Patterson BF Film Proven to be a HOAX?!

[wwkirk]

Loren Coleman's idea is that it will take a woman to find Bigfoot. He says they can smell males and the scent scares them off.

Bigfoots are apparently bear sized, so if bears can find enough food, why not them?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

That is a valid counter arguement but I would just say that I think bears often struggle after hibernation, food is scarce as hell, and bigfoot would be even more of a drain on resources.
I suppose if bigfoot is willing to eat about anything and especially if he has the ability to digest cellulose (this allows plant-eating animals to process things like grass, which humans cannot do).

I think there is something to the bigfoot phenomenon, it is world-wide and there are so many accounts for reputable people. It is not like nature could not allow such a creature, it is not a magical creature.
I think the food situation is just not easy to swallow, but certainly remains within the realms of possibility. Because there are other weird things reported that fall under the 'paranormal' banner and I don't believe they are all inventions or mistakes - it would make more sense to me if there is some paranormal explanation for all these things, rather than them all being some completely hidden part of our real world.

 

[pixelsmith]

huh? is Lauren implying all bigfoots are male? how does that work?

 

[wwkirk]

huh? is Lauren implying all bigfoots are male? how does that work?

He never suggested they were all male. Maybe the females are scared off by human males too. I've read that chimpanzees can tell the difference between men and women and are not scared by women.

 

[wwkirk]

That is a valid counter arguement but I would just say that I think bears often struggle after hibernation, food is scarce as hell, and bigfoot would be even more of a drain on resources.
I suppose if bigfoot is willing to eat about anything and especially if he has the ability to digest cellulose (this allows plant-eating animals to process things like grass, which humans cannot do).

I think there is something to the bigfoot phenomenon, it is world-wide and there are so many accounts for reputable people. It is not like nature could not allow such a creature, it is not a magical creature.
I think the food situation is just not easy to swallow, but certainly remains within the realms of possibility. Because there are other weird things reported that fall under the 'paranormal' banner and I don't believe they are all inventions or mistakes - it would make more sense to me if there is some paranormal explanation for all these things, rather than them all being some completely hidden part of our real world.

Just to continue this line of thought. If Bigfoot is a natural creature, the it has always been part of the food chain. The scarcity faced by awakening bears would then be the result, partially, of the Bigfoot eating all along. They would be factored in from the start.

For all that, I don't rule out the possibility that Bigfoot slips into this realm from time to time from somewhere else.

 

[pixelsmith]

even tho new species are discovered everyday, i seriously doubt there is a bigfoot anywhere in the world.

 

[wwkirk]

even tho new species are discovered everyday, i seriously doubt there is a bigfoot anywhere in the world.

Then what do people see, assuming they are not lying. Bears? Or are you angling for an inter-dimensional theory?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Something I admit that I learned from listening to the Paracast is that when questioning anything, it makes sense to question motivations.

If bigfoot exists most of the time in another dimension or something other than this world, I wonder for what reason would bigfoot cross over to our world? Bigfoot does not seem to court attention, quite the opposite. I doubt he comes for a holiday or the great forest food!
So why would a bigfoot creature come to our world? Mind you, that can be said about many paranormal creatures.
They all seem to appear for short times and disappear again soon after appearing. Perhaps they don't have a choice, crossing over is an occupational hazard, something they have no control over and just have to endure until it is over.
But then again, reports of these bigfoot-type creatures in the Dagestan area, in particular of one female bigfoot being kept and 'married', if that's even possible, and she bore children that were half human, half bigfoot. These reports seem to indicate that their presence in this world is as solid as our own, that they are not fleeting visitors.
But then again again again, (!) like with UFOs, maybe some are real creatures in this world, some are fleeting interdimensional visitors and some are manifestations of a malevolent entity, a' la Skinwalker Ranch.
Maybe there is more than one explanation for bigfoot just as some people are coming to believe there may be several different sources for UFOs?

 

[wwkirk]

Pardon the expression, but I would be goggsmacked to learn that a female Bigfoot had been married and bore children. If that were true, then all we have to do to solve the mystery of Bigfoot is find the descendents and test them.

 

[Brad]

Loren Coleman's idea is that it will take a woman to find Bigfoot. He says they can smell males and the scent scares them off.

Bigfoots are apparently bear sized, so if bears can find enough food, why not them?

That's an interesting thought about human males, I must say.

My thoughts on the matter are this: if there is a Sasquatch type animal in the Americas and it is a hominoid, then it must have migrated to the Americas the same way that humans did. That should narrow down the combination of time and geography to where they or their remains should also be. What's interesting to me is how the area of sightings seems to have expanded in the recent past.

