November 4, 2012 — Margie Kay

[Polterwurst]

What's this gag about the bread? Was it in the show - if so I musta missed it?
Anyone care to let me in on the joke? Pretty pleeeeeze?

Yes, it was in the show, but I'm afraid I forgot the whole story. I think there was some guy who has like regular contact with the aliens (who really are from the 5th dimension - or was it the 15th?) and always like it when he brings them some bread. They just luvs it. More than pancakes, you might ask? I don't know. Psychedelic stuff. Not the reptilian types, though. These are baaaad and don't like our bread.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Almost looks like the 'Communion' alien )

Jason Voorhees? oh and by the way, the sandwich does look really really good!

 

[Artyom]

Not the reptilian types, though. These are baaaad and don't like our bread.

I bet reptilians prefer crickets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk in a bus.

 

[starise]

My favorite quote of the show was when Chris said several times " I hate when that happens". I think he seen it coming.....Margie Kay to paraphrase- " My video camera stopped working" My Camera battery went dead, something erased my pics..." I hate when that happens" LOL.

I wonder Chris if you can see this coming from a distance by now. Probably all of that ufo investigation gives you some kind of a sixth sense about this stuff.

The next this that impressed me was that I think MUFON will let ANYONE in even as director.This show was like getting the everything sampler dish at my local resteraunt. I would really like to look at her nose both before and after the show...ok I am a little skeptical.

 

[Paleontologist]

No wonder ufology is slowly dying. The earnest Margie Kay stories have zero useful corroboration or evidence. Do we really believe that digital cameras can have their images erased or dates scrambled by unknown entities? Isn't this too convenient when it comes to explaining why there is no real photographic evidence in an age where everyone has an instant camera? A field built on anecdotes is fading away after nearly seven decades of such flimsy support. Meanwhile the hundreds of professional sky-watchers (astronomers and other scientists) have somehow over the years simply missed these wondrous alien phenomena. Ufology remains interesting only for its social and psychological implications.

 

[Randall]

No wonder ufology is slowly dying. The earnest Margie Kay stories have zero useful corroboration or evidence. Do we really believe that digital cameras can have their images erased or dates scrambled by unknown entities? Isn't this too convenient when it comes to explaining why there is no real photographic evidence in an age where everyone has an instant camera? A field built on anecdotes is fading away after nearly seven decades of such flimsy support. Meanwhile the hundreds of professional sky-watchers (astronomers and other scientists) have somehow over the years simply missed these wondrous alien phenomena. Ufology remains interesting only for its social and psychological implications.

Experience has taught me to avoid using absolutes when expressing opinions. For example I don't think there is "zero" evidence in Margie Kay's statements. I think that when she said that a telescope tracking system identified Arcturus at the location of one of the objects, that the evidence strongly suggests that the object probably was Arcturus. From a ufology perspective, that is useful information. Do I think digital cameras can become corrupted or have their batteries die without an obvious explanation? Yes. I used to sell them, I've owned several inexpensive models, and I've recovered data from corrupted chips. I've also seen the best Sony batteries suddenly die. Parts fail. It happens. But are such failures always due to some paranormal or alien force? No. Of course not. But at the same time there have been many reports of odd malfunctions associated with UFO activity. What kind of technology can do that? We know that an EMP pulse can knock out all kinds of electronic equipment, so it's not too far fetched to think that sophisticated technology could be developed to control and direct EM radiation in a way that causes selective electronic malfunctions. We probably already even have such technology ourselves. Therefore it's not unreasonable to suggest that when such effects are reported in conjunction with numerous UFO reports, that the two phenomena are probably associated. It's also not unreasonable that given the number of failures that take place, and the number of UFO reports that also take place, that there are a certain number of sheer coincidences taking place.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Do we really believe that digital cameras can have their images erased or dates scrambled by unknown entities? Isn't this too convenient when it comes to explaining why there is no real photographic evidence in an age where everyone has an instant camera?

True, but there are countless examples of this type of inexplicable failure of electronic gear. Something "tricksterish" appears to be playing w/ us and making it difficult for us to obtain quality data. Case in point: When the UFO Hunters crew flew in a chopper over the Bradshaw Ranch—just outside of Sedona— all their camera and audio batteries were inexplicably drained of their charge—including the backup batteries! Now, I have worked alongside dozens of video professionals in the field over the past 20 years and these guys know their stuff. And there have been a number of times when this type of anomalous affect has happened to pros and their gear. In my mind this has occurred too many times to pros and amateurs alike for the skeptics to sniff and chalk it up to mere coincidence or confabulation. I think that documented examples of this sort of equipment failure is worthy of investigation and research in its own right.

