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New Anti-global warming debate?

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New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

Hell no.. that thing is a waste of time and money and it's hardly in our best interests to be involved in it

As far as a referee of world affairs I agree but as a humanitarian organization it is probably worth keeping at least in some form. US funding for it needs to be reconsidered.
 
New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

Would that be in reference to the IPCC or would you eliminate the UN altogether? I guess that would be a whole new debate. Is the UN an organization that is worth having around anymore?

the UN does not have humans in their best interest. put them all in jail.
 
New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

As far as a referee of world affairs I agree but as a humanitarian organization it is probably worth keeping at least in some form. US funding for it needs to be reconsidered.
wow, you do not know much about the UN .
 
New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

Educate me then.
It is not really for me to educate you but very briefly the UN contracts out to groups such as The Club of Rome to prepare "Policy Guidance Documents" which they use in formulating their programs and policies. They contract out to the Club of Rome because many high ranking UN officials are also CoR members or have direct corporate ties to members. The same goes for the CFR and the Trilateral Commission.

Here is the disturbing part from a report titled The First Global Revolution published by the CoR in 1991, a statement in there speaks volumes:

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.... All these dangers are caused by human intervention... The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."
 
New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

It is not really for me to educate you but very briefly the UN contracts out to groups such as The Club of Rome to prepare "Policy Guidance Documents" which they use in formulating their programs and policies. They contract out to the Club of Rome because many high ranking UN officials are also CoR members or have direct corporate ties to members. The same goes for the CFR and the Trilateral Commission.

Here is the disturbing part from a report titled The First Global Revolution published by the CoR in 1991, a statement in there speaks volumes:

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.... All these dangers are caused by human intervention... The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."

Interesting. Do you have a credible source linking the UN to the Club of Rome? Where are you getting this information from?

How about this link?

The United States Club of Rome - Biographies
 
New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

what makes a source credible?

Faith, and the pre-disposition to believe what you have been told by superior minds. We know they are superior because they continually point out to us how smart they are compared to themselves. After all, they've been published in peer-reviewed journals. Peer review means someone else has checked on your orthodoxy to make sure you have not strayed from the flock and meet doctrinal standards. In the Catholic faith, for example, this is known as the 'imprimatur,' which means 'let it be printed' in Latin. Each book that meets this test gets a literal stamp of approval showing that it is free of doctrinal error.

Actually looking at the raw data is anathema to a believer. If the data shows clearly that the belief is wrong, there must be something wrong with the data. And clearly, those who point out that the data does not justify the conclusions are subjected to ad hominem attacks, likened to Nazis, holocaust deniers, etc. Senator Sanders, D-Vermont, recently said exactly that: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33371.html. There have also been calls to prosecute 'deniars.' This is like throwing the boy who called out, "The Emperor has no clothes." in jail for doing so.

Although we are in the midst of this one, history shows this is how a paradigm shift usually happens. When Alfred Wegener came up with his 'continental drift' theory in 1912 he was ridiculed and ostracized by his colleagues. Now we accept plate tectonics as a 'settled science.' And, of course, you have the theory of evolution, which has gained acceptance not so much because of scientific conversions, but because opponents of the theory have largely died off. It is, of course, still controversial.

There is also the political angle. Green has been called 'The new Red" because those sorts of causes also support the redistribution of wealth and more government control and, if you will, The NWO. Bernie Sanders is an avowed Socialist. You don't see any conservative warmists. And there's the money angle. The exact same guys who were at the root of the Iraqi 'food for oil' scandal and made millions are now trading carbon futures credits. It's also no secret that Al Gore is now worth over $100 million on the basis of his carbon investments. If you follow the money, it doesn't take you to Big Oil; it takes you to Big Carbon.

The five stages of grief are 1) Move along; there's nothing to see here. 2) You skeptics are DENIARS and scumbags and ought to be shot! 3) We need to do a do-over. 4) It's all falling apart. 5) Methane is a killer gas. Stage one is past completely. We still see stage 2 as in Sanders, et al. We just saw Stage 3 as the Met office and IPCC are saying they will change their ways. There has been a certain amount of hand wringing, which is Stage 4, and the first inklings of Stage 5 are beginning to show themselves as methane becomes the new carbon. We will have gone from "Exhaling is bad" to "Farting is bad."

