Obama Birth Certificate

[pixelsmith]

Mike,

It was barbed, but it really was a real question, too. How did you decide that such a claim was worth even repeating---did you really think that any agencies of US allies had declared that the President of the United States was a liar?

As for the number on the certificate...

A couple of possibilities:

Obama was born on Friday, Aug 4th at 7 pm.
Susan Nordyke was born the next afternoon.

The hospitals registrars office was closed for the weekend. On Monday the 7th, when the clerk did the paperwork, they were handed over in alphabetical order (if in any order at all), not chronologically. Susan got 10637, Obama got 10641.

===

Sometimes parents take a while to decide the name and records might be delayed.

===

How do we know that the numbers are supposed to represent births in order anyway? Where is that discussed?

====

I probably could think of a few more reasons but if you want to go with dastardly conspiracy, feel free. Notice that several more dumb birther claims have already been decidedly disproven already today....maybe this one claim is the gem?

If not, don't worry they will come up with some more.

Lance

Lance your name calling makes you look worse than the "dumb birthers".

The birth documents being out of order is no big deal as the blank documents may have been handed out to more than one individual for processing.

 

[mike]

Mike,

It was barbed, but it really was a real question, too. How did you decide that such a claim was worth even repeating---did you really think that any agencies of US allies had declared that the President of the United States was a liar?

As for the number on the certificate...

A couple of possibilities:

Obama was born on Friday, Aug 4th at 7 pm.
Susan Nordyke was born the next afternoon.

The hospitals registrars office was closed for the weekend. On Monday the 7th, when the clerk did the paperwork, they were handed over in alphabetical order (if in any order at all), not chronologically. Susan got 10637, Obama got 10641.

===

Sometimes parents take a while to decide the name and records might be delayed.

===

How do we know that the numbers are supposed to represent births in order anyway? Where is that discussed?

====

I probably could think of a few more reasons but if you want to go with dastardly conspiracy, feel free. Notice that several more dumb birther claims have already been decidedly disproven already today....maybe this one claim is the gem?

If not, don't worry they will come up with some more.

Lance

As stated lance , because i didnt know the answer, and i figured someone here would.

As a wise man once said "ask a question ,you might appear ignorant. Dont ask.....and you will remain so"

I was the first person to defend your right to ask questions when someone threatened to " bounce" you for it.......so to insult me for asking one of my own seems ungracious of you

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Lance. If "they" are "birthers" does that make you a "truther"?

 

[CapnG]

They desperately, desperately NEED for Obama to somehow not be president, don't they?

It's really depressing.

 

[mike]

As far as not hearing this masden guys claim in the MSM, my wife often remarks on "breaking news" that i had been discussing days and even weeks prior. the swine flu cluster in mexico being a good example, it was 3 weeks after i told her about it, it became "breaking news" on the TV here.
Having said that i cant find any other references to his "sources" online yet.
However there is still the basic premise of that "story" in regards to the negro/african designation.
It does appear that census designations from that period used the term negro instead of african.

And again, im only asking because im interested in the answers, im not a birther or a truther

 

[The Pair of Cats]

OFF TOPIC FOR PHIL:

I have never mentioned it but I know Jabberwocky by heart! I love Lewis Carroll.

I'm with you on that one!

 

[mike]

They desperately, desperately NEED for Obama to somehow not be president, don't they?

It's really depressing.

I think a lot of this straw clutching is veiled racism to be honest, as i said earlier the people voted and he won, That speaks to me of the spirit of the law, rather than the letter of the law.
I think there are people who object to him based on skin colour, and they are latching on to this as a means of being rid of him.
Even if its true he was born in kenya, the people made their choice, and as such the letter of the law should be set aside in favour of the spirit of the law, ie he won a democratic vote . end of story.

 

[CapnG]

I think a lot of this straw clutching is veiled racism to be honest, as i said earlier the people voted and he won, That speaks to me of the spirit of the law, rather than the letter of the law.
I think there are people who object to him based on skin colour, and they are latching on to this as a means of being rid of him.
Even if its true he was born in kenya, the people made their choice, and as such the letter of the law should be set aside in favour of the spirit of the law, ie he won a democratic vote . end of story.