 

[Randall]

I have worked alongside dozens of video professionals in the field over the past 20 years and these guys know their stuff. And there have been a number of times when this type of anomalous affect has happened to pros and their gear. In my mind this has occurred too many times to pros and amateurs alike for the skeptics to sniff and chalk it up to mere coincidence or confabulation. I think that documented examples of this sort of equipment failure is worthy of investigation and research in its own right.

I tend to agree with the above. I also think some cases probably are sheer coincidences that some people read more into than there is evidence for.

 

[Paleontologist]

Yes, Christopher, I hate when that happens. Yet again more anecdotes to support anecdotes. We are left with the simple choice of whether to believe the stories or not. Over the decades of ufology, the promise of actual evidence has failed. This failure is now explained by "trickster" entities and objects coming from other dimensions. In other words, fail test, make new rules. Do I believe the stories about inexplicable equipment failures that occur "too many times" for "mere coincidence or confabulation"? My only option is to question the sources: almost always people with an investment in the phenomena being paranormal. For example, Margie Kay has had UFO and ghost experiences? She is followed by both who show an unusual interest in her? Why shouldn't I conclude that everything she says is likely a combination of mistakes, misperceptions and confabulations? And now you tell us that a UFO Hunters crew has an unexplained equipment failure? How convenient. Some people want and need to rescue useful data from these sketchy stories. Again, the whole paranormal phenomenon is fascinating for many reasons, but credibility is not one of them. Look at the attendance at UFO conventions and the kind of people they now attract. This is a dying field because it failed to deliver on a promise made many years ago. Now it is purely entertainment.

 

[starise]

I recently went on a ghost tour at a cemetary in Gettysburg,PA. My wife and I mostly did this out of curiosity. My wife being an avid photographer had her nice cannon there all charged up and ready to go. We were standing at the edge of the cemetary where she was taking pics and the camera just decided to temporarily die for no reason after a few shots. The transfered pics showed these orbs right before the camera died. As soon as we left the cemetary the camera worked perfectly again. I have read countless stories similar to ours when in the realm of ghosts cemetaries haunted houses and such.
So I know that equipment does malfunction and I would even go so far as to say an intelligence is involved sometimes especially in these circumstances.

Paleontologist, I do think this is just a worn out excuse in many cases though. I hate when that happens.

Better to have never mentioned the pics than to have mentioned that you had something and it went away IMO. Come to me with something.If the fish you caught got away go catch another one and hold onto him this time.

 

[Randall]

Over the decades of ufology, the promise of actual evidence has failed.

Actual evidence? Define that. If you mean "Sufficient scientifically verifiable material evidence." then you are IMO correct. However not all science can provide such evidence and yet it is accepted as valuable and legitimate. Medicine and Meteorology are two examples. Both are based on the observation and calculation of probabilities of transient phenomena, and in the case of medicine, we're also often dealing with anecdotal evidence where treatments are concerned. If we compare that to the evidence for UFOs that is based on radar/visual reports, there is no reason not to consider it every bit as valuable and legitimate. Where ufology has a problem is when people step off the ledge into wild speculation that they promote as a proven truth. However this is no different than the case of quacks in medicine. Do we condemn medicine because of the quacks? No. Nor should we condemn ufology because of its fringe element.

Over the decades of ufology, the promise of actual evidence has failed. This failure is now explained by "trickster" entities and objects coming from other dimensions. In other words, fail test, make new rules.

Please be careful not to paint all ufology with same brush. You will notice if you look at my avatar that I am part of a UFO interest group, and you'll also find that my posts are very conservative. I certainly don't "make new rules" just to suit myself, and when I do propose advancement and change, I also provide objective and logical reasons. In the case of the Trickster, the ufological perspective is that the Trickster paradigm is interesting, but it shouldn't be confused as a part of ufology that explains anything with any certainty.

 

[Apocalypto]

On the topic of batteries draining in the midst of paranormal phenomenon: It does seem to be a common occurrence. It's an extremely fascinating issue.

 

[ottoatom]

I understand that it must be very difficult to take a picture of something as unpredictable as a UFO, I believe that for that matter pictures that are blurry, unfocused, shaky and whatnot are a common trouble. The lack of battery is yet again another excuse for not being wilfully prepared at the event of a UFO sighting.

I do however make this question: 10-15 years ago, when pictures where shot on celluloid films that did not needed any kind of power, what was the excuse? I don't remember to hear of any. If there wasn't then maybe there is a statistic that can prove that the number of UFO and paranormal pictures began to decrease when we started to use digital cameras. if so, I will humbly accept that there is some kind of fluke that makes digital camera's battery go dead. Maybe a chupacabra alien that feeds on battery power? hm.. If not, then sorry but I will keep thinking that "the battery went dead" accident is just another "the dog ate my homework" excuse. And just an idea, instead of using the last eos 5d markIII, maybe take the old analogue camera sidekick for a spin (please not a lomo).