The most amazing part of this discussion to me is that we, here, almost to a person, are proud of our skepticism and likely to see the latest flying saucer story, whether it is a delusional abductee or an Exopolitics scam artist, for what it is. We don't trust the governments to ever tell us the truth. But with Global Warming people adapt the persona and tactics of He Who Shall Not Be Named and proclaim the Truth of the wedding cake with all the vigor of the same guy. It is truly incongruous.

Is this really in the spirit of the scientific method?
"Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?"-Phil Jones, CRU, answering a request for his data.
 
New iPhone App features "Jonahspeak"

The most amazing part of this discussion to me is that we, here, almost to a person, are proud of our skepticism and likely to see the latest flying saucer story, whether it is a delusional abductee or an Exopolitics scam artist, for what it is. We don't trust the governments to ever tell us the truth. But with Global Warming people adapt the persona and tactics of He Who Shall Not Be Named and proclaim the Truth of the wedding cake with all the vigor of the same guy. It is truly incongrous.

That statement has such gravity. Why the hell is this true? It is, alas, but I just can't fathom why. Why people so critical otherwise of extraordinary claims are ready to jump on the AGW train with fervor. I think that many of them must look at AGW and just general pollution as synonymous -- it is most certainly not. I just can't understand why they can't see that the data was flawed -- that is now undeniable -- and that therefore conclusions made using that data must be discarded.

And, what is the big damned rush anyway? Climate change happens slowly. Like I have been saying, start recording reliable, open data. In a couple a hundred years, let them look for trends.

Even if we did have true data for let's say 50 years, cycles last tens of thousands of years. So, using 50 years of data to establish some kind of predictable trend would be like using about 90 seconds of data to establish trends for a 24 hour day. It just doesn't make sense. Without raw data and actual statistical analysis, everything else is conjecture. All of the ice core readings, tree ring crud -- all conjecture riddled with assumptions. You need REAL data.
 
This below is from EUReferendum by 'Richard.' Considering my last post, I thought this was a good example of what I was talking about. These guys are Brits and primarily kind of anti-EU in their outlook, i.e.: Climategate is not their primarty concern, but they do often write about it in the context of Europe.

The global warming began falling in Staten Island NY at 8 am their time (five hours behind the UK). By the time it has finished, perhaps by tomorrow morning, 12-14 inches may have accumulated, whipped up by strong winds, possibly gusting to hurricane force.

Not under any conceivable circumstances however, are the warmists prepared to concede that this – or the exceptionally hard winter throughout the northern hemisphere – in any way affects their beliefs.

Instead, we hear tell that climate scientists must do more to work out how exceptionally cold winters or a dip in world temperatures fit their theories of global warming if they are to persuade an increasingly sceptical public.

And there lies a brilliant illustration of exactly where the so-called science has gone completely off the rails. The mindset is focused on trying to make "inconvenient truths" fit the hypothesis, rather than evaluating the new conditions to see if they refute it.

This mindset is further betrayed by the egregious Kevin Trenberth, head of the Climate Analysis Section at the US National Center for Atmospheric Research. As to why global temperatures have not matched a peak set in 1998, or in 2005, his view is that there could be a failure to account for rapid warming in parts of the Arctic, where sea ice had melted, and where there were fewer monitoring stations.

In other words, Trenberth is unable to accept evidence of cooling. It must be an artefact – the result of an incomplete monitoring network.

There is no place to go with this kind of distorted logic. It comes from the same wellspring as Dr Judith Curry, who believes that the rise in scepticism stems from a failure of the "climate community" to communicate effectively.

This line, it seems, is very much the preferred alibi of failed doctrines. We heard exactly that from former Tory leader Michael Howard, after the Tory trouncing at the 2004 Euro elections. We are hearing very much the same from Cameron's Conservatives, to explain their lacklustre performance in the polls. And we hear it constantly from the European Union, as the "people of Europe" fail to love it.

Trenberth says, viz à viz the "non cooling" that we (the warmists) need better analysis of what's going on, so that "everyone, politicians and the general public, are informed about our current understanding of what is happening." Furthermore, he wants more statements in a much quicker fashion instead of waiting for another six years for the next IPCC report.

He, like so many others, in so many disparate fields, fails to understand that it is the quality of the message, not the volume and speed with which it is delivered, which eventually prevails.
 
