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Oct 26th show

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Great idea, skeptoid. I've always thought that doing some sociological research into the recent resurgence in popularity of the paranormal would bear a lot of interesting fruit, and would probably go a long way toward explaining the parallel craziness in the political arena. Back in the 90s, I thought it was some type of millennial hysteria, but it seems to have persisted and even grown over the last 10 years or so.

I read an interesting article in the recent issue of the Cornell alumni magazine about how we are living in a 'post-factual' society (i.e., that as a society we have come to the conclusion that objective reality is at worst non-existent and at best cumbersome and difficult to deal with, so we are simply immersing ourselves in our respective subjective realities).

I certainly don't approve of doing so, but the theory certainly would explain a lot of what we see these days.
 
Hang on while I put on my flak jacket... okay all set. Now on to my point.

If you believe that we are here to learn, that earth is a school for souls then that's one thing. Life is still a random collection of experiences.

If however you believe there is a "lesson plan" drawn up before you achieve corporeal existence then absolutely everything that happens to you, up to and including your death is part of that plan. So, from the point of view of someone who maintains this philosophy, 9/11 is only horrific and traumatic for those people who were associates of/related to the victims. For the victims themselves it was graduation day.

"That's unconcionably insensitive!" I hear you thinking. But it's not though... not really. From the life-planner's point of view everything is as it should be. And what's more, the life-planner is confused by your outrage. How could this news not bring you comfort? To have your friend/family member snatched away in a senseless tragedy is devastating. Surely being told it's "all okay" because "it's what they chose" and was therefore "part of the plan" should bring relief.

Did that make sense?

Kudos to Mac for expounding and explaining transhumanism. For those still in the dark on this one, here's the breif argument. People opposing transhumanism often warn of a horrific, borg like existence, one where humans lose their humanity in the face of mechanical "enhancement" to which all people must comply. On the other end, supporters speak of an unlocking of human potential, unbound by the frailties of the mortal coil, an endless, immortal existence in which we can live out all our greatest dreams and goals.

Personally, I think transhumanism will be like everything else in history: available only to the rich.

If indeed someone 100% thought we are responsible for our own story lines in our lives, then that rationale would hold. But........... I still think it is inappropriate and insensitive in a public forum (unless you have some crazy amount of evidence to back up your theory), to announce that people who were mass murdered planned to be murdered on some level, you could argue it's even more inappropriate to say this in a public forum so close to where this event happened.

I think those type of pronouncements are the type of stuff people should keep to themselves along with the time they sharted at work and when they became closet devil worshippers in high school :)

Personally, I think it's possible we have say about our own story lines going into this life, but I also think there are way too many decisions and variables that would effect the story line outcome to oversimplify it and say everything that happens to you is part of some plan. I don't think it has to bee 100% planned or 100% completely random, perhaps you just choose where you're gonna come into this life and general obstacles/decisions you are likely* to encounter.
 
I do concur with the underlying tone of this show.
  • The lack of profressional/intelligent conduct in the paranormal arena and in most of the greater western society at large.
I was reading the UK rags earlier in the week and there was an article that now 14 year olds intellectual ability is equivalent to 12 year olds - despite massive increases in exam success over the years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-olds-slipped-radically-just-generation.html

There appears to be the hidden hand of "political politeness" at work here (note - I do not call it correctness) - that nobody is allowed to FAIL - because it is not nice.

Our society is indeed softening -
We have embarked on the great "Human" party of love, drink, happiness and excess - The Media, Our Culture and all the Pretentiousness of Celebrity, Power and Fame has derailed common sense and sobre thought.

The people want there fast cars, the big houses and to be at the top of the hill.
The bank managers and corporations looking for faster and bigger profits.
The adverts - the commercial TV attractiveness Buy, Buy, Buy!!

Where is the sobre common sense of the founding fathers? Where has it gone?

Like every dog that must return to it's own vomit. We likewise are now entering our liquidity bottleneck - to face the worse hangover and punishing beating back to reality since records began.

We know the causes, We feel the symptons - yeah sure, we can inject ourselves with $x trillion - but, I doubt this will work, we need the bitter pill - of which our politicians are unable to administer.

My optimism for humanity is in the hopeful downfall of the system - and consequent cascade through the school of hard knocks - will teach people how once again to think rationally, behave properly and remove once and for all the hedonist nonsense that suffocates our society.