The racism component is self-evident. As to the rest, it needn't go that far. Here's a thought: has anyone considered the possibility of HUMAN error in all this? Maybe somebody fucked up when they scanned it. Maybe some errors existed on the original certificate because the person who wrote it up at the time was tired or something. Do we really need to jump right to the conspiracy angle every time?

 

[mike]

As i said earlier, sometimes in order to uphold the spirit of the law, the letter of the law must be set aside.
Even if he is not a US born citizen, the voters made a democratic decision to make him president.
I see comments like "if hes not a citizen then every law hes passed etc etc is null and void."
I dont see any merit in that claim, he was elected by the majority to represent them, any laws he's signed off on has been done so, as a duly elected representitive of those people, not as a citizen of the US or Kenya, but rather as the elected leader of the society that voted him in.

some of the logic in the Certificate debate does seem twisted though, as the authors of this one acknowledge

Some of these differences may be explained by different people preparing the documents on different typewriters, yet how do two different formats appear in the date stamp used in Boxes 20 and 22 is more difficult to explain if the Obama birth certificate is legitimate.
Both the Nordyke twins' birth certificates and the Obama birth certificate identify the birth hospital as Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital, even though there has been considerable Internet discussion that that was not the official name of the hospital in 1961.

Read more: A tale of two birth certificates http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=292717#ixzz1KswWy2FP
On the one hand we have people saying the Nordyke BC's are a rosetta stone, but they too list the hospital as a hospital despite debate about what it was called in 1961, the discrepancies in format are as they say explained by a scenario where different people typed them up.

To my mind there are no smoking guns here, but questions will always remain.
And thats OK, questions are valid they are the only way we get answers......

 

[muse]

I thought this article was funny so I am passing it along...


Obama birth certificate found - he's Chinese!!
White House releases President Obama's real birth certificate - but there's a big disappointment for some Birthers
By DICK KENNEDY, PRESIDENTIAL NATIVITY EDITOR

Following intense pressure from Donald Trump and Usenet activists, the White House has finally released a copy of President Barack Obama's long-form birth certificate.
And he's Chinese!

"We wanted to shut up these Birther idiots once and for all," said a White House spokesman, "so we spent all Easter weekend looking for the damn thing. We finally found it stuffed in an envelope with some old utility bills, three tickets to an Emerson, Lake & Palmer concert and seven AOL CDs."

The certificate appears to show Obama's birthplace as Honolulu. However, advanced image analysis by the Carpenter Foundation for American National Purity reveals that the document was recently altered.

"Clearly this is a cover-up of epic proportions," said William Carpenter, founder of the Foundation. "We haven't seen a whitewash of these dimensions since the Nixon days. Except for Clinton. And Bush. And the other Bush."

It's believed that the Carpenter Foundation was hired by Trump to examine the document.
"Trump wanted to prove, once and for all, that Obama is a Muslim," said Carpenter. "This is a huge disappointment for him."
Careful image manipulation showed that Obama's place of birth was not, in fact, Hawaii but the town of Honororo, in the Heilongjiang province of China.
"Although it shows he's not an American, Trump has to be careful not to upset the Chinese," said NewWorldDisorder, a Usenet researcher and aluminum foil salesman. "Hell, no-one wants to upset the Chinese - they own half our damn country."
Trump has now told Yahoo! News that he simply want to "move on" with what remains of his life.

 

[pixelsmith]

The racism component is self-evident. As to the rest, it needn't go that far. Here's a thought: has anyone considered the possibility of HUMAN error in all this? Maybe somebody fucked up when they scanned it. Maybe some errors existed on the original certificate because the person who wrote it up at the time was tired or something. Do we really need to jump right to the conspiracy angle every time?

there might be a few racists who despise him. i am not one of those. i have many friends and 4 family members who are black. i despise him for being another in a long line of fucking liars.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

there might be a few racists who despise him. i am not one of those. i have many friends and 4 family members who are black. i despise him for being another in a long line of fucking liars.

