People at Glenn Beck's Rally

[stphrz]

I had already edited that part out because I realized I hadn't worded it exactly right. It wasn't that Democrats passed a bill, it's that they opposed a Fannie and Freddie reform bill in 2005. And well, that speaks volumes to me. Since links make ya' all tingly inside:

Hot Air t get AIG right

And here's a google search string if you don't like that article (I simply picked the first result):

Google

I'm sure you can probably find a few articles in there that will bend it in the other direction, will argue that Dems' opposition to the bill was somehow a good thing. Like I said earlier, when it comes to politics you can find any interpretation on the web that you want to. But at the end of the day the reality is McCain foresaw the crisis coming, tried to do something about it, and Dems said "Fuck you!" and let it happen. But that wasn't the last middle finger McCain would get for his troubles. In 2008 the public echoed, "Fuck you, John!" by voting down the guy that tried to stop an economic disaster from occurring and voted in the guy that was one of the top campaign contribution recipients from Fannie and Freddie. But then again, Obama was promising to spend a lot more money than McCain was and if there's one thing Americans know it's that torching cash is really, really fun!

I can answer this. However, I kinda get the impression this thread is done for. I'll respond if you or anyone else wants me to.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I can answer this. However, I kinda get the impressision this thread is done for. I'll respond if you or anyone else wants me to.

Go for it. American politics are fascinating.

 

[stphrz]

Go for it. American politics are fascinating.

Alrighty then

Most of those "Fuck Yous" you mentioned came from Republicans.

Let's look at this going back a wee bit.
1. The Clinton administration asked Fannie Mae to expand mortgage loans to low and monderate income borrowers in 1999.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html

2. In 2000 antipredatory lending rules were enacted to prevent subprime loans from being credited toward affordable housing goals.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902626.html

3. In 2003, the Bush administration suggested sweeping reforms in the housing finance industry. These reforms were opposed by some Democrats most notably Barney Frank the highest ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. Note this was all just talk at this time because there was no legislation being introduced.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63

4. In 2004, the antipredatory lending rules enacted in 2000, were dropped.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902626.html

5. It wasn't until 2005 that the Republican controlled congress introduced any legistlation. The bill didn't make it out of committee to the Senate.
http://uspolitics.about.com/b/2008/...ed-about-financial-reform-but-did-nothing.htm

The links do give some support to your claims. McCain was a co-sponsor of the bill. Thing is, you ignore that the Republicans controlled the Senate in 2005. You ignore the House overwhelmingly passed their own regulatory bill (331 to 90) which lots of Democrats voted for. You also ignore the Democrats that also introduced reform bills of their own in the Senate. All told six reform bills on the subject were introduced in 2005. Just six. I do commend McCain and the others for recognizing a problem and wanting to fix it. My respect for him has increased a notch. I was unaware of this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

However, in 2005 times were good and all the regulatory stuff was just not a priority. There were a few on both sides in the Senate that wanted changes but the rest of them didn't seem all that interested. The Bush administration talked the talk but didn't walk the walk and the Senate dropped the ball. (Jeez how's that for overuse of cliches, heh) Your claims of Democratic obstructionism don't have much weight. Neither side did anything. The warnings for the most part fell on deaf ears.

Also, this crisis is not just a result of a failure to properly regulate Fannie and Freddy. The primary lenders were involved in their own risky schemes. Schemes they wouldn't have been allowed to engage in were it not for the dismantling of regulations under the Reagan administration with the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act in 1982.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garn–St._Germain_Depository_Institutions_Act#cite_note-0

Whew. Sorry to bury you in links but the facts of the matter are just not that simple.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Alrighty then

Most of those "Fuck Yous" you mentioned came from Republicans.

Let's look at this going back a wee bit.
1. The Clinton administration asked Fannie Mae to expand mortgage loans to low and monderate income borrowers in 1999.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html

2. In 2000 antipredatory lending rules were enacted to prevent subprime loans from being credited toward affordable housing goals.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902626.html

3. In 2003, the Bush administration suggested sweeping reforms in the housing finance industry. These reforms were opposed by some Democrats most notably Barney Frank the highest ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. Note this was all just talk at this time because there was no legislation being introduced.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63

4. In 2004, the antipredatory lending rules enacted in 2000, were dropped.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/09/AR2008060902626.html

5. It wasn't until 2005 that the Republican controlled congress introduced any legistlation. The bill didn't make it out of committee to the Senate.
http://uspolitics.about.com/b/2008/...ed-about-financial-reform-but-did-nothing.htm

The links do give some support to your claims. McCain was a co-sponsor of the bill. Thing is, you ignore that the Republicans controlled the Senate in 2005. You ignore the House overwhelmingly passed their own regulatory bill (331 to 90) which lots of Democrats voted for. You also ignore the Democrats that also introduced reform bills of their own in the Senate. All told six reform bills on the subject were introduced in 2005. Just six. I do commend McCain and the others for recognizing a problem and wanting to fix it. My respect for him has increased a notch. I was unaware of this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

However, in 2005 times were good and all the regulatory stuff was just not a priority. There were a few on both sides in the Senate that wanted changes but the rest of them didn't seem all that interested. The Bush administration talked the talk but didn't walk the walk and the Senate dropped the ball. (Jeez how's that for overuse of cliches, heh) Your claims of Democratic obstructionism don't have much weight. Neither side did anything. The warnings for the most part fell on deaf ears.

Also, this crisis is not just a result of a failure to properly regulate Fannie and Freddy. The primary lenders were involved in their own risky schemes. Schemes they wouldn't have been allowed to engage in were it not for the dismantling of regulations under the Reagan administration with the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act in 1982.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garn%E2%80%93St._Germain_Depository_Institutions_Act#cite_note-0

Whew. Sorry to bury you in links but the facts of the matter are just not that simple.

What I said wasn't inaccurate, you're simply adding a lot more details. It didn't matter that Republicans had control of the Senate. It didn't become law because Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee