Nick Redfern, Close Encounters of the Fatal Kind — 7/6/14

[owlman]

That's what SHE said

 

[Burnt State]

If there’s a sign that said “Warning – No Trespassing” we would do crazy things like stand on the other side of them while the other took the picture. That’s just one example.

Now, see I would not call that sketchy at all, but just the kinda thing that dads do. I remember my own father making me pose right beside the sign that read "WARNING!! Ratlesnakes Nesting!" I was always getting death defying pics taken if me like that one. Seemed to be the thing to do.

I know that Nick Redfern said that he was done with stories about UFO’s and Government conspiracies – but I would like to know if he’s ever going to do about mental health problems people have after working in “The Industry.” Are people who work for “The Industry” already crazy and those are the ones they recruit or does it happen to them over time?

'Crazy' is a strong word. But there is definitely a specific anecdotal history of people destabilizing due to their involvement, pursuit, witnessing and research into paranormal & UFO activity. Whether they aspire to cult status (Greer, Streiber) or are too obsessed and fed false info (Bennewitz, LMH) or simply saw something that changed them forever (Spaur, the Contactees) this field of inquiry is dangerous stuff to be certain. It messes with your reality.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Going off the topic a touch, the demensional encounters if there is more than standard amount the possiblity of cloak creatures wonder if the so called Mothman /robotic had the so called technlogy ?

 

[Fedora Chronicles]

Hey, Nick - just got done "reading" the Audible version of your book "Pyramids And The Pentagon" and I gotta say that I'm now your biggest fan in New Hampshire - if not all of North East Unites States.

I'm not trying to disrespect the memory of Phil Coppans - but I enjoyed this book more than "The Lost Civilization Enigma" I can't wait to write my review and send it off to you.

 

[Nick Redfern]

Hey, Nick - just got done "reading" the Audible version of your book "Pyramids And The Pentagon" and I gotta say that I'm now your biggest fan in New Hampshire - if not all of North East Unites States.

I'm not trying to disrespect the memory of Phil Coppans - but I enjoyed this book more than "The Lost Civilization Enigma" I can't wait to write my review and send it off to you.

Many thanks! I actually haven't heard the audio-version myself!

 

[Fedora Chronicles]

One observation that I hope you'll explore in a future book or you've already touched upon in a book you already wrote... something happens to people when they have been exposed to paranormal events - almost like a re-writing of the mind. I've had a series of events and I totally believe made me the person I am today. I also think that some of the things my dad was exposed to rewired his mind too far in one direction and explains some of the troubles he had with society and getting along with others.

I also think it's genetic - both my sons are interested in different aspects of the paranormal, my eldest is into cryptozoology while my youngest is into futuristic and alien space craft. My wife and I haven't actively trying to indoctrinate them... with the exception of watching documentaries.

 

[Fedora Chronicles]

By the way, Nick... I want to populate my review of your book with photos... do you have a media press kit with images I can use? Give me everything! I'll include a slide show!

 

[storge]

Nick, you need a refresher course on Maury Island. Of course, if you're not doing UFO conspiracy anymore, it doesn't matter.

I heard you repeat numerous mistakes re: Maury on Paracast and C2C.

Perhaps the most glaring was that the slag was on an airplane headed for Wright Field. I see how you might have mixed this up. The two military intelligence officers misrepresented themselves to Arnold, they were in fact counter-intelligence, and lied, according to Arnold, about where they were based. The story they gave out was they had to rush back to Hamilton Field to be there in time for Air Force Day. Arnold says they were actually based back east somewhere. Then Kenn Thomas chimes in with his speculation, repeat, speculation, that the two were actually under the command of Twining at Wright. Thomas does find some evidence of this in some later documentation, but it seemed to me he was speculating here.

btw Grace Moore the singer and the crowned prince of Norway were both on the plane that crashed and burned at Amsterdam in 1947. No real explanation for the crash. Just another in a series of strange things that happened in 1947.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Maury Island was fake. A conspiracy or not, the whole thing was bogus. I think we need to file it away and concentrate on more recent events, whatever they may be.

 

[Bonzo4880]

I'm listening to this episode right now. I'm not too far into it yet but i'm looking forward to hearing what Nick has to say.

 

[Burnt State]

Maury Island was fake. A conspiracy or not, the whole thing was bogus. I think we need to file it away and concentrate on more recent events, whatever they may be.

While I agree with most of what you say, what's fascinating is its insight into the early machinations of how the UFO phenomenon would be used for cloak and dagger work by three letter agencies. It might even help us to better understand just to what extent and in what capacity the role of the witness, the investigator and big brother will play in such national head games.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

While I agree with most of what you say, what's fascinating is its insight into the early machinations of how the UFO phenomenon would be used for cloak and dagger work by three letter agencies. It might even help us to better understand just to what extent and in what capacity the role of the witness, the investigator and big brother will play in such national head games.

In reading Nick's book I came to a few conclusions, one of which is that a lot of the cloak and dagger methods used by those 3-letter agencies in the past are no longer being used. I think that the 1950s and 1960s saw a lot more intimidation, bullying, and threats used by the government, but that they've modified their policies and procedures long since then. Though I believe Maury Island was hoaxed....for whatever reason...I believe there was some suspicious activity by government officials. Why doesn't the government operate like that any more? Well the answer to that could be a whole other post, but suffice it to say that I believe it was realized that bumping people off or driving them insane (psy-ops) brought more attention and question to the situation and people involved when what they really want to do; ... draw less attention to the situation. Operating under the methods suspected by many others and spelled out in Nick's book is counter productive to the ultimate goal; concealment and subterfuge.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Jeff, you'll also want to read James Carrion's "The Rosetta Deception" for further insights into how intelligence operated during and right after World War II. He clearly believes that a lot more happened in those days, involving UFOs to some degree, that can be traced to machinations by government operatives. And don't forget the presence of the first head of the CIA, whom Carrion said was deeply involved in the Rosetta affair, on NICAP's board of governors. In this case, it's hard to believe in coincidences.

 

[Constance]

While I agree with most of what you say, what's fascinating is its insight into the early machinations of how the UFO phenomenon would be used for cloak and dagger work by three letter agencies. It might even help us to better understand just to what extent and in what capacity the role of the witness, the investigator and big brother will play in such national head games.

In my view that insight is a partial one that rests on partial data, as do the complement of other cases on which the hypothesis you seem to favor rests -- that ufo history to date can be read comprehensively as the history of governmental mind control efforts toward generating belief in an illusionary threat from off-planet. I'm still looking for a rational answer to the question 'why' such an international effort would be perpetuated over 65 years, backed up by an evidence-based account of how the illusion was pulled off, practically and financially for starters. In short I'm looking for the immense analysis of the ufo events of the last 65 years as they can be accounted for by this hypothesis. I can see why this is an attractive hypothesis for skeptics possessing varying degrees of knowledge about modern ufo history. I haven't yet begun to see sufficient explication of its adequacy to account for the whole available history. That explication will have to assume encyclopedic dimensions and take many people many years to write. Let me know when it's published.

 

[Burnt State]

In my view that insight is a partial one that rests on partial data, as do the complement of other cases on which the hypothesis you seem to favor rests -- that ufo history to date can be read comprehensively as the history of governmental mind control efforts toward generating belief in an illusionary threat from off-planet. I'm still looking for a rational answer to the question 'why' such an international effort would be perpetuated over 65 years, backed up by an evidence-based account of how the illusion was pulled off, practically and financially for starters. In short I'm looking for the immense analysis of the ufo events of the last 65 years as they can be accounted for by this hypothesis. I can see why this is an attractive hypothesis for skeptics possessing varying degrees of knowledge about modern ufo history. I haven't yet begun to see sufficient explication of its adequacy to account for the whole available history. That explication will have to assume encyclopedic dimensions and take many people many years to write. Let me know when it's published.

You're overstating the case for my supposed belief in the UFO phenomena as being solely a controlled event manufactured by 3 letter agencies. I think it's a much more nuanced phenomena that has its roots in inexplicable, witnessed events, some recorded on multiple radars, sometimes leaving trace evidence or scaring the heck out of school children.

Some witnessed experiences are absolutely phenomenal and may have their roots in a culturally programmed psyche that may interpret certain human sensory events as aliens, faeries or leprechauns. And of course there is also the incredible role that advanced experimental aircraft have played in the history of ufological inquiry as obviously much of what's odd in the sky and appears to be just ahead of where contemporary tech may very well just be what it us, next generation, well guarded, human technology.

There are also these incredibly compelling stories like Pascagoula & Falcon Lake & RB-47 that simply defy simple, skeptical solutions. But I also know that the UFO phenomena is also a deeply rooted meme that has been perpetuated by other more psychologically disturbing themes such as UFO cults, contactees, gurus, disinformation agents & abductees.

It's quite a stone soup, brewed over time, many tentacled, and diverse in its ingredient components. It's just simply not one thing but has been used nefariously for various national and socially manipulative purposes across history. It is also something slippery, a part of us, something to make us think and IMHO something that is here to change us.

I'm also open to skycritters.

 

[Burnt State]

Gene also covers a lot of my own questioning sentiments as to just how big a role gov't deception has played in the history of ufology. Your Paracast Newsletter — July 20, 2014 | The Paracast Community Forums
He also mentions the curious role of the hoaxer in all of this which may not always be a gov't official. Other "Guardians" of the UFO secret all collaborate together with all of the above to build the sometimes unmeasurable event that is the UFO phenomenon. Like ghost rockets, they remain highly elusive.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Other "Guardians" of the UFO secret all collaborate together with all of the above to build the sometimes unmeasurable event that is the UFO phenomenon. Like ghost rockets, they remain highly elusive.

BIGELOW is a Guardian in the mix! Big money too!

The Strings Attached are a Silencer Weapon called NDA!

His roots go back to starting-up Art Bell.

He is a booster of The Secret Knowledge, he covets The Keys, & dreams of his Skinwalker ranch.

A Highly Controversial Figure in Ufology on a Mission and a Quest

 

[owlman]

Anything pre 1947 has a heck of a lot more reliability for me. This was before we had any kind of supersonic stealth plane, or other high tech flying secret weapon. Anything performing ridiculously fast speeds and impossible maneuvers back then has to be off planet, or at least non human in origin.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

According to James Carrion, those Ghost Rockets were mostly disinformation and reports of conventional craft deliberately designed to destroy themselves to advance the myth.

 

[Burnt State]

According to James Carrion, those Ghost Rockets were mostly disinformation and reports of conventional craft deliberately designed to destroy themselves to advance the myth.

And if it wasn't for such fascinating witness stories and those unique radar cases there is in fact a very strong case to be made that most of ufoology is based on Fool's Gold: manufactured & fabricated events and ideas that worm their way into our psyche, the common mass culture, our oral traditions and now our digital ones. Never before has it been so easy to propagate myths.

I'm greatly looking forward to listening to the ghost rocket discussion which appears to be a multi-faceted phenomenon all on its own. Like Skinwalker, Bentwaters & Roswell, these cases over time start to diversify themselves, with new mythologies being speculated on and developed as more than just possibilities but new history, usually involving the damn Nazis all the time. Because some boogeyman we just can't kill, and spectre of WWII has also played a strong hand in outling further facets of the UFO conundrum.