The Attack on Climate-Change Science
by Bill McKibben

Why It’s the O.J. Moment of the Twenty-First Century

Twenty-one years ago, in 1989, I wrote what many have called the first book for a general audience on global warming. One of the more interesting reviews came from the Wall Street Journal. It was a mixed and judicious appraisal. “The subject,” the reviewer said, “is important, the notion is arresting, and Mr. McKibben argues convincingly.” And that was not an outlier: around the same time, the first president Bush announced that he planned to “fight the greenhouse effect with the White House effect.”

I doubt that’s what the Journal will say about my next book when it comes out in a few weeks, and I know that no GOP presidential contender would now dream of acknowledging that human beings are warming the planet. Sarah Palin is currently calling climate science “snake oil” and last week, the Utah legislature, in a move straight out of the King Canute playbook, passed a resolution condemning "a well organized and ongoing effort to manipulate global temperature data in order to produce a global warming outcome" on a nearly party-line vote. And here’s what’s odd. In 1989, I could fit just about every scientific study on climate change on top of my desk. The science was still thin. If my reporting made me think it was nonetheless convincing, many scientists were not yet prepared to agree. Now, you could fill the Superdome with climate-change research data. (You might not want to, though, since Hurricane Katrina demonstrated just how easy it was to rip holes in its roof.) Every major scientific body in the world has produced reports confirming the peril. All 15 of the warmest years on record have come in the two decades that have passed since 1989. In the meantime, the Earth’s major natural systems have all shown undeniable signs of rapid flux: melting Arctic and glacial ice, rapidly acidifying seawater, and so on.

Somehow, though, the onslaught against the science of climate change has never been stronger, and its effects, at least in the U.S., never more obvious: fewer Americans believe humans are warming the planet. At least partly as a result, Congress feels little need to consider global-warming legislation, no less pass it; and as a result of that failure, progress towards any kind of international agreement on climate change has essentially ground to a halt.

Climate-Change Denial as an O.J. Moment

The campaign against climate science has been enormously clever, and enormously effective. It’s worth trying to understand how they’ve done it. The best analogy, I think, is to the O.J. Simpson trial, an event that’s begun to recede into our collective memory. For those who were conscious in 1995, however, I imagine that just a few names will make it come back to life. Kato Kaelin, anyone? Lance Ito?

The Dream Team of lawyers assembled for Simpson’s defense had a problem: it was pretty clear their guy was guilty. Nicole Brown’s blood was all over his socks, and that was just the beginning. So Johnnie Cochran, Robert Shapiro, Alan Dershowitz, F. Lee Bailey, Robert Kardashian et al. decided to attack the process, arguing that it put Simpson’s guilt in doubt, and doubt, of course, was all they needed. Hence, those days of cross-examination about exactly how Dennis Fung had transported blood samples, or the fact that Los Angeles detective Mark Fuhrman had used racial slurs when talking to a screenwriter in 1986.

If anything, they were actually helped by the mountain of evidence. If a haystack gets big enough, the odds only increase that there will be a few needles hidden inside. Whatever they managed to find, they made the most of: in closing arguments, for instance, Cochran compared Fuhrman to Adolf Hitler and called him “a genocidal racist, a perjurer, America’s worst nightmare, and the personification of evil.” His only real audience was the jury, many of whom had good reason to dislike the Los Angeles Police Department, but the team managed to instill considerable doubt in lots of Americans tuning in on TV as well. That’s what happens when you spend week after week dwelling on the cracks in a case, no matter how small they may be.

Similarly, the immense pile of evidence now proving the science of global warming beyond any reasonable doubt is in some ways a great boon for those who would like, for a variety of reasons, to deny that the biggest problem we’ve ever faced is actually a problem at all. If you have a three-page report, it won’t be overwhelming and it’s unlikely to have many mistakes. Three thousand pages (the length of the latest report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change)? That pretty much guarantees you’ll get something wrong.

Indeed, the IPCC managed to include, among other glitches, a spurious date for the day when Himalayan glaciers would disappear. It won’t happen by 2035, as the report indicated -- a fact that has now been spread so widely across the Internet that it’s more or less obliterated another, undeniable piece of evidence: virtually every glacier on the planet is, in fact, busily melting. Similarly, if you managed to hack 3,000 emails from some scientist’s account, you might well find a few that showed them behaving badly, or at least talking about doing so. This is the so-called “Climate-gate” scandal from an English research center last fall. The English scientist Phil Jones has been placed on leave while his university decides if he should be punished for, among other things, not complying with Freedom of Information Act requests.

