October 25, 2015 — Stanton T. Friedman

[Mr. Fibuli]

In my timeline she's a doctor!

lol

 

[DaveM]

In my timeline she's a doctor!

He's a doctor like Harlan Sanders is a Kentucky colonel.

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

I don't personally put anyone with a doctorate on a pedestal. Nuts to their corrupted parochial university system.

 

[Spectre73]

Thanks for asking my question

Always good to hear Stan Friedman , but pretty much the same as before...

 

[withoutlimits09]

Although I am happy Chris read my question to Stanton, i.e.:

"1. I would be curious to know if he still believes TWO flying saucers crashed into each other in "Corona," if so, how does he balance that in the face of other researchers like Randell who hold to the fact that there was only one crashed saucer. Can he name another Roswell researcher who believes 2 saucers crashed into each other? Finally, how could there be two competing theories, so foundational to the story, if these witnesses are so rock solid? Either it was one crash or two crashes, if there is confusion on that main point, then the whole story seems to be shaky and the witnesses unreliable."

I was really disappointed by his answer, or lack thereof. He didn't address a single aspect of the question. I still find it odd that you could have two drastically different tellings of the same event by first hand witnesses. The idea that Stanton concludes that two saucers crashed was not just invented by himself, someone had to have told him there were two saucers. If so, that contradicts so many other accounts. Again, if these witnesses are to be considered reliable and such credible and trained observers, we should not see two competing theories, so foundational to the narrative. It isn't like researchers are trivially disagreeing about the size or shape of the craft. We have Stanton out there suggesting there were two crashed saucers and EIGHT!! bodies, where as others don't agree with this at all. If there is massive confusion on this main point, I think that really calls into question the reliability of many of these witnesses.

Stanton made no attempt to clear this up, instead he went into a ten minute meandering speech about radar. It made zero sense to me.

 

[Sub-light]

I enjoyed the show too! I always like hearing Stanton Friedman but, yes a lot of it was familiar territory lol.
One thing that was brought up was SETI. I realize that SETI and UFOlogy don't exactly get along.
SETI is often ridiculed on the show. I realize that SETI says a lot unkind things about UFOlogy but...
I don't understand the kinds of things that you guys say about it.
I think any effort to try and find extraterrestrial life is valid. Gene is often quoted as saying why are we looking for "radio signals, they'd be too far advanced for that"? The answer is, you don't know that. Who knows what they're using as a form of communication for one thing. They also aren't looking for "super" advanced civilizations, they're looking for any civilizations. Granted, they should expand their listening capability for more exotic forms but , you have to start with something. Assuming that other civilizations have sent space probes out to explore their part of the galaxy we could pick up a signal from one of them. And, they should be doing that which they aren't, by the way.
I just think that the rift between SETI and UFO believers is silly. Nick hope once said "you're both looking for the same thing in different ways". Who's to say that trying to photograph paranormal phenomena makes any sense if you want to use that kind of logic.
By the way I sent a message to SETI on Facebook saying the same kind of thing from a different perspective.

 

[Azz7092]

I enjoyed the show too! I always like hearing Stanton Friedman but, yes a lot of it was familiar territory lol.
One thing that was brought up was SETI. I realize that SETI and UFOlogy don't exactly get along.
SETI is often ridiculed on the show. I realize that SETI says a lot unkind things about UFOlogy but...
I don't understand the kinds of things that you guys say about it.
I think any effort to try and find extraterrestrial life is valid. Gene is often quoted as saying why are we looking for "radio signals, they'd be too far advanced for that"? The answer is, you don't know that. Who knows what they're using as a form of communication for one thing. They also aren't looking for "super" advanced civilizations, they're looking for any civilizations. Granted, they should expand their listening capability for more exotic forms but , you have to start with something. Assuming that other civilizations have sent space probes out to explore their part of the galaxy we could pick up a signal from one of them. And, they should be doing that which they aren't, by the way.
I just think that the rift between SETI and UFO believers is silly. Nick hope once said "you're both looking for the same thing in different ways". Who's to say that trying to photograph paranormal phenomena makes any sense if you want to use that kind of logic.
By the way I sent a message to SETI on Facebook saying the same kind of thing from a different perspective.

i agree in a way but SETI could use other forms of communication to seek out evidence i find there lack of open mindedness far to negative and in my opinion they appear arrogant to people who think outside the box.i find that they ain't doing enough and i find it laughable that there backward way of thinking keeps them moving

 

[Mulvaney]

I still find it odd that you could have two drastically different tellings of the same event by first hand witnesses.

There is an inherent problem with first hand witnesses - particularly in a case like Roswell. It seems unlikely we will ever know more about the events there than we do now, unless some genuine evidence emerges or classified data is released that satisfies Stan and other researchers. There is very little that can be cleared up, so we are left with people trying to hang on to their position or make up new things out of Kodachrome. I suppose talking about radar is as much of a response as could be given.

