NEW 9/11 Thread

[pixelsmith]

My main question is this: How many of these claims have you (pixelsmith) verified through your own research through primary sources?

none. what is your point? i also have not verified through primary sources; the moon landings, that obama is president, that the earth is spherical, etc etc.
i also have asked that no one believe a word i say. research for yourself and it will sink in better.

 

[Xylo]

none. what is your point? i also have not verified through primary sources; the moon landings, that obama is president, that the earth is spherical, etc etc.
i also have asked that no one believe a word i say. research for yourself and it will sink in better.

Geez get defensive. You opened a thread for discussion didn't you? I am discussing. If you just want a thread to spout your viewpoint, and your biased resources you should have said that from the start.

I'm asking because I AM trying to verify a great deal of these claims and am having a very difficult time doing so. There's a great deal of secondary and third-hand information out there from dubious sources. Finding some sort of primary source would help me legitimize if this is or is not a waste of time.

Part of "Separating signal from noise" includes independent verification of claims, or at least an attempt to do so. If you haven't done any research at all, then you're part of the noise.

And that is my point.

 

[pixelsmith]

Geez get defensive. You opened a thread for discussion didn't you? I am discussing. If you just want a thread to spout your viewpoint, and your biased resources you should have said that from the start.

I'm asking because I AM trying to verify a great deal of these claims and am having a very difficult time doing so. There's a great deal of secondary and third-hand information out there from dubious sources. Finding some sort of primary source would help me legitimize if this is or is not a waste of time.

Part of "Separating signal from noise" includes independent verification of claims, or at least an attempt to do so. If you haven't done any research at all, then you're part of the noise.

And that is my point.

I have researched this since October 2001. I have not talked to first responders or any witnesses. Have you? I don't mean to come off as so defensive but I have spent hundreds of hours pouring over every shred of information (including WTC blueprints) that I can find. It "walks, talks and quacks like a duck." The official story is pure fallacy.

 

[Xylo]

I have researched this since October 2001. I have not talked to first responders or any witnesses. Have you?

Yes actually I have. One of my roommates was across the street from the Pentagon when the impact occurred. He was in the Army at the time and was part of the cleanup crew. I spoke to him extensively about his experiences in the following few hours.


I am trying to approach this thread in a rational and somewhat skeptical manner, in other words I am attempting to verfiy as many claims in these videos as I can. It's quite difficult to do, but I'm trying. And that's all that I can do. I won't follow blindly either side, and I won't comment fully upon the "official" version of the story until I read the whole report either. And then I'll try to verify the "official" claims as well.

I'm not sure if you were alive or adult during the Reagan Presidency, but there was a wonderful saying he had in dealing with the Soviets nuclear capability and disarmament; "Trust, but verify." I think that fully applies to this particular issue as well, with a strong emphasis on the "verify."

 

[pixelsmith]

Yes actually I have. One of my roommates was across the street from the Pentagon when the impact occurred. He was in the Army at the time and was part of the cleanup crew. I spoke to him extensively about his experiences in the following few hours.


I am trying to approach this thread in a rational and somewhat skeptical manner, in other words I am attempting to verfiy as many claims in these videos as I can. It's quite difficult to do, but I'm trying. And that's all that I can do. I won't follow blindly either side, and I won't comment fully upon the "official" version of the story until I read the whole report either. And then I'll try to verify the "official" claims as well.

I'm not sure if you were alive or adult during the Reagan Presidency, but there was a wonderful saying he had in dealing with the Soviets nuclear capability and disarmament; "Trust, but verify." I think that fully applies to this particular issue as well, with a strong emphasis on the "verify."

I have read the "full" official report. The omissions are staggering.
My parents made me watch this when I was a child. It meant nothing to me at the time. It speaks volumes now.

 

[Xylo]

I have read the "full" official report. The omissions are staggering.

If they are staggering, then let's discuss them here... Isn't that the point of the thread? Don't just say they are staggering and leave it lie. Let's discuss some of these omissions in a calm and rational way with verifiable source material.

 

[pixelsmith]

If they are staggering, then let's discuss them here... Isn't that the point of the thread? Don't just say they are staggering and leave it lie. Let's discuss some of these omissions in a calm and rational way with verifiable source material.

The 911 Commission Report IS the verifiable material. If you have not read it then we do not have much to discuss. I you have no time to read it I suggest this link to the 9/11 Omission Report: A Citizens Critique of the Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Acts Upon the United States
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[Xylo]

The 911 Commission Report IS the verifiable material. If you have not read it then we do not have much to discuss. I you have no time to read it I suggest this link to the 9/11 Omission Report: A Citizens Critique of the Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Acts Upon the United States
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Pixel, I have tried to discuss this subject with you in any number of ways. Either you can not discuss 9/11 or you are unwilling to discuss it. You have not shown me that you have done ANY critical thinking about this subject in any way. I wanted you to divorce yourself from the hype and actually think and share your own insight. You haven't done that, not in any form whatsoever. As much as you will deny it, you are part of the noise.

I like to examine evidence and form my own opinion and I welcome rational debate; I will even concede when I am wrong. On the other hand, the past two threads have been about you making your claims heard-and when challenged on one point you scurry quickly to another 3 or 4 or 5 unrelated points. That's not the sign of rational thinking.