Isn't it ashame that we have not been able to pre-empt this situation, despite the voluminous accounts of records from History - and our administrations have chosen to ignore them - why? because it's old hat - written by politically "incorrect" authors

I will close out with some of the most startling similarities between the current west and the old Roman Empire testified by the Historian Edward Gibbon. (The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire - Edward Gibbon)

UNION AND INTERNAL PROSPERITY
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was scarcely possible that the eyes of contemporaries should discover in the public felicity the latent causes of decay and corruption. This long peace, and the uniform government of the Romans, introduced a slow and secret poison into the vitals of the empire. The minds of men were gradually reduced to the same level, the fire of genius was extinguished, and even the military spirit evaporated.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The name of Poet was almost forgotten, that of Orator was usurped by the sophists. A cloud of critics, of compilers, of commentators, darkened the face of learning, and the decline of genius was soon followed by the corruption of taste.

Longinus, observes and laments this degeneracy of his contempories, which debased their sentiments, enervated their courage, and depressed theire talents. "In the same manner," says he, "as some children always remain pygmies, whose infant limbs have been too closely confined; thus our tender minds, fettered by the prejudices and habits of a just servitude, are unable to expand themselves, or to attain that well proportioned greatness which we admire in the ancients who, living under a popular government, wrote with the same freedom as they acted".
 
To be serious for a moment: Maybe if we had more elitists in the government — people who are uniquely qualified to do the job they are hired to do — we'd have fewer screw-ups. Maybe something would get done that would help the people, keep taxes down, balance the budget, etc. Instead, we get officials who'd barely qualify as "average," and perhaps barely qualify for entry-level positions in the private sector.


But so many of those already serving in the government, whether in elected or appointed positions of authority, are poster children of the "elite" model. Consider the number of Skull and Bones members, graduates of "prestigious" Ivy League universities, exclusive finishing schools, and "old money" family descendants who survive the passing of every administration despite gross incompetency and self serving deception, and I believe it's obvious that we need to redefine the meaning of "the best and the brightest."

I'm convinced we'd all be a lot better off if we had a lot more people in government who had paid their way through college by slinging asphalt or working the night shift in a hellhole of a factory. Then we might actually benefit form the experiences of politicians who aren't baffled by the sight of a product scanner in a store checkout, or know what it's like to survive on Ramen noodles and hot plate grilled cheese sandwiches.

But, there would probably be exceptions to that rule. Sarah Palin comes readily to mind, although in her case I may be allowing personal prejudice to affect my opinion. She's the spitting image of Mrs. Rhoden, a particularly vicious girls' high school gym teacher who had no sense of humor at all and persecuted a perfectly decent and exceptionally good looking young guy just because he lifted ten pounds of dry ice form the chem lab and dumped it into the locker room toilets and Jacuzzi producing a huge boiling fog bank that both terrified and amazed everyone except said ball breaking gym teacher who wouldn't stop torturing him until he got a three day ticket home which made his poor mother bust out bawling and earned a threatening lecture form dad that made his hair stand on end plus being grounded with no car priviliges for three months, thus causing an outstandingly luscious potentially steady girlfriend to drop him like a small pox infected wad of chewing gum and take up with a no good future alcoholic car dealership owner who never amounted to anything.

Case closed. We need more people like me running things, and a whole lot less of those other guys. They stink on ice.
 
But so many of those already serving in the government, whether in elected or appointed positions of authority, are poster children of the "elite" model. Consider the number of Skull and Bones members, graduates of "prestigious" Ivy League universities, exclusive finishing schools, and "old money" family descendants who survive the passing of every administration despite gross incompetency and self serving deception, and I believe it's obvious that we need to redefine the meaning of "the best and the brightest."

But that's a key difference in terminology between "elite" and "elitist". An elite is someone who IS superior (for example "elite special forces"), an elitist is someone who just thinks they are. Governments contain far too many of the latter and far too few of the former thanks to a system that rewards nepotism and sychophantism and mocks and punishes dedication and hard work.

So with this minor modification in mind, Gene's intial treatise is still a good one; we need more elites running the show. After all if someone has to run this circus I would at least hope that they are smarter than I...
 
But that's a key difference in terminology between "elite" and "elitist". An elite is someone who IS superior (for example "elite special forces"), an elitist is someone who just thinks they are. Governments contain far too many of the latter and far too few of the former thanks to a system that rewards nepotism and sychophantism and mocks and punishes dedication and hard work.

