Paging Derek Bartholomaus...This IS Amazing

[Brian Now]

That was simply amazing. So, if this guy taught others, would it follow that there are others that can manifest this level of energy on demand?

From the two books that Danaos wrote about studying with Chang, I don't think it was clear he reached that level.
But the books are full of that old, tired attitude..."look what I can do! But I can't teach you because the world isn't ready for it...but keep looking at me!". Chang's abilities notwithstanding, this is what I got from the books.

 

[derekcbart]

Hi there.

I've been offline for a few days and I just noticed this thread addressed to me, so I'm sorry for the delay in responding.

Jeremy, it is a very cool video, but it also shows the reasons why magicians, or people familiar with stage magic, should be part of paranormal investigations.

Obviously, I can only comment on the video itself since I have not met the individual in question. Here are some observations in no particular order.

It should be noted that "Chi" does not have any scientific evidence of existing: http://skepdic.com/chi.html Correspondingly, techniques such as acupuncture which involve the manipulation of chi have not been shown to have any medical or healing ability outside of the placebo effect: http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html http://www.badscience.net/?p=540

Apparently, the acupuncturist's treatment did not help the reporter's eye infection since his later interview shows him to now be wearing an eyepatch where he didn't earlier in the piece.

Now, I cannot say that this is exactly what the practitioner was doing, but "body electricity" and lighting things on fire without matches are well established street magic tricks.

Here is a good video demonstrating "Electric Touch":
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0DcCVjg2iw&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0DcCVjg2iw&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

And here is where you can purchase the trick: http://www.magicproshop.com/electric-touch-yigal-mesika-and-zeev-fleischman-trick-p-9082.html

Here is a good video demonstrating the "Flare Magic Trick":
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PL4tAzvnyFM&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PL4tAzvnyFM&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

And here is where you can purchase the trick: http://www.magicproshop.com/flare-alpha-magic-trick-p-10137.html

Again, this does not mean that this person does not have paranormal abilities, but the abilities demonstrated can all be done by magicians.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Derek.
There seems to be a world of difference between the guy who touches people, fingertip to fingertip in a kind of one-off only touch, versus the healer who grabs hold of a person and creates an uncontrolled convulsive effect to that person. The healer also gets people to place their hands on his abdomen where initially there is no effect (unlike the fingertip bloke where there is an immediate reaction) and then the subject feels the effect of the "chi", some seconds later unlike the immediate reaction in the magic trick.
The finger tip person also appears to rub his hands together before touching and i cannot recall the healer doing the same in the video supplied.

Does the electric touch magic trick allow you to light up an LED?
Does the magician continually have to rub his hands together to make the trick work?
Is it some kind of solution with magnetic filings or shavings mixed in so as when the hands are rubbed together it creates some kind of electrical current?
Are the magicians allowed to tell us the answers to these questions or if they tell us then they would have to kill us?(I choose being sawn in half!)
Does the healer have a mail order subscription to the www.magicproshop.com?

These, of course, are questions that would have been asked had a magician been present at the testing as only magicians can pick up if a person is faking.
It is all to easy to de-bunk these people from thousands of miles away via an out of sync youtube video, using the premise that because there is a magic trick mildly similar to the effect shown.
And just because science has not been able to determine the validity of "chi" does not mean that chi does not exist. All it means is that science has not been able to come up with a valid method of measuring it or any other paranormal activity.
To put your faith in science to solve all mysteries is as bad as putting yourr faith in religions to prove that there is a god.

 

[Brian Now]

Correspondingly, techniques such as acupuncture which involve the manipulation of chi have not been shown to have any medical or healing ability outside of the placebo effect: http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html http://www.badscience.net/?p=540

The story on acupuncture is much more complicated than that skepdic article offers (have you read what they wrote on UFOs?). It's available in all major hospitals in Houston, just to name one major city, including MD Anderson Cancer Center (still ranked #1 in US) where it can be used for easing nausea during chemo. The question is still how it works. Research is going on all the time.