 

[Sub-light]

i agree in a way but SETI could use other forms of communication to seek out evidence i find there lack of open mindedness far to negative and in my opinion they appear arrogant to people who think outside the box.i find that they ain't doing enough and i find it laughable that there backward way of thinking keeps them moving

Yeah I totally agree. It's like their almost there but there is much more they could be doing. Not only should they develop a more advanced search protocols but, also a project like that needs to get off planet. Maybe some of the recent discoveries made from the Kepler telescope will motivate people to take searching for ET Intelligence more seriously? I also agree that they need to check their attitudes. They act way to elite for their own good.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Stanton has been one of my favorite researchers since the 70's. But it seems like no matter how valid & watertight I think a researcher is, they always believe in a far fetched case or two. It's interesting to keep in mind no matter how intelligent & well spoken Stanton is on the subject, he full on believes the Flatwoods Monster case.

Really?? Hmmmm.....

 

[wwkirk]

Stanton has been one of my favorite researchers since the 70's. But it seems like no matter how valid & watertight I think a researcher is, they always believe in a far fetched case or two. It's interesting to keep in mind no matter how intelligent & well spoken Stanton is on the subject, he full on believes the Flatwoods Monster case.

Really?? Hmmmm.....

The name Flatwoods Monster is a misnomer. It wasn't a monster. It was either a robot or an entity in some sort of spacesuit. It was witnessed by several people.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

The name Flatwoods Monster is a misnomer. It wasn't a monster. It was either a robot or an entity in some sort of spacesuit. It was witnessed by several people.

I know that. I've read plenty about it and have listened to Frank Feschino countless times tell about it. With all that, the entire thing is ridiculous.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

There is an inherent problem with first hand witnesses - particularly in a case like Roswell. It seems unlikely we will ever know more about the events there than we do now, unless some genuine evidence emerges or classified data is released that satisfies Stan and other researchers. There is very little that can be cleared up, so we are left with people trying to hang on to their position or make up new things out of Kodachrome. I suppose talking about radar is as much of a response as could be given.

If anybody has a link to what I'm going to talk about, please post it;

Here's why first hand witnesses suck. There was a special/documentary on TV about Roswell and as an experiment, some researchers took various people on a walk thru tour of the desert. Not known to the people taking the tour, it was set up so that there were military MP's, yellow tape, crash debris in the desert. The people giving the tour acted as if they didn't know what was going on and they should "stay away".

Anyways, one month later the people that had a view from only 20 ft away of the various scenes of the "crash" were interviewed to see what they recalled. What a fiasco. As the person was giving their answer to say like "....there were 2 soldiers with guns..." they would show the actual hand held footage and you could see like 4 soldiers, etc.

The examples I give aren't exact but the point is that their recall was shoddy at best. And this was for something that was seen at point blank range in the middle of the day only 30 days prior. Imagine trying to ask people to recall something that happend 10, 20, 30 years ago that they didn't have a clear view of in the first place.

This is why I give about 5% credence to "first hand witness/eye witness" testimony. I've seen other examples of this. Probably even worse is the college instructor who is "mugged" in front of her entire class (this was set up of course but unbeknownst to the students). When they interviewed the students privately to get a description you got everything from he was "white, black, hispanic, 5' 7", 6', 6' 5", blonde hair, brown hair, black hair, straight hair, curly hair, t-shirt, blue jacket, black jacket, red jacket, blah blah etc. etc." It was a real eye opener for me. They all witnessed the "mugging" from point blank range yet gave all these different descriptions of the perpetrator. After I saw that one I wondered "how many people have been put to death by eye witness testimony?"

Bottom line is I put zero credence in anything that happened in Roswell and believe it was a weather balloon/project mogul.

PS - what about the material that Jesse Marcel Sr. says they tried burning (would not burn), tried bending (would not bend), tried denting with a sledge hammer (would not dent)? Seems like if that was valid to me then that would wipe out the Mogul/balloon theory.

 

[Azz7092]

I'm just sick of hearing about Roswell to be honest

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I'm just sick of hearing about Roswell to be honest

Me too. It's pointless. I just can't believe how much credibility get's put into "first hand witness" testimony when in just the two examples I cited it's really a complete disaster and flawed.

 

[Wade]

If surveillance equipment has never caught an abduction being played out because the aliens can telepathically sense there is a trap of sorts to be sprung I would suggest they are capable of telepathically abducting their victims as well, thus rendering any use of cameras moot.

My opinion though is that in many cases it's just a bad dream

 

[Creepy Green Light]

If surveillance equipment has never caught an abduction being played out because the aliens can telepathically sense there is a trap of sorts to be sprung I would suggest there are capable of telepathically abducting their victims as well, thus rendering any use of cameras moot.