I tend to agree with you, but it's complex. You've got another crew in government as well. One of my jobs as a teenager was a short order cook in a fast food restaurant (an independent: Slim's Drive In, run by Walt, who was NOT slim.) Walt's attitiude was that the Civil Service was for the incompetent. He was fond of pointing out a customer to me and saying, "That guy works for the government, and he's a stupid shit." (No PC for Walt; he called 'em like he saw them.) As a small business owner who had run many businesses, I see his point. Here he is out there putting a business together with no guarantees, and these civil service guys get all holidays and a cushy pension and get away with a shitty attitude. I don't think everyone working for government is like that at all, but his point was that incompetent and lazy people tended to gravitate toward that kind of employment. If you land a tenured job with government, you simply don't have to put out.

On the other hand you have elitists (by your definition) permeating all of society, such as forums. Let's say Paracast is full of geniuses and go on over to my local newspaper forum (actually a pretty nice interactive setup). Everyone who posts there knows everything about everything. Just ask them or read their posts. They know everything about the government. They know everything about the rise in oil prices (Oops, the FALL in oil prices, sorry.) They are experts in diplomacy, politics, science, religion, and the court system. They know what sentences criminals should receive and who is or is not guilty just by reading 'Police Blotter.' They know how the police SHOULD have handled every encounter as well. Facts do not deter them; they are just in the way. From my humble point of view they haven't had a logical thought pass through their cortex in their entire lives, but hey. They're right about everything. In a culture like ours where no one is allowed to judge anyone else or allow them to fail, everyone's an expert. Just ask them.

OK, thanks. I feel better now.
 
Such a downfall results in many innocent people suffering. Surely you're not insensitive to that?

A problem is like a cancer - we should have dealt with this one a little earlier, as soon as the symptons began to arise - this is one of the failings we have with democratic system.

We needed leadership, we needed politicians to be physicians of our society - to cure our ill's before the infection spread - unfortunately as most people will always follow the path of least resistance in the voting system our politicians have not acted in this way, deciding instead to put it off for another day. Another day is now dawning and we are awakening to the fact we are in the later stages of the infection.

Westernised humanity is completely cancer-ridden, the problem has now reached a proportion where it is easy to diagnose but the cure will be painful.

This problem requires a solution. The bambi way of tackling these problems is over. The incision needs to be made to remove the infection.

Hard problems require Hard Solutions - and this is usually the task of the political right. The scapel will come out - arms and legs will be amputated. We will see much violence and blood - but all is a necessary evil to get on the path to recovery.

I have always tried to maintain political neutrality regarding these issues - and will demonstrate this by saying "In history, ironically it seems that the left wing failures are the precursor to right wing failures and vice versa" - so both exist in synergy with each other.


If what I am saying is insensitive, tough!!
Many innocent people suffering....
We have all had the ability too change our outcome - to overthrow bad decisions/politicians, to protest - but as I said before we collectively have allowed ourselves to sleepwalk into this grave situation -

The only way up now, is down -
Don't try and hold it up, let it fall - for the sooner it falls, the sooner we can rebuild it and get back up.

I am sorry that you appear to have a tender heart - Never fear, time will harden it.
 
One does not cure a broken leg by breaking the other leg and both arms. You're actually crying out for full-blown fascism. DrewUK, you're insane.
 
One does not cure a broken leg by breaking the other leg and both arms. You're actually crying out for full-blown fascism. DrewUK, you're insane.

DrewUK - You appear to be one of the people that will not lose an arm or a leg when the cutting starts. I am speaking to you as a person who life WAS amputated around 2003 when the first round of this downturn started. So this isn't an opinion its fact. I knew quite a few people who suddenly found themselves abandonded.

My industry was absolutely gutted by the policies of the current administration. All of the jobs disappeared overseas and I, along with many others found ourselves out in the street. I eventually was not able to pay my morgage, oil (which was heat and hot water), electric and food. I was living off credit from the corner market. I boiled water for showers for 2 years. I had to file for Bankrupcy in 2004 and then again in 2005 to save my house, and I am still paying thousands of dollars every few months to pay back property taxes. I was out of work for 11 months. I mean why would a company pay me 65k a year when they could make due for someone for 25k a year. You appear to have not walked in the peoples shoes you are ready to hack to pieces.

Do this. Think about the economy during the Clinton years, then think about the economy during the Bush years. Can you honestly say that the right cutting and hacking is gonna fix this mess?
 
CapnG/Mothra:

Ok, I think we have a misunderstanding here.

Firstly, I am not promoting any form of political misadventure here. Perhaps using the "political right" as some tool to get my message across was misleading, as it takes us down the relative recent historical perspective of Fascism and Nazism - and National Socialism was not necessarily stricly speaking exclusively a right wing point of view.