Call him the Mark Fuhrman of climate science; attack him often enough and maybe people will ignore the inconvenient mountain of evidence about climate change that the world’s scientific researchers have, in fact, compiled. Indeed, you can make almost exactly the same kind of fuss Johnnie Cochran made -- that’s what Congressman James Sensenbrenner (R-Wisc.) did, insisting the emails proved “scientific fascism,” and the climate skeptic Christopher Monckton called his opponents “Hitler youth.” Such language filters down. I’m now used to a daily diet of angry email, often with subject lines like the one that arrived yesterday: “Nazi Moron Scumbag.”

If you’re smart, you can also take advantage of lucky breaks that cross your path. Say a record set of snowstorms hit Washington D.C. It won’t even matter that such a record is just the kind of thing scientists have been predicting, given the extra water vapor global warming is adding to the atmosphere. It’s enough that it’s super-snowy in what everyone swore was a warming world. For a gifted political operative like, say, Marc Morano, who runs the Climate Depot website, the massive snowfalls this winter became the grist for a hundred posts poking fun at the very idea that anyone could still possibly believe in, you know, physics. Morano, who really is good, posted a link to a live webcam so readers could watch snow coming down; his former boss, Senator James Inhofe (R-Okla.), had his grandchildren build an igloo on the Capitol grounds, with a sign that read: "Al Gore’s New Home." These are the things that stick in people’s heads. If the winter glove won’t fit, you must acquit.

Why We Don’t Want to Believe in Climate Change

The climate deniers come with a few built-in advantages. Thanks to Exxon Mobil and others with a vested interest in debunking climate-change research, their “think tanks” have plenty of money, none of which gets wasted doing actual research to disprove climate change. It’s also useful for a movement to have its own TV network, Fox, though even more crucial to the denial movement are a few rightwing British tabloids which validate each new “scandal” and put it into media play.
That these guys are geniuses at working the media was proved this February when even the New York Times ran a front page story, “Skeptics Find Fault With U.N. Climate Panel,” which recycled most of the accusations of the past few months. What made it such a glorious testament to their success was the chief source cited by the Times: one Christopher Monckton, or Lord Monckton as he prefers to be called since he is some kind of British viscount. He is also identified as a “former advisor to Margaret Thatcher,” and he did write a piece for the American Spectator during her term as prime minister offering his prescriptions for “the only way to stop AIDS”:

"...screen the entire population regularly and… quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently.”

He speaks with equal gusto and good sense on matters climatic -- and now from above the fold in the paper of record.

Access to money and the media is not the only, or even the main reason, for the success of the climate deniers, though. They’re not actually spending all that much cash and they’ve got legions of eager volunteers doing much of the internet lobbying entirely for free. Their success can be credited significantly to the way they tap into the main currents of our politics of the moment with far more savvy and power than most environmentalists can muster. They’ve understood the popular rage at elites. They’ve grasped the widespread feelings of powerlessness in the U.S., and the widespread suspicion that we’re being ripped off by mysterious forces beyond our control.
Some of that is, of course, purely partisan. The columnist David Brooks, for instance, recently said:

“On the one hand, I totally accept the scientific authorities who say that global warming is real and it is manmade. On the other hand, I feel a frisson of pleasure when I come across evidence that contradicts the models… [in part] because I relish any fact that might make Al Gore look silly.” But the passion with which people attack Gore more often seems focused on the charge that he’s making large sums of money from green investments, and that the whole idea is little more than a scam designed to enrich everyone involved. This may be wrong -- Gore has testified under oath that he donates his green profits to the cause -- and scientists are not getting rich researching climate change (constant blog comments to the contrary), but it resonates with lots of people. I get many emails a day on the same theme: “The game is up. We’re on to you.”

When I say it resonates with lots of people, I mean lots of people. O.J.’s lawyers had to convince a jury made up mostly of black women from central city L.A., five of whom reported that they or their families had had “negative experiences” with the police. For them, it was a reasonably easy sell. When it comes to global warming, we’re pretty much all easy sells because we live the life that produces the carbon dioxide that’s at the heart of the crisis, and because we like that life. Very few people really want to change in any meaningful way, and given half a chance to think they don’t need to, they’ll take it. Especially when it sounds expensive, and especially when the economy stinks. Here’s David Harsanyi, a columnist for the Denver Post: “If they’re going to ask a nation -- a world -- to fundamentally alter its economy and ask citizens to alter their lifestyles, the believers’ credibility and evidence had better be unassailable.”