 

[Apocalypto]

I do however make this question: 10-15 years ago, when pictures where shot on celluloid films that did not needed any kind of power, what was the excuse?

Dear sir, it would seem logical that whatever phenomenon is responsible for affecting batteries can also affect film photography.

 

[ottoatom]

"Dear sir, it would seem logical that whatever phenomenon is responsible for affecting batteries can also affect film photography."

So you think I am being naive not to think that if they can tamper with batteries they can do the same with film photography. Well, if we approach this kind of theme with an assumption such as yours, we are bound to find only paranormal explanations.. If you are already assuming that it is an unexplainable phenomena, what kind of down to earth explanation could there be?

My first approach would be to investigate the claims. I think that if one is to investigate this equipment failure theme, before rushing to blame the trickster and write 10 books about it, one needs to be sure it is an actual event and not an invented one. Is it a real event or just bad luck? Are documented events backed with credible proofs? What makes the people that documented it credible? Was there a background check made on those persons? etc.. It's not paranoia, it's basic investigation procedures.

And as ironical as I sounded when asking if there was some kind of a statistic that could prove that people have been having more problems taking pictures than 10-15 years ago, that was a real question. I am really wondering if that is the case and what was the excuse then. I know that analogue or digital cameras can be tampered with, but I'm interested in knowing how was it logged 10-15 years ago. Whatever phenomenon responsible for battery drainage will not necessarily interfere with analogue cameras in the same way, for one because they don't need electrical power to operate and two because common film spectral sensitivity is mostly visible light for which cameras are shielded, so if the cameras were tampered with, what was the end result? what happened? I would assume that to be an important subject to research if someone starts to investigate the equipment failure documented events as Christopher O'brian suggested.

I could be wrong but my opinion is that there isn't any equipment failure. I believe that batteries going dead and magnetic storage failure are a common problem of everyday life and easily accepted as an explanation for not being able to record a supposed extraordinary event. I also believe that paranormal fields such as this one (UFOs) are populated by easily manipulable and gullible people that WANT to believe and when I see or hear about an extraordinary event that is backed up by ill-documented proofs, I know that it is aimed at those people.

I don't believe the trickster entity to exist. I believe in bad luck and good luck, good will and wicked will and I believe in our own personality to be able to interact with life without us to know about, maybe in paranormal ways. In order to believe that the trickster exists, I would have to believe that angels or some other kind of "good fortune advocate" exists as well. I don't. I think humans are very powerfull and complex creatures and credit is far too often given to external forces such as God, Jesus, trickster, miracles, etc... Instead of having faith in something you cannot see and testify, people should believe in humans. Did aliens built the pyramids? come on.. don't underestimate the power of slavery.

 

[Randall]

... Did aliens built the pyramids? come on.. don't underestimate the power of slavery ...

Ironic. After all that in your original post, you end off by seemingly buying into another common myth:

"Rooted firmly in the popular imagination is the idea that the pyramids were built by slaves serving a merciless pharaoh. This notion of a vast slave class in Egypt originated in Judeo-Christian tradition and has been popularized by Hollywood productions like Cecil B. De Mille’s The Ten Commandments, in which a captive people labor in the scorching sun beneath the whips of pharaoh’s overseers. But graffiti from inside the Giza monuments themselves have long suggested something very different."​

Source: Harvard Magazine ( See Complete Story )

 

[ottoatom]

Well, it maybe is a common myth but it is what I was taught in school :-p and I believe the result of previous investigations.. It doesn't invalidate my point, as the article in question still suggests that humans did all the work. However I wouldn't jump to any final conclusion just now as the article points out "Slaves or not, as the last season of his dig began, Lehner still did not know where all the workers slept." So stay tuned for more on that...

 

[Fcseven]

Sorry, she lost me when the talk about being a psychic started.

 

[Randall]

Sorry, she lost me when the talk about being a psychic started.

Agreed. I don't recall the MUFON UFO Investigator's Certificate Program involving "psychic" detection methods. In retrospect I should have posted the question. "Are you a certified MUFON investigator?" IMO she didn't come across as someone who has successfully completed that course, but there she is out there representing MUFON in the public. MUFON has either become way too relaxed or she's doing it without authorization from the MUFON board ... or both.

 

[Apocalypto]

"Dear sir, it would seem logical that whatever phenomenon is responsible for affecting batteries can also affect film photography."

So you think I am being naive not to think that if they can tamper with batteries they can do the same with film photography. Well, if we approach this kind of theme with an assumption such as yours, we are bound to find only paranormal explanations..

That's simply not true, and almost naive in its implications. There's nothing paranormal about electricity, for example, but try bringing back electrical devices to the cave man days and showing it to them. What would they think about the technology?

As Clarke stated, Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.