Unfortunately, most politicians are. The ones that aren't have little chance of being elected.

 

[pixelsmith]

Unfortunately, most politicians are. The ones that aren't have little chance of being elected.

i think you mean Selected. we need to get back to real elections where your vote actually counts. the electoral process and the voting machines simply suck.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

i think you mean Selected. we need to get back to real elections where your vote actually counts. the electoral process and the voting machines simply suck.

Sorry, I live in Canada. We have literal ballots where you mark an "X" with a pencil. However, even with that there have been problems as seen by what happened in the Sovereignty vote in Quebec. The new laws in place though for elections are reasonable and prevent those issues.

 

[pixelsmith]

we can help take care of that when we merge north america.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Ok. I'm glad to know that.

 

[trainedobserver]

My absolute favorite.
17. Address for Obama's childhood home is the middle of a highway.

----------------------------------

But seriously. What is at work here? What causes people, and I include myself, to "Jump to Conclusions" or just seriously entertain outrageous notions for some length of time? Isn't this aspect of things pretty central to the popularity of the paranormal and conspiracy theories?

I must admit, when I first reviewed the various layers I was puzzled and I create electronic documents everyday. In my defense I do not scan documents and create things in the manner in which the Birth Certificate was prepared for publication, but I still feel foolish for not immediately recognizing what was going on. It just took a little time and some thought as well as having it replicated by a couple of folks to cement in my mind what I was seeing. I've always been interested in strange tales of the paranormal, ufos, and conspiracy theories. So I've believed or at least entertained some real outrageous ideas in my life in regards to those subjects as well as religious ones. So I seem to have a tendency or capacity (depending on how kind you want to be) to suspend disbelief and entertain the unusual at the drop of a hat. I blame Jack Kirby and Stan Lee.

So I've just been asking myself. What is it? Was I stupid to believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God for 30 something years of my life? Was it a lack of intelligence that allowed me to believe the whole Grey Alien mythos for several years? Was I experiencing the manifestation of some flaw in my character when I was seriously considering that the damn birth certificate was a digital forgery for several minutes yesterday? I'm thinking it's probably a bit more complex than that. I'm wondering about the origins of our gullibility and how we overcome it rather than letting it overcome us.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

My absolute favorite.
17. Address for Obama's childhood home is the middle of a highway.

----------------------------------

But seriously. What is at work here? What causes people, and I include myself, to "Jump to Conclusions" or just seriously entertain outrageous notions for some length of time? Isn't this aspect of things pretty central to the popularity of the paranormal and conspiracy theories?

I must admit, when I first reviewed the various layers I was puzzled and I create electronic documents everyday. In my defense I do not scan documents and create things in the manner in which the Birth Certificate was prepared for publication, but I still feel foolish for not immediately recognizing what was going on. It just took a little time and some thought as well as having it replicated by a couple of folks to cement in my mind what I was seeing. I've always been interested in strange tales of the paranormal, ufos, and conspiracy theories. So I've believed or at least entertained some real outrageous ideas in my life in regards to those subjects as well as religious ones. So I seem to have a tendency or capacity (depending on how kind you want to be) to suspend disbelief and entertain the unusual at the drop of a hat. I blame Jack Kirby and Stan Lee.

So I've just been asking myself. What is it? Was I stupid to believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God for 30 something years of my life? Was it a lack of intelligence that allowed me to believe the whole Grey Alien mythos for several years? Was I experiencing the manifestation of some flaw in my character when I was seriously considering that the damn birth certificate was a digital forgery for several minutes yesterday? I'm thinking it's probably a bit more complex than that. I'm wondering about the origins of our gullibility and how we overcome it rather than letting it overcome us.

The important thing to understand is that you realized what was happening and you understood it. You looked at the data and made an educated decision.
The problem is when people refuse to change their minds and deny evidence - something we see for example in a lot of topics covered in this forum.