“Unassailable” sets the bar impossibly high when there is a dedicated corps of assailants out there hard at work. It is true that those of us who want to see some national and international effort to fight global warming need to keep making the case that the science is strong. That’s starting to happen. There are new websites and iPhone apps to provide clear and powerful answers to the skeptic trash-talking, and strangely enough, the denier effort may, in some ways, be making the case itself: if you go over the multi-volume IPCC report with a fine tooth comb and come up with three or four lousy citations, that’s pretty strong testimony to its essential accuracy.

Clearly, however, the antiseptic attempt to hide behind the magisterium of Science in an effort to avoid the rough-and-tumble of Politics is a mistake. It’s a mistake because science can be -- and, in fact, should be -- infinitely argued about. Science is, in fact, nothing but an ongoing argument, which is one reason why it sounds so disingenuous to most people when someone insists that the science is “settled.” That’s especially true of people who have been told at various times in their lives that some food is good for you, only to be told later that it might increase your likelihood of dying.

Why Data Isn’t Enough

I work at Middlebury College, a topflight liberal arts school, so I’m surrounded by people who argue constantly. It’s fun. One of the better skeptical takes on global warming that I know about is a weekly radio broadcast on our campus radio station run by a pair of undergraduates. They’re skeptics, but not cynics. Anyone who works seriously on the science soon realizes that we know more than enough to start taking action, but less than we someday will. There will always be controversy over exactly what we can now say with any certainty. That’s life on the cutting edge. I certainly don’t turn my back on the research—we’ve spent the last two years at 350.org building what Foreign Policy called “the largest ever coordinated global rally” around a previously obscure data point, the amount of atmospheric carbon that scientists say is safe, measured in parts per million.

But it’s a mistake to concentrate solely on the science for another reason. Science may be what we know about the world, but politics is how we feel about the world. And feelings count at least as much as knowledge. Especially when those feelings are valid. People are getting ripped off. They are powerless against large forces that are, at the moment, beyond their control. Anger is justified. So let’s figure out how to talk about it. Let’s look at Exxon Mobil, which each of the last three years has made more money than any company in the history of money. Its business model involves using the atmosphere as an open sewer for the carbon dioxide that is the inevitable byproduct of the fossil fuel it sells. And yet we let it do this for free. It doesn't pay a red cent for potentially wrecking our world.

Right now, there’s a bill in the Congress -- cap-and-dividend, it’s called -- that would charge Exxon for that right, and send a check to everyone in the country every month. Yes, the company would pass on the charge at the pump, but 80% of Americans (all except the top-income energy hogs) would still make money off the deal. That represents good science, because it starts to send a signal that we should park that SUV, but it’s also good politics.

By the way, if you think there’s a scam underway, you’re right -- and to figure it out just track the money going in campaign contributions to the politicians doing the bidding of the energy companies. Inhofe, the igloo guy? Over a million dollars from energy and utility companies and executives in the last two election cycles. You think Al Gore is going to make money from green energy? Check out what you get for running an oil company. Worried that someone is going to wreck your future? You’re right about that, too. Right now, China is gearing up to dominate the green energy market. They’re making the investments that mean future windmills and solar panels, even ones installed in this country, will be likely to arrive from factories in Chenzhou, not Chicago. Coal companies have already eliminated most good mining jobs, simply by automating them in the search for ever higher profits. Now, they’re using their political power to make sure that miner’s kids won’t get to build wind turbines instead. Everyone should be mighty pissed -- just not at climate-change scientists.

But keep in mind as well that fear and rage aren’t the only feelings around. They’re powerful feelings, to be sure, but they’re not all we feel. And they are not us at our best.

Continued next post
 
McKibben continued...

There’s also love, a force that has often helped motivate large-scale change, and one that cynics in particular have little power to rouse. Love for poor people around the world, for instance. If you think it’s not real, you haven’t been to church recently, especially evangelical churches across the country. People who take the Gospel seriously also take seriously indeed the injunction to feed the hungry and shelter the homeless.

