

They have lack the ability to produce it in quantity, and such an attempt could jeopardize secrecy. For now, they may have it as a secret weapon of last resort.

It's easy to say "we have crashed saucers in our possession" and, when questioned about the validity of such claims, just answer that "the government and the military are hiding them in inaccessible secret places...

But people have seen and reported crash retrieval episodes. The government could keep it under wraps.

 

[Elendil]

They have lack the ability to produce it in quantity, and such an attempt could jeopardize secrecy. For now, they may have it as a secret weapon of last resort.

Why hide something like that? If you have a fancy new weapon, I'd say it's rather likely that you're gonna use it or at least show the other cats that you're the meanest MF on the geopolitical block wielding a plasma cannon or a BFG. So, it seems to me that, if the US had any alien-reversed tech that is usable, there should be some usage in the war arena. Maybe there is something in the hangars but no-one figured out how to make it work so far...

 

[Ron Collins]

The funny thing is that this incomprehensibility also works the other way around. There are many artifacts from our past whose purpose still eludes us (and probably will always do). Also there are ancient languages/writing systems that remain unreadable. And all that was created by human beings, just like us, but some centuries or millennia ago.
I'm not nearly convinced that alien technology has been retrieved, much less reverse engineered. Nothing in our history of technological advancement has represented a leap forward so dramatic that would justify such supposition.That would be direspecting the men and women who spent their lives inventing things like jet propulsion, silicon chips and computer networks. If anyone can come forward with solid, verifiable evidence for such claims I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong.

I think technology is a bit different than stones or bone artifacts. I think it will be a whole lot easier to identify technology. Especially now that we have it and are actively miniaturizing it we know what to look for. Even in the 1940's we still knew the basics to look for. If we were presented with technology we could identify it's elemental make and start asking questions. In time we could gleen a bunch of knowledge.

 

[Trajanus]

Why hide something like that? If you have a fancy new weapon, I'd say it's rather likely that you're gonna use it or at least show the other cats that you're the meanest MF on the geopolitical block wielding a plasma cannon or a BFG. So, it seems to me that, if the US had any alien-reversed tech that is usable, there should be some usage in the war arena...

Like nuclear weapons it could be only as a last resort, albeit for different reasons. Maybe they don't want to reveal them since it would point to ET origins hence end secrecy, with who-knows what consequences. Or maybe they don't want foreign governments to know for sure the US has them. That way, the US could retain a near-monopoly or at least a big lead at some future date when mass production is possible, assuming it isn't now.

 

[Facius_Cardan]

No proof has ever been put forward to support alien crash retrieval tales anywhere in the world. Most cases are misinterpretations or outright lies sold by crooks to a gullible audience. To theorize on such bunk is a waste of time so, accordingly, I won't make any further comments on the subject.

 

[Trajanus]

No proof has ever been put forward to support alien crash retrieval tales anywhere in the world.

Not surprising given that witnesses have seen it confiscated and hauled away.

Most cases are misinterpretations or outright lies sold by crooks to a gullible audience.

Many are, but some appear valid.

To theorize on such bunk is a waste of time so, accordingly, I won't make any further comments on the subject.

Just as well since you don't appear particularly well-informed or open minded.

 

[Frank Stalter]

No proof has ever been put forward to support alien crash retrieval tales anywhere in the world. Most cases are misinterpretations or outright lies sold by crooks to a gullible audience. To theorize on such bunk is a waste of time so, accordingly, I won't make any further comments on the subject.

A couple pages back there was no evidence, now it's no proof. I love the way some folks like to move the goal posts in the middle of the game.

 

[Ron Collins]

Why hide something like that? If you have a fancy new weapon, I'd say it's rather likely that you're gonna use it or at least show the other cats that you're the meanest MF on the geopolitical block wielding a plasma cannon or a BFG. So, it seems to me that, if the US had any alien-reversed tech that is usable, there should be some usage in the war arena. Maybe there is something in the hangars but no-one figured out how to make it work so far...