 

[Han]

Ok this is complcated and will be hard for me to put into words but I will try: (please bare in mind that I am outsider and that what I say is my opinion, and also I dont regard my country (UK) to be not guilty of the same things. I also am not being Ironic, sarcastic or deliberately missleading).

Insight into the mind of a truther

In the run up to the 2008 Presidential election I was convinced that Obama could and would not win, because he was Black. I believed that clandestine internal political forces would conspire to prevent this from happening. When he was elected I was genuinely pleased and my admiration and respect for America rose dramaticly, However I did have a sense of forboding and worried that something might happen (Assasanation attempt for example) but my overriding feeling was that it was a great thing for America and the world.
I recall thinking about the fact that when he (Obama) was born racial segregation was still in effect in some parts of the U.S.

>>Fast forward to the height of the credit crunch:
Imagine my lack of suprise when Obama is blamed/scapegoated and held personally responsible for the entire scenario(not by all but by many), when it could not possibly of been his doing as he was not in office when the foundations of the collapse were layed. To my "truther" mind this smacks of an ambush or setup and I recon that the "clandestine internal political forces" I mentioned before are and were involved. In other words They knew of the iminent collapse and effectively contrived to have Obama elected in full knowledge that when the ship went down he would be Captain (in charge/responsible).

>>Fast forward to this issue with Obamas Birth Cirtificate:
On one hand this makes me think I have greatly overestimated the ability and nous of the "clandestine internal political forces" as it is to me an issue of little or no significance, but on the other hand the facts that (1) it is being treated by many as important (2) it is being disscused worldwide. demonstrates that they(clandestine internal political forces) have audible influential voices that impact on what people think and say. And that they know only too well how to manipulate, divide and control the (general)public.

I know that Americans are no different from anybody else, we are all human and are subject to many influences, but because of Americas elevated position of status in the world and the hope and influence that you give it, I hope you will get past this non issue and concentrate on what makes you a great nation and that is your People and their Ideas.

 

[pixelsmith]

Ok this is complcated and will be hard for me to put into words but I will try: (please bare in mind that I am outsider and that what I say is my opinion, and also I dont regard my country (UK) to be not guilty of the same things. I also am not being Ironic, sarcastic or deliberately missleading).

Insight into the mind of a truther

In the run up to the 2008 Presidential election I was convinced that Obama could and would not win, because he was Black. I believed that clandestine internal political forces would conspire to prevent this from happening. When he was elected I was genuinely pleased and my admiration and respect for America rose dramaticly, However I did have a sense of forboding and worried that something might happen (Assasanation attempt for example) but my overriding feeling was that it was a great thing for America and the world.
I recall thinking about the fact that when he (Obama) was born racial segregation was still in effect in some parts of the U.S.

>>Fast forward to the height of the credit crunch:
Imagine my lack of suprise when Obama is blamed/scapegoated and held personally responsible for the entire scenario(not by all but by many), when it could not possibly of been his doing as he was not in office when the foundations of the collapse were layed. To my "truther" mind this smacks of an ambush or setup and I recon that the "clandestine internal political forces" I mentioned before are and were involved. In other words They knew of the iminent collapse and effectively contrived to have Obama elected in full knowledge that when the ship went down he would be Captain (in charge/responsible).

>>Fast forward to this issue with Obamas Birth Cirtificate:
On one hand this makes me think I have greatly overestimated the ability and nous of the "clandestine internal political forces" as it is to me an issue of little or no significance, but on the other hand the facts that (1) it is being treated by many as important (2) it is being disscused worldwide. demonstrates that they(clandestine internal political forces) have audible influential voices that impact on what people think and say. And that they know only too well how to manipulate, divide and control the (general)public.

I know that Americans are no different from anybody else, we are all human and are subject to many influences, but because of Americas elevated position of status in the world and the hope and influence that you give it, I hope you will get past this non issue and concentrate on what makes you a great nation and that is your People and their Ideas.

HAN, obomba is no more black than he is white. in fact he is most likely more white than black.