What I was advocating was to deal with this before it arose - now though, we have left it too late and consequently liberalism (conditioned debate, rhetoric, politeness and niceties) is pointless now - given the portfolio of problems we are about to encounter, at approximately the same time - this is no coincidence, merely the ability of humanity to procrastinate, and hide from problems.
  • Financial payback - Credit constriction- Depression.
  • Corporate Moral bankrupty and failure of political leadership.
  • Dwindling energy reserves.
  • Community - Social breakdown.
  • Global Climatic change.
  • Unresolved world regional tensions
All these problems are going to ignite some form of change - it will throw people into adverse poverty as Mothra so elegantly describes.
The result - there will be draconian political effects - it will start small: affecting the lowest common denominator - perhaps resulting in a revolt - and then exacerbate on to global tensions. Ergo - 1930/40's.

So, I will start small - in the hope of answering Mothra's question.

You appear to have not walked in the peoples shoes you are ready to hack to pieces.

I was born, during the 70's into a Northern English community.
The family and the community comprised of mill workers, labourers, manufacturers, miners.

We grew up in relative poverty - My descendents fell victim to the 1930's depression and my current life experienced Thatcherite disinvestment of our industries during the 80's.

My family were big supporters of the mining strikes et al - and I was involved in some of the demonstrations and protests occuring during the 80's. It was here that I got the first glimpse of the exponentionally proportional relationship between poverty and violence.

We lived on the breadline - but this background taught us one of the most basic and important lessons ever.
  • Gullibility may be an amiable failing in some departments of life. The sucker may be afflicted by nothing but an excess of faith, hope and charity.
  • If you expend less than you earn - happiness. If you expend more than you earn - misery.
As conditions stabilised over the years - it was strange how people around us were becomming more affluent yet the nature and normalised income of there jobs had not really changed. Whats more even the community spirit was dissolving.

My gut instinct was that something was changing, and not necessarily for the best - community was being replaced by commercialism: Thatcher had won. Parents could no longer afford to put a square meal on the table, but always had room for warehouse purchases.

So my response to your question is this:

"If you have ever been poor, the strategems of poverty come back to you like old friends when it looks you in the face again."

I will continue with this later.
 
Drew you say, "Westernised humanity is completely cancer-ridden, the problem has now reached a proportion where it is easy to diagnose but the cure will be painful."

What part of the world is not cancer-ridden? The Eastern World? Africa? Is a peaceful subsistence existence preferable?

Personally, I'd rather live among the western cancer in a shitty economy than live anywhere else. Someone always has it off much worse than you do and at least is the United States, no matter how bad the economy is, we usually have it much better than a significant majority of the rest of the world.

This most recent economic problem IMO seems to be related to greed, apathy, and shortsightedness, doesn't seem like anything new to me given human history. I think the bottom line is that, we are human and until we evolve .........the ideal society ain't happening regardless of your left, right, middle approach.
 
Rocketsauce -

The key word here is "sustainability" -
The Eastern world, India, Africa, China have grown at a sustainable rate - i.e. they have grown utilising there ability what they can rationally afford - in the main they have borrowed to the extent to which they can afford. Although, I agree that there will be shortfalls under the current global crisis - they are well aware of poverty and are better equipped to deal with it.

Let me put forward an analogy - It is not speed that causes the crash, neither is it stationary object - what causes the crash is the immediate realisation that your going to hit something and that you know full well that you cannot break hard enough.

The western economies have grown so unsustainably rapidly without an air bag that now faced with the barrier - it is inevitable that we be going through the windscreen.

If you want to stay in that car, then good luck to ya.
I would prefer to be on the African Moped.
 
National Socialism was not necessarily stricly speaking exclusively a right wing point of view.

Oh gimme a break... There was nothing "socialist" about the NAZIs, in fact when some of Hitlers subordinates occaisionally complained about the NSDAP not getting enough into the "socialist" aspect they tended to "resign" shortly thereafter. It was a sales gimmick, like "family values" for Republicans, that's all. The commies were enemy #2 to these people for cryin' out loud!
 
Oh gimme a break... There was nothing "socialist" about the NAZIs, in fact when some of Hitlers subordinates occaisionally complained about the NSDAP not getting enough into the "socialist" aspect they tended to "resign" shortly thereafter. It was a sales gimmick, like "family values" for Republicans, that's all. The commies were enemy #2 to these people for cryin' out loud!

Guess what, your absolutely correct, and I totally agree - so whats the point?

I was more on about the distinction between left wing and right wing - The NAZI's appeared more right wing on external/foreign issues and more leftish on there domestic issues - social housing, social welfare, social assistance etc.. admittedly it was "German - Teutonic" only.

Sales campaign or not, it was convincing and attractive to the German people. Especially after the collapse....
 
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