I'm pretty unsure about the whole American Bigfoot idea. I'd like to see it be true, but I think it's more likely that the equivalent from the Himalayas and the region around there is more likely.

That is, unless it's some kind of paranormal-ish entity.

 

[SoCalGNX]

Sure, thousands of people hunt each year. Do many of them go very far into the woods? No. It is somewhat like fishing - people have their favorite spots they go to all the time. Does this necessarily put them into a place where there might be a Sasquatch? No. I have no doubt that Bigfoot is a primate of some kind. Whether they are more like apes or more like us remains to be seen but I think there will be some better evidence come along at some point. If you look at Ishi, who was the last member of one Indian tribe in Calfornia in the early 1900s, his tribe was able to evade detection for decades from white man. They were only accidently uncovered by a survey crew. When Bigfoot is found, it will likely be another accident.

 

[Wade]

This may have been posted here before elsewhere. I'm not going to vouch for the science behind it but I found it interesting and worth posting.

 

[boomerang]

I've never understood all the knicker twisting over the Patterson film. It's a man in big monkey suit, fer gosh sakes.

The only way Sasquatch could exist as a biological species would be as something kept mostly hidden and sheltered away by humans. And that's almost as woo as the non-biological hypotheses.

 

[Charlie Prime]

...the "missing" footprint should be UP and to the RIGHT of the print shown in the pic. We can't see where the next footprint would be because the right side of the picture is blocked by someone or something.

I have to agree with you. I was initially impressed by the blog poster, but now I think his case is not well made.

 

[not even wrong]

Sure, thousands of people hunt each year. Do many of them go very far into the woods? No. It is somewhat like fishing - people have their favorite spots they go to all the time. Does this necessarily put them into a place where there might be a Sasquatch? No. I have no doubt that Bigfoot is a primate of some kind. Whether they are more like apes or more like us remains to be seen but I think there will be some better evidence come along at some point. If you look at Ishi, who was the last member of one Indian tribe in Calfornia in the early 1900s, his tribe was able to evade detection for decades from white man. They were only accidently uncovered by a survey crew. When Bigfoot is found, it will likely be another accident.

Not sure I believe in bigfoot but this is spot on regarding hunting. I come from a rural area and everyone I know are avid hunters. I can count on one hand the number of people that have seen a bobcat in the wild and these are animals that are all over the place down here. Most people that hunt pick the same spot time after time and don't really go that far into the woods. They have to be able to get to/ drag out whatever they shoot so there are a lot of areas around here not even touched by humans. My family owns a tree farm and has 750 acres fenced in. They don't allow hunting on the property so it is literally overrun by deer. Yet when you go walking through the woods during the day you never see them. Again, not saying bigfoot is real but when people say that they can't be out there because we would have shot one they are really underestimating the vastness of the woods we have in North America.

 

[Constance]

That's an interesting thought about human males, I must say.

My thoughts on the matter are this: if there is a Sasquatch type animal in the Americas and it is a hominoid, then it must have migrated to the Americas the same way that humans did. That should narrow down the combination of time and geography to where they or their remains should also be. What's interesting to me is how the area of sightings seems to have expanded in the recent past.

That makes sense to me. I have not followed the BF subject enough to know how it became entangled with paranormal or ufo ideas. It's always seemed to me to be possible that hominid species other than the ones we've learned about in zoology could have survived in small numbers in wilderness areas of the planet.

I'm pretty unsure about the whole American Bigfoot idea. I'd like to see it be true, but I think it's more likely that the equivalent from the Himalayas and the region around there is more likely.

Why not both? If one such species has survived elsewhere, I think it increases the likelihood that more than one such species has survived in another region.

That is, unless it's some kind of paranormal-ish entity.

Can you or someone else link me to the best representation of that hypothesis? Thanks for your post.

 

[Constance]

He never suggested they were all male. Maybe the females are scared off by human males too. I've read that chimpanzees can tell the difference between men and women and are not scared by women.

That's very interesting information.

 

[Constance]

Some interesting stuff here

http://www.strangeark.com/craig/MMPapers_Aust.pdf

High Strangeness” in Yowie Reports pg64


Investigating Cryptic Hominids (Yowies) in the
Blue Mountains of New South Wales Page 52

Also very interesting: the article in that volume entitled "Would the Real Orang-Utan Please Stand Up and Be Counted? In Search of Unidentified Relic Hominoids in Southeast Asia" by Helmut Loofs-Wissowa.