I tend to believe this John Chang guy for the most part, but lighting the paper on fire could be easily faked (not sure about shocking someone with your stomach though). I just get sick of this idea that the world isn't ready to know about this stuff. We humans might not be the agitated lot we are if we knew for certain there was more out there.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Yes i have to agree. All of that stuff could be faked although it doesn't mean that it was.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Derek strikes me as not convinced, which is different than being convinced it isn't real. He'll correct me if I'm wrong I hope. The possibility of fakery makes it inconclusive to some, including myself, outside of controlled and repeated experimentation.

 

[derekcbart]

I have no idea how the "electric touch" trick is done. I'm not a magician, but I have heard about the electric touch trick before and it does replicate most of what is shown in the original video. As far as asking if the "healer" had a mail order subscription to MagicProShop, well, that is a bit like the Meier believers asking me to prove that Meier read the newspapers that provided the same astronomical results that his "predictions" did. It is non-sensical. As I said originally, I can neither prove nor disprove the claims made in the healer's video because I was not there to examine him first hand. All I can do is suggest alternatives that can replicate the results in a non-paranormal manner. This does not mean that he is not producing paranormal abilities, only that the abilities can also be achieved through non-paranormal means. That is all I can really do when looking at an "out of synch YouTube video from thousands of miles away".

As far as acupuncture goes, here is a more detailed analysis of it: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html

 

[The Pair of Cats]

I have no idea how the "electric touch" trick is done. I'm not a magician, but I have heard about the electric touch trick before and it does replicate most of what is shown in the original video. As far as asking if the "healer" had a mail order subscription to MagicProShop, well, that is a bit like the Meier believers asking me to prove that Meier read the newspapers that provided the same astronomical results that his "predictions" did. It is non-sensical. As I said originally, I can neither prove nor disprove the claims made in the healer's video because I was not there to examine him first hand. All I can do is suggest alternatives that can replicate the results in a non-paranormal manner. This does not mean that he is not producing paranormal abilities, only that the abilities can also be achieved through non-paranormal means. That is all I can really do when looking at an "out of synch YouTube video from thousands of miles away".

As far as acupuncture goes, here is a more detailed analysis of it: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/acu.html

Well you presented the video with the magic trick saying "thats why a magician needs to be present when examining these people", making it appear that you had some knowledge of magic and trickery. Sorry but it seemed like you might have been an magician of sorts. Indeed why don't you research how the magic trick is done and then see if it was possible that the healer could have been using those methods! Isn't that what a true skeptic would do?
You need to present alternatives that properly reproduce the results shown not magic tricks from a heavily edited video that only show somebody touching fingertips.
It is typical of de-bunkers that they will automatically think there is fakery involved and thereby produce half arsed reproductions of the events to show that they can be replicated. The moment i saw the dude (in your video) rub his hands together spelt magic trick to me. I get the same result walking around with rubber soled shoes on carpet and giving off static electric shocks if i touch someone or some things, not send people into convulsive throes. What the healer was doing was for more interesting and intense than the magic trick.
Get us a real example.
You were suggesting in a backhand sort of way that maybe the healer is using fakery and you used the magic trick as an example of how he could of staged it. My mention of MagicPRoShop was facetious and intended to mean , if he was faking it, what was he using to do that? I am not expecting that you would know that answer rather i pose it as something to be researched.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Anyone here seen that Russian superman on Sightings? He does some amazing stuff too, including shooting electricity from his fingers. He claims he got his powers after a close encounter.

I haven't watch all this vid yet. It was loading reaaaalll slow.

Is this the guy you are talking about, Packrat?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=B-gXCOOG_ig

Some years ago I saw this guy, Valery Laverinyenko (spelling?) on a British show called, i think, "The paranormal with Paul Mckenna" where he appeared live on the show and performed some of the feats you see on this vid including the "chi" style effect on a member of the audience selected by Paul Mckenna. Paul McKenna, i believe is a magician but performs mainly as a hypnotist and motivator these days.

 

[digigeek]

How do you like them apples?

Apples? Is that what they're calling incoherent rambling these days? Dude, I did not understand a word of what you just uttered.

I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

 

[Aaron LeClair]

The Pair of Cats/Phil, yes that's him. Thanks so much for posting. I was unable to find any vids on him.