New theory on 9/11 "Controlled Demolition"

[skunkape]

Jesus knew he was going to get nailed. Wouldn't the fact that he didn't get the hell out of Dodge constitute suicide? Oh, yeah...I forgot he's got magic zombie powers.

 

[pixelsmith]

nailed... thats funny.

 

[Gil Bavel]

if you were to reverse engineer this thing, if you were to gather and train that many suicide bombers where would you find them ?

you would not get that many atheist SB's, nor could you recruit them from christian ranks, because suicide is a sin in that tradition, no reward, no heaven.

on the other hand, sourcing the personel for this operation from a cult that does have suicide listed as a valid expresion of the faith would be relatively easier.

recent history is replete with examples of this type of attack.
if the payoff is in the afterlife, then the culprit is obvious
these non sentient simians send their own children to be suicide bombers.......

there is only one source for that many "volunteers" , i dont see that you could get them and so many of them at that from any where else

Actually, suicide is also a sin in the Jewish tradition--I remember from somewhere that you are judged often by your last act, and so suicide is considered murder--and inasmuch as the Muslim tradition grew out of the Jewish tradition, I believe it's also a sin to them.

I think that the version of "Islamofascism" that's we're seeing since 9/11 is a twisted, almost absurdist version of Islam... which means "Submission" in Arabic (not peace, as many think).

*side note: I find it very interesting that the Firefox spellchecker tried to convert "Islamofascism" into "Kurdistan".

 

[AnnetteMarie]

I think the suicide term is incorrect. Do religious zealots consider giving their lives for the greater good a suicide or an honourable sacrifice?
We have many accounts of soldiers and parents giving their lives to save their country or their families, and do not in any way, shape, or form, consider that a suicide. It is a noble sacrifice, the ultimate gift to your loved ones/country.

Perhaps the "suicide" bombers who make that choice feel the same. That would not be suicide, to them, or the Koran, non?

 

[pixelsmith]

at least 7 of the alleged hijackers are still alive. must have been a divine intervention.

Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami Alive, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi Alive (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).

 

[skunkape]

at least 7 of the alleged hijackers are still alive. must have been a divine intervention.

Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami Alive, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi Alive (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).

They must be made of the same indestructable paper their passports were.

 

[pixelsmith]

these planes were nearly empty.

A lingering question is why the passenger loads on the four planes hijacked in U.S. skies are being described by industry officials as "very, very low.'' ... Through July, airlines in the United States reported flights on average were 71 percent capacity this year. [CNN 9/20/2001]

The total passenger seating capacity of the four 9/11 airliners was 762 people. There are 229 passengers and crew members on the four death lists issued by CNN (although this figure varies). The total number of passengers on the four airliners was only 26 percent of capacity.

 

[Anubis]

if you were to reverse engineer this thing, if you were to gather and train that many suicide bombers where would you find them ?

So in your opinion, the hundreds of suicide bombers that have plagued places like Isreal, Iraq and various other parts of the Middle East are nothing more than a figment of American imagination?

 

[Anubis]

Something is strange about the events surrounding 911. I am not sure what really happened, but the government and media are not telling the whole story. Some of these conspiracy theories actually present fairly strong circumstantial evidence. I have not seen any written arguments which successfully refute them.

Circumstantial evidence is not submissible in a court of law for very good reasons. For a goof, I picked one statement in this debate about the low passenger capacities of the various hijacked flights on that day, and did a quick search on Google in regards to the four hijacked flights, their maximum passenger capacities, their actual passenger capacities on 9/11 and the average percentage of passengers in the three previous months prior to the attacks.

In brief:

Flight 11
Cap. 158 - Carried 81
Average load months prior: 39%
Flight 11 carried 51% of its maximum capacity, which is more than the prior three month average.

Flight 175
Cap. 168 - Carried 56
Average load months prior: 49%
Flight 175 carried 33% of its maximum capacity, which is less than the prior three month average.

Flight 77
Cap. 176 - Carried 58
Average load months prior: 33%
Flight 77 carried 33% of its maximum capacity, which is the same as the prior three month average.

Flight 93
Cap. 182 - Carried 37
Average load months prior: 52%
Flight 93 carried 20% of its maximum capacity, which is less than the prior three month average.

This data shows that there was only one flight (Flight 93) that carried a much smaller amount of passengers on 9/11 at 32% less vs. the previous three month average of 52%. The other three flights were 12% higher (Flight 11), 16% less (Flight 175) and exactly the same at 33% (Flight 77). This directly contradicts statements that the flights had drastically less passengers in them than average, which the conspiracy nutters use to fuel arguements of alleged government/FAA involvement.