A few extracts:

"The turmoils of World War II in Indochina, ushering in the so-called “French” Indochina War, had as a result the increase in information about Wildmen in the region. One of the earliest reports referring to such creatures in 1949, is contained in the book La Seconde Resistance: Vietnam 1965 (Paris, 1965) by Wilfred Burchett, the Australian journalist working behind Communist lines. There, we have a detailed account of how a Vietcong patrol composed of M’nong mountain tribesmen under the command of a Vietnamese officer, exploring the border area between Dak-Lak province in the Central Highlands of Vietnam and Cambodia, unexpectedly met some apemen. In the most inaccessible and totally uninhabited part of this area, the patrol discovered to their amazement numerous human-like footprints, heard a group of creatures fleeing through the dense bush while making noises like “twittering” and, after having followed one very visible track to a cave, discovered there a frightened male covered with black fur and having his long hair falling on his shoulders.

There was a kind of hearth and something like a bed made of leaves in the cave as well as animal bones and, significantly, sharp “cutting stones”. The M’nong tribesmen were less surprised by all this than the Vietnamese officer, for to them the existence of these hairy people was well known, although they themselves had never before met one of them directly face to face. As they could not communicate in any of the known dialects with the frightened creature – “twittering” was the only answer - it was decided to take him back to district headquarters in case somebody could talk to him there: to no avail. He was therefore to be escorted back to his home area but died on the way because of not accepting any food; he was buried at the side of the jungle path.

In an article on “Forestman” in Vietnam, published 1990 in Forestry Review (Hanoi), the late professor of zoology at Hanoi University, Dao Van Tien, proposed to reopen this burial so as to find at least the skeleton of this apeman but, half a century later, there are practically no chances to locate it again. At least this proposal shows how interested Vietnamese authorities have now become in Wildman research in their country. Burchett’s book thus seems to be the first one after Maltre's Les Jungles Moi to publicize the existence of Wildmen in the Vietnamese Highlands - but again only to a Francophone public; because, strangely enough, the entire chapter in which this significant passage occurs (Chap. X: "Du yeti aux elephants") is missing in the American edition of this book (Vietnam - Inside Story of the Guerilla War, New York, 1965), the supposedly original version, and all efforts to find out why have been in vain. It is, however, included in the Russian edition. . . ."


Another case is then presented of a different 'wildman' encountered later in the US war in Vietnam near the Laotian border, in which a US soldier's parachute became entangled in a tree:

"The other incident occurred in late 1968 in a mountain area near a village on the Song Giang (river) in northern Quang Binh province, North Vietnam, only about 100km north of the location of the first incident. This time it involved a shot-down US fighter plane the pilot of which had ejected and was found hanging by his parachute in a tree above the river, badly wounded but still conscious. Here again, two North Vietnamese militiamen were found dead near the foot of the tree without visible wounds. When the pilot, a young Lt-Col., was cut down, he still had the force to say that it was “a big gorilla” that had killed the two Vietnamese below."


In 1996, the author and a Japanese film crew reached the area of that second sighting and interviewed local residents about their similar sightings:


“In order to ascertain the physical identity of the apeman we were looking for and of
which/whom we only had very rudimentary information (about 1.80m. tall, dark brown to
black fur with a reddish tinge, powerfully built with hardly any neck, hands going down to the knees), I had prepared a series of twelve pictures to choose from, to be submitted to anybody who had seen or heard of these creatures. They included photographs as well as drawings of the three great apes (gorilla, chimpanzee and orangutan) and reconstitution drawings of various prehistoric men, from Homo habilis to Homo erectus and beyond, including Alika Lindbergh’s drawing of the living Homo pongoides (Fig. 10). Upon showing these pictures to those who had assembled around us, asked to identify the feared Briau, everybody pointed to this latter drawing without hesitation after having carefully examined all the pictures spread out in front of them."