My opinion though is that in many cases it's just a bad dream

The slickest aliens in the universe must be behind the Linda Cortile abductions. The 8.4 million people of NYC (and all the cameras) never managed to capture any flying saucers tractor beaming a woman out of her high rise apartment building

 

[Wade]

I didn't even realize until at the very end of this week's show that I had managed to post so many times in this forum, although I'll be the first to admit that many of the posts have little to no substance to them. Be that as it may for the record in lieu of a gold stamp when I get to 5k I'll take a cookie instead.

 

[Standanista]

Whatever it was that crashed, the military picked it up and took it away, so somebody does know, and I think that's often forgotten. The folk who know are professional, connected to the military/government, and are pledged to secrecy on this issue just like they are on thousands of others.

I work in railways (railroads). We don't get many flying saucers down the tracks but we do deal with a large amount of information which is not in the public domain either because it's plain dull and non-controversial but just non-public, or it's commercially sensitive, or in some cases it does have genuine safety/security implications (e.g. signalling software or emergency preparedness for terrorist attacks). What we also have in railways is a big amateur fan club who buy books, go to shows and events, fill up forums with chit chat and can be spotted outside the boundary fence of our premises taking notes and photographs. They are mostly harmless but occasionally a pain in the posterior should they put themselves or our operations at risk by getting too close to what we do for a living. I see a strong parallel with ufology.

I don't see any good reason why the military should spill the beans on Roswell while ever keeping it classified serves a purpose, just like I wouldn't let Ernie stood on the end of platform 1 at Doncaster with his notebook drive one of my trains. I can see plenty of very terrestrial reasons why the U.S. military would still not release information on the Roswell incident:

• It was a secret high-altitude balloon for detecting Soviet nuclear tests
• A nuclear bomb and its parachute fell off an aircraft from the nearby base
• It was secret German WWII hi-tech under test
• It was something even more mundane and equally terrestrial but even today it makes a great PsyOps story

None of the above involves joyriding spider people from Zeta Reticuli, in a flying saucer which could withstand the electromagnetic radiation of deep space but not apparently 1940s-tech radar. I leave the gentle reader to apply Occam's razor to all the above.

The 70-year-old witness trail still followed by the UFO equivalent of trainspotters is now stone cold. The case is kept alive by the UFO industry because it's become showbusiness and folk make a living off it. It would not have reared its head at all, IMHO, without the MJ-12 saga popping up decades after the event, and the provenance of those documents is shady at best.

Fair play to Stanton and company because life would be far duller without entertainment, but what they're providing is a long way short of serious, objective, self-critical research. We heard that again on Sunday. The whole field needs a shake-up and reboot. I like what Chris is doing with his camera project. Beyond that, I think there are huge opportunities in web science, big data and consciousness research, and that's where the field needs to go.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Whatever it was that crashed, the military picked it up and took it away, so somebody does know, and I think that's often forgotten. The folk who know are professional, connected to the military/government, and are pledged to secrecy on this issue just like they are on thousands of others.

I work in railways (railroads). We don't get many flying saucers down the tracks but we do deal with a large amount of information which is not in the public domain either because it's plain dull and non-controversial but just non-public, or it's commercially sensitive, or in some cases it does have genuine safety/security implications (e.g. signalling software or emergency preparedness for terrorist attacks). What we also have in railways is a big amateur fan club who buy books, go to shows and events, fill up forums with chit chat and can be spotted outside the boundary fence of our premises taking notes and photographs. They are mostly harmless but occasionally a pain in the posterior should they put themselves or our operations at risk by getting too close to what we do for a living. I see a strong parallel with ufology.

I don't see any good reason why the military should spill the beans on Roswell while ever keeping it classified serves a purpose, just like I wouldn't let Ernie stood on the end of platform 1 at Doncaster with his notebook drive one of my trains. I can see plenty of very terrestrial reasons why the U.S. military would still not release information on the Roswell incident:

• It was a secret high-altitude balloon for detecting Soviet nuclear tests
• A nuclear bomb and its parachute fell off an aircraft from the nearby base
• It was secret German WWII hi-tech under test
• It was something even more mundane and equally terrestrial but even today it makes a great PsyOps story

None of the above involves joyriding spider people from Zeta Reticuli, in a flying saucer which could withstand the electromagnetic radiation of deep space but not apparently 1940s-tech radar. I leave the gentle reader to apply Occam's razor to all the above.

The 70-year-old witness trail still followed by the UFO equivalent of trainspotters is now stone cold. The case is kept alive by the UFO industry because it's become showbusiness and folk make a living off it. It would not have reared its head at all, IMHO, without the MJ-12 saga popping up decades after the event, and the provenance of those documents is shady at best.

Fair play to Stanton and company because life would be far duller without entertainment, but what they're providing is a long way short of serious, objective, self-critical research. We heard that again on Sunday. The whole field needs a shake-up and reboot. I like what Chris is doing with his camera project. Beyond that, I think there are huge opportunities in web science, big data and consciousness research, and that's where the field needs to go.

I am an ex U.S. Navy combat aircrewman w/ a SECRET clearance and I 100% agree. Well put.