Seriously, it took 10 minutes of my time with an internet search engine to refute more incorrect statements passed as facts in this thread. I suggest you do the same with the rest of this silly theory and judge for yourself what is being passed off as BS. I, personally, have no desire to waste any more of my life debating it.

 

[mike]

So in your opinion, the hundreds of suicide bombers that have plagued places like Isreal, Iraq and various other parts of the Middle East are nothing more than a figment of American imagination?

um ? no, these are the very ppl i refer too.

the fact is we know someone hijacked the planes, we have phone calls from passengers who described the takeover of the cockpit area. these people died.

if as the conspiracy goes this is a false flag, how were these terrorists paid ?, they died.

how were the guys at the yoke who steered the planes into the targets paid ?

the payoff has to come in the afterlife, and to me the obvious answer is islamic extremists, not govt funded false flag.

how on earth would the govt motivate that many ppl to die ?

if you were the govt , and you wanted to do this false flag thingy, how do you go about finding the ppl to fly headfirst to their death ?

how would you motivate and compensate them

no earthy agent/govt can.........

the pattern is well established in places like palestine, where mothers encourage sons to suicide bomb....we had the same insane stuff with the Bali Bombing, which while not on the same scale as 911 was yet another example of the same

same pattern,same motivation ,same reward

nothing else fits,

someone wanting to pull a stunt like this "inhouse" as a false flag simply does not possses the "currency" needed to purchase a "service"(for want of a better word) such as this

 

[Anubis]

Perhaps I misuderstood your point somewhat.

I thought you were questioning where suicide bombers came from as a means of discrediting that Arab terrorists were behind 9/11. Your explainations indicates that you argree with this. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[rodeo97]

Circumstantial evidence is not submissible in a court .

I don't believe I am in a court of law. If we were in a court of law, we could not proceed with the case because we are missing crucial pieces of evidence which are being withheld by the government. That means they are trying to cover up something.

 

[Anubis]

By your logic, the Bush government can easily explian their failure to find WMDs in Iraq as being because the WMDs were moved to Syria. Since the WMDs are missing, the Iraqi governement is covering up their existance, and did so by transporting them to the country of their closest ally.

Of course I fully expect you to counter that there were no WMDs to begin with, which is exactly how I feel about far-fetched 9/11 conspiracy theories. Convicting someone on circumstantial evidence alone amounts to nothing more than a witchhunt. The lack of hard evidence is in no way an indication of guilt or a cover-up, for that matter. Many times, it just means that the theory you are trying to prove is incorrect.

 

[rodeo97]

What does this have to do with Weapons of mass distraction, I er mean destruction? Heck yeah Iraq had biological weapons. They used them in the war with Iran and we helped them. They probably did move them to Syria. Why do you think I am somehow trying to defend Iraq? My point is that there are good arguments that bring into question the official story behind the events surrounding September 11. It could be simple incompetence that the government is trying to hide, or perhaps it could be that the whole affair has links to Saudi Arabia one of our allies. There is a lack of hard evidence which would incriminate the Taliban government in the whole affair, but that has not stopped us from invading Afghanistan. I have no love for any of these fundamentalist Muslim states, but I think that they may be scapegoats for a more complex and dynamic situation. It is the same simple minded thinking which puts all of the blame for the holocaust on a few German officers, as if the people of Germany could not have stepped in to stop that horrible massacre. I believe that not taking any responsibility for the deaths of thousands of innocent human lives at home and abroad is a mental washing of hands.

There is hard evidence which has been destroyed, withheld, or tampered with such as the black boxes from the planes or the video surveillance tapes from the pentagon.

 

[mike]

Perhaps I misuderstood your point somewhat.

I thought you were questioning where suicide bombers came from as a means of discrediting that Arab terrorists were behind 9/11. Your explainations indicates that you argree with this. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

no worries mate, i think we are on the same page here.

regards the 7 hijackers still alive..........

some of these bums have family , and while they are happy to rob you of yours, they want to protect their own.

its known some of them "stole" the identitys of their fellow nationals , people who turn up "alive" later

as someone looking from 6 degrees of seperation, i find it most perplexing that Mr Bush Snr got criticised for not steaming into bagdad in the first gulf war, for letting the perp go, and then Mr Bush Jnr gets criticised for doing just that..... doomed if you do doomed if you dont.

peronally im grateful to Mr Bush for putting saddam where he too long deserved to be, dangling on the end of a rope. i personally am happy the world is rid of the tinpot fool.