It’s becoming patently obvious that nothing challenges that goal quite like the rising seas and spreading deserts of climate change. That’s why religious environmentalism is one of the most effective emerging parts of the global warming movement; that’s why we were able to get thousands of churches ringing their bells 350 times last October to signify what scientists say is the safe level of CO2 in the atmosphere; that’s why Bartholomew, patriarch of the Orthodox church and leader of 400 million eastern Christians, said, “Global warming is a sin and 350 is an act of redemption.”

There’s also the deep love for creation, for the natural world. We were born to be in contact with the world around us and, though much of modernity is designed to insulate us from nature, it doesn’t really work. Any time the natural world breaks through -- a sunset, an hour in the garden -- we’re suddenly vulnerable to the realization that we care about things beyond ourselves. That’s why, for instance, the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts are so important: get someone out in the woods at an impressionable age and you’ve accomplished something powerful. That’s why art and music need to be part of the story, right alongside bar graphs and pie charts. When we campaign about climate change at 350.org, we make sure to do it in the most beautiful places we know, the iconic spots that conjure up people’s connection to their history, their identity, their hope.

The great irony is that the climate skeptics have prospered by insisting that their opponents are radicals. In fact, those who work to prevent global warming are deeply conservative, insistent that we should leave the world in something like the shape we found it. We want our kids to know the world we knew. Here’s the definition of radical: doubling the carbon content of the atmosphere because you’re not completely convinced it will be a disaster. We want to remove every possible doubt before we convict in the courtroom, because an innocent man in a jail cell is a scandal, but outside of it we should act more conservatively.

In the long run, the climate deniers will lose; they’ll be a footnote to history. (Hey, even O.J. is finally in jail.) But they’ll lose because we’ll all lose, because by delaying action, they will have helped prevent us from taking the steps we need to take while there’s still time. If we’re going to make real change while it matters, it’s important to remember that their skepticism isn’t the root of the problem. It simply plays on our deep-seated resistance to change. That’s what gives the climate cynics ground to operate. That’s what we need to overcome, and at bottom that’s a battle as much about courage and hope as about data.

Bill McKibben is the author of a dozen books, including the forthcoming Eaarth: Making a Life on a Tough New Planet (Times Books, April 2010). He’s a scholar in residence at Middlebury College in Vermont. Catch the latest TomCast, TomDispatch.com’s audio interview with Bill McKibben on what to make of the climate-science scandals.

Copyright 2010 Bill McKibben

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175211/tomgram:_bill_mckibben,_climate_change's_o.j._simpson_moment/
 
well that was a big waste of time...
i do not recall any of us saying climate change is not happening. personally, i welcome climate change. that is what the climate is supposed to do. i would be very concerned if it didn't.
 
For those of you who don't have the patience to wade through somethiong like (the very good) Hockey Stick Illusion, here's a ten page PDF by Steve McIntyre, the guy who dissected the hockey stick, which he wrote in conjunction with the probe of CRU that is now taking place in Britain. Thjis summarizes the issue pretty well and includes the more damaging graphs showing how the data has been manipulated:
 

Attachments

New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

what makes a source credible?

Good question. These days it is getting harder and harder to tell. There is alot opinion and commentary out there that is passed off as fact on both sides of this issue. If a source has taken financial backing from a corporate interest with a stake in the issue it is hard to find them credible. Sound bites and statements taken out of context are another problem for both sides. More than ever it seems we have to check the background of who is giving out information.
 
New Anti-global warming debate? Part 1

Good question. These days it is getting harder and harder to tell. There is alot opinion and commentary out there that is passed off as fact on both sides of this issue. If a source has taken financial backing from a corporate interest with a stake in the issue it is hard to find them credible. Sound bites and statements taken out of context are another problem for both sides. More than ever it seems we have to check the background of who is giving out information.

If it sniffs of a think tank of any description I'd be pretty damn weary of it.
 
For those of you who don't have the patience to wade through somethiong like (the very good) Hockey Stick Illusion, here's a ten page PDF by Steve McIntyre, the guy who dissected the hockey stick, which he wrote in conjunction with the probe of CRU that is now taking place in Britain. Thjis summarizes the issue pretty well and includes the more damaging graphs showing how the data has been manipulated:

Here is some background on McIntyre.

Macleans.ca
 
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