For that reason, I am bowing out of this thread and refuse to discuss this further with you. You have proven to me that any rational discussion or discussion of independent verification of claims in these sources is impossible. Sadly, displays of this type are why the "truther" movement will not gain momentum.

See ya.

 

[pixelsmith]

Xylo, I am trying to help you with some background before discussing it with you. It is difficult to discuss any topic with someone if one of the people in the discussion do not know what they are talking about. Get some background from the Commission Report AND the "Omission" report and we might have a decent conversation. I have expressed my opinion in the past and would gladly do so again when you have some understanding of the events as told by the government and also by the public. Your eagerness to leave this conversation so quickly leaves me believing you are way over your head. Take time to read the reports and come back with any comments or questions you may have. I still have lots of questions myself.

 

[paraschtick]

I have read the "full" official report. The omissions are staggering.

All one needs to know is that they didn't mention WTC 7. The one that fell without being hit by any planes. And the one that had all those lovely government offices full of documents documenting the Enron scandal etc.. Oh and of course that multi-million dollar emergency room which in the end was never used ... cos the building fell down on its own accord (yes I know it had a few little fires inside but if it was built that shoddily shouldn't someone have been prosecuted for it???)

 

[pixelsmith]

All one needs to know is that they didn't mention WTC 7. The one that fell without being hit by any planes. And the one that had all those lovely government offices full of documents documenting the Enron scandal etc.. Oh and of course that multi-million dollar emergency room which in the end was never used ... cos the building fell down on its own accord (yes I know it had a few little fires inside but if it was built that shoddily shouldn't someone have been prosecuted for it???)

And, several years ago it was fortified as a Command Bunker in case of a terror attack.

 

[paraschtick]

And, several years ago it was fortified as a Command Bunker in case of a terror attack.

Yeah funny that ... wonder how much they insured it for???

 

[pixelsmith]

Yeah funny that ... wonder how much they insured it for???

The WTC complex was insured for 3.55 Billion and they tried to get double that because 2 planes hit.

 

[Kuzza]

And, several years ago it was fortified as a Command Bunker in case of a terror attack.

Yeah the 23rd floor of wtc 7 was Giuliani's headquarters for the office of emergency management.

Google the name Barry Jennings and watch some of his video's on youtube.

 

[pixelsmith]

Yeah the 23rd floor of wtc 7 was Giuliani's headquarters for the office of emergency management.

Google the name Barry Jennings and watch some of his video's on youtube.

and he left because he was told the building was to be blown up.

 

[ennethouse]

I'd strongly recommend you read 'Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001' by Steve Coll.

This is an excellent book detailing the rise of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Massoud (The Lion of Panshir) was murdered on September 10, 2001 by Al Qaeda agents. At the time he was the only thing standing in the way of total Taliban domination of Afghanistan.

 

[1stEarthBattalion]

9/11 was a tragic day. The whole world paused and saw the bravery of the Americans.

I salute you America.


Those that did this should be hunted to the ends of the earth and held to account there is no justifiable excuse for this sensless killing.

If there is any credence to any of the conspiracies then those named should have their citizenship revoked and left to rot in a dark hole somewhere.

We must never forget or let our guard down.

 

[paraschtick]

Vyzygoth ... he of Grassy Knoll fame has been putting up some of his old programmes every month for a while now. This month he includes some interviews with Victor Thorn, Lisa Guliani and Matthew Tartaglia covering the Pentagon "attack", and the mysterious Flight 93.

Some of the questions asked on these programmes still haven't been answered. And if you still don't think that some very odd things went on on 9/11 you should listen to these programmes.

You can find the programmes here:

http://www.thinkorbeeaten.com/theknoll/classic.html

Some of the stuff covered here is still very troubling even after nearly 10 years.

[ps some of the people mentioned on these programmes have since gone awol: Jim Fetzer, Tarpley, Tucker etc ... or maybe they were told to after a certain time??? 8)]

 

[Han]

Hi I remember that the BBC apparently reported that WTC 7 had fallen 20 mins before it actually did.
I have also heard an interview larry silverstein where he said he gave the go ahead to 'pull it' (WTC 7)

*I remember Talking to people about the attacks at the time, conspiracys were discussed, and my initial thoughts were that the motivations for these conspiracys was that the very thought of such a devistating attack by a few indivduals armed only with box cutters was too shocking for Americans to cope with. I felt that they would prefer the idea that it was an inside job as that way they still had some control of the situation.

I now believe that there are too many inconsistencies on both sides. The waters are so muddied that people just dont know what to think. It has become a question of faith in the government or not.

My own feelings are that somthing Evil happened either way, and it caused the death not only of thousands of innocent people in America but also countless numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan and many other places.

Also it should not be forgotten that before the invasion of Iraq Saddam hussain had nothing to do with al-Qaeda http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5328592.stm and was actually funded by the U.S in the "Iran Iraq war" 1980-1988. As was the "mujahideen" in the Russian war in Afghanistan.

The suspicious death's of David Kelly and Robin cook have convinced me that there is truly more going on than we are told.

The Gulf of Tonkin incident also spings to mind as does "Operation Northwoods" these where both staged attacks to draw support for war.

My thoughts and hopes go out to all those who have lost loved ones or have been injured or killed in this evil mess.
peace and love han.

*I must point out that I am British and therefore have had different exposure to this than if I was American, sorry if anyone is offended by what I have said.