The military doesn't really want limited production "last resort" vehicles. They want a huge ROI off of research. Otherwise there are a thousand other programs that will be given the funds and researchers. Just like a company they have to justify their budget. After 50 years if we were able to reproduce the craft we would mass produce them for everything from fighters to troop transport. Air superiority is the cornerstone of modern military might. Those who have it will need to work extra hard to keep it. Such a reversed engineered craft would guarantee that superiority for decades. I don't believe they would pass that up.

 

[Trajanus]

The military doesn't really want limited production "last resort" vehicles. They want a huge ROI off of research. Otherwise there are a thousand other programs that will be given the funds and researchers. Just like a company they have to justify their budget. After 50 years if we were able to reproduce the craft we would mass produce them for everything from fighters to troop transport...

It's possible they can produce (reverse engineer) a few of them without being able to mass produce them. No matter how great a weapon system is, if it costs, say, $2 billion per unit, or requires quantities of some material in very short supply, there won't be many of them around.

 

[NTS]

Trajanus:

"For the most part, they just copied, from Germans, Americans and others. The AK-47 and RPG, for example, were based on german models."

Did you actually look at the link, which shows examples of a lot of originality by Soviet scientists?

 

[Frank Stalter]

Did you actually look at the link, which shows examples of a lot of originality by Soviet scientists?

In the space race, we were playing catch up to the Soviets for a decade. The list of firsts they achieved is a long one.

 

[Trajanus]

In the space race, we were playing catch up to the Soviets for a decade. The list of firsts they achieved is a long one.

Yes but that was due to the higher priority they could give to space. Despite its greater wealth, it wasn't always easy for the US to equal or surpass them, because for the most part, space wasn't very popular with voters, who preferred programs of more immediate, personal benefit.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

Trajanus:

"For the most part, they just copied, from Germans, Americans and others. The AK-47 and RPG, for example, were based on german models."

Did you actually look at the link, which shows examples of a lot of originality by Soviet scientists?

Sure, but generally, the soviets were anything but innovative. They copied western engines, jets etc. Even the SAM-6, which earned quite a reputation in '73, was based on an integral rocket-ramjet designed in the west.

 

[Ezechiel]

To me the whole concept of reverse engineering alien technology is solely based on speculation. Besides, would a government and/or company spend years and millions of dollars on such effort just to put it "under wraps"? Where's the benefit in there? They would suck everything they could out of that alien technology and start applying it to military and commercial projects. That's where the profit would come from.
How can one make such peremptory claims without a single shred of evidence (or logic reasoning) to support them? It's easy to say "we have crashed saucers in our possession" and, when questioned about the validity of such claims, just answer that "the government and the military are hiding them in inaccessible secret places and using alien technology just for their benefit".
I think it's time people stop making unfounded and unsubstatiated claims and start looking at the UFO phenomena for what it is. Humans have an innate penchant for mysteries and cunundrums, a characteristic that often makes us complicate something even further just to make sure that something remains perpetually enigmatic. We have enough unexplained stuff in our world and such way of thinking is totally unnecessary.

That's the whole point: To, once and for all, get the lid off the can and stop listening to this guy

 

[trainedobserver]

I think it's time people stop making unfounded and unsubstatiated claims and start looking at the UFO phenomena for what it is. Humans have an innate penchant for mysteries and cunundrums, a characteristic that often makes us complicate something even further just to make sure that something remains perpetually enigmatic. We have enough unexplained stuff in our world and such way of thinking is totally unnecessary.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. As someone who has been looking into the subject since the sixties I have come to realize that I need to take a step back and really look at the assumptions about what I generally accept as "knowledge" about the subject. The fact of the matter is we know little or nothing of real consequence. The conduit of information has long been controlled and used by military intelligence toward their own ends which have little or nothing to do with anything unidentified to them.