Loofs-Wissowa concludes the paper as follows:


". . . The conclusion seems therefore warranted that a creature very similar to or indeed identical with Homo pongoides, a relic Neanderthal known through the works by Heuvelmans from the mountains of Central Vietnam, also lived or is still living, in the mostly unexplored jungles across the border in Laos. For, while everybody agreed that Briau lived in caves in the nearby limestone mountains (Figs 16, 17) until the War and has not been seen since, it seems reasonable to assume that the bombing which destroyed his habitat, the local primary forest, did not necessarily kill every single Briau in it, so that some survivors could still be found in the uninhabited mountain area further to the north into which they retreated. This, incidentally, is precisely the mysterious jungle zone which recently yielded several hitherto unknown species of mammals, including the up to 100kg heavy Sao La! (Fig. 18). One only has to think back to the time after World War 2 to realise that even men (e.g. Japanese soldiers) can hide in such jungles (e.g. those of the Philippines) for many years without being detected. And what about the occasional “discovery” of an unknown tribe in New Guinea: they must have been there for centuries. Why should one thus deny the possibility of the survival of Wildmen in such unexplored or very little known areas (Figs 19, 20)?

If we now integrate these latest findings into the body of knowledge about unidentified hominoids in Southeast Asia elaborated over the last two centuries, we see a pattern emerging which, although not very clear and still in need of confirmation in certain details, allows us to draw some conclusions which surely will stand the test of time. These are, firstly, that we are dealing here not just with one kind or taxon of Wildman. (“Forestman” or whatever other names are locally in use) but with at least three different taxa. Secondly, that not all of these can strictly speaking be termed Wildman because at least one of them, the gigantic variety (i.e. those frightening up to 3m tall colossi reported from the Himalayas, China, Burma and the Indochinese Peninsula, the Malay Peninsula, the Philippines and even Australia), is clearly not a hominid but a bipedal pongid.

The other two or three taxa, including the man-sized Homo pongoides and smaller, 1.50m or only 1 m tall creatures, observed in the Highlands of the southern part of the Indochinese Peninsula, on Sumatra and again in Australia, are presumably hominids, the smallest one(s) to be likened to the various pygmy races of the species Homo sapiens. With regard to the relic Neanderthal Homo pongoides one may add that because of this taxon having been attested in Vietnam and Laos as well as in northern Pakistan (research by Jordi Magraner), we now not only know that Neanderthals expanded from West Asia eastward into Southeast Asia but also which way they took to go there. Thirdly, that there seems to be some variability with regard to colour of fur, size and other anatomical details even within these different taxa, again not unlike the non-uniformity which can easily be observed within any individual ethnic group of Homo sapiens. And fourthly, that all these different types and sub-types of relic hominoids spread together throughout entire Southeast Asia and even expanded into Australia, regardless of considerable climatic or topographical differences, now living everywhere side by side although there are of course certain areas where one or the other of them seem to have exclusive habitation rights.

To end, we may once again emphasize the important role Southeast Asia played and is still playing in Wildman research throughout the world, from Bontius and Linnaeus to Heuvelmans but also, alas, from Gmelin to Napier."

Note: there is much more to be learned of earlier hominid scholarship in this paper, which is fascinating to read and should be read as a whole.

The link again: http://www.strangeark.com/craig/MMPapers_Aust.pdf

 

[Han]

*warning some forum users may find some of the following images upsetting*

Bobcat fossil

Bobcat scat

Bobcat DNA

Bobcat claw marks

Bobcat footprints

Bobcat caught on trail cam

Stuffed Bobcat (after historic taxidermy)

9 Bobcat corpses (killed by hunters)

Bobcat killed on the road

VS

0 Bigfoot fossils
0 Bigfoot scat
0 Bigfoot DNA
some alleged Bigfoot Claw marks
some alleged Bigfoot Footprints
some alleged Bigfoot Trail cam pictures
0 Stuffed Bigfoot (historic taxidermy)
0 Bigfoot corpses (killed by hunters)
0 Bigfoot killed on the road

My opinion is that Bigfoot is not a physical creature, and especially not a "Primate".
This does not mean that Bigfoot is not "real".

In a nutshell even the most elusive and shy animals e.g Bobcats are at the mercy of mother nature and therefore can and do succumb to death by natural causes, let alone human activity (poisoning, shooting, trapping or being run over etc) they also leave DNA and other physical evidence (hair, scat, claw marks, etc).
My firm belief is that if Bigfoot is an Animal then it would be exposed to the same perils as any other wild creature and would also inevitably leave trace evidence.

 

[not even wrong]

0 Bigfoot fossils
0 Bigfoot scat
0 Bigfoot DNA
some alleged Bigfoot Claw marks
some alleged Bigfoot Footprints
some alleged Bigfoot Trail cam pictures
0 Stuffed Bigfoot (historic taxidermy)
0 Bigfoot corpses (killed by hunters)
0 Bigfoot killed on the road

e.[/QUOTE]

I would like to correct the stuffed bigfoot. Rick Dyer has produced two, unfortunately the govt took them.