and im doubly grateful to all the men and women who gave their time and lives to see the future was one where saddam and his sons, finally did something useful for their country of birth, by fertilising the soil..........

the world no more needed an excuse for that than it did for putting hitler and his cronies in the same place

 

[Anubis]

Rodeo97:

You are claiming the lack of evidence to prove your 9/11 conspiracy theory is due to a govenment coverup, and using circumstantial evidence as a condemnation of their guilt. I could have easily compared this to the methods the Spanish Inquisition used as well. Woman X is guilty of trafficking with the devil. There is no hard evidence because the devil is usig his power to protect her. However, we have a witness who allegedly saw her talking to her cat and wandering in the woods at midnight. Burn her! Do you not see the similarities here?

This was the reason I stated your 'evidence' would never hold up in a court of law. If the government convicted you of a crime using circumstantial evidence and conjecture, you would win on appeal and likely sue them stating your civil rights had been violated.

As for the Taliban, it seems you lack some fundamental understanding as to the reasons why Afghanistan was invaded in the first place. The Taliban were never accused of being behind the attacks on 9/11. They did however, admit that Osama Bin Laden was in Afghanistan following the attacks and refused American requests to extradite him for trial. When the Afghanistan government refused (likely because Bin Laden was instrumental in helping the mujahideen defeat the Soviets which eventually brought the Taliban to power in 1996), the Americans threatened to use military force to get him. The Taliban than challenged the U.S. to get him themselves, and the war in Afghanistan began.

The Taliban had little to do with the actual 9/11 attacks. However they did allow Bin Laden to train and run his operations from within their country. The actual attackers were mostly disenchanched Saudi Arabians who blame 'American Imperialism' for what they view as the corruption of their king and the generally poor conditions most people in the country live under.

As for this silly theory about controlled demolitions, would someone please explain why you would need to use thousands of pounds of C4 or Thermite to level the Twin Towers after you just flew a couple of 767 commercial airliners into them? I mean seriously, isn't that a little overkill when the immense damage caused by the planes' impact would have the exact same psychological effect?

 

[digigeek]

Sigh.

If you want to make the argument that Bush and his cabal knew about the impending attack, and did nothing to stop it, I'm there with you.

If you want to claim that the towers were brought down via a planned controlled demolition, that holograms were what hit the towers, that the people in those planes who died are actually alive somewhere in the midwest, well kids, you're out of your minds. Seriously. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you, with water and everything.

dB

Wait. That is lumping 3 claims into one result. Not fair. My Father was an architect and a civil engineer, I grew up around demolitions and large-scale building projects. I've seen several controlled demos of tall-ish buildings and I know what I saw on the TV in NYC that day was controlled. The pancake theory is utter non-sense and non-science. As for holograms and people being shanghai'ed to some other location, that is just plain silly as well. Those two things do not belong in the same pile with the demolition claim. When you lump those two into one pile you look just like the worst of the UFO skeptics I've heard; they do the same thing. We all know that. They pile 10 things, 4 of them irrefutable non-sense into one lump and pronounce the whole pile as complete bunk based on the falsity of the 4. Good tactic to avoid like the plague lest you look like one of that lot.

 

[David Biedny]

Digigeek,

I stopped posting on this thread, so if you want to take me to task, have fun. I lost friends that day, so I'm not interested in getting into arguments over what did and didn't happen, OK? As I said, I agree that the Bush cabal knew what was going down, and that we'll never know what really happened that day. Beyond that, I don't have a clue. I'm a clueless idiot, you happy now? Good. Now please leave me out of this conversation.

dB

 

[cottonzway]

Digigeek,

I stopped posting on this thread, so if you want to take me to task, have fun. I lost friends that day, so I'm not interested in getting into arguments over what did and didn't happen, OK? As I said, I agree that the Bush cabal knew what was going down, and that we'll never know what really happened that day. Beyond that, I don't have a clue. I'm a clueless idiot, you happy now? Good. Now please leave me out of this conversation.

dB

You may be "out" of the thread, but I would suggesting reading and considering my reply that included something to you for consideration. I am not looking to envoke you in a public manner, but to speak you as a person. I am not looking for a public reply/debate. Getting "involved" in "9/11 truth" will do you nothing or anything like that, but if you are in NYC on a Saturday the HEROS who saved people that day will be at the same place saying otherwise. It is something to consider, and it does not involve politics at all.

 

[pixelsmith]

i say we arm the troops with box cutters and matches. no one could touch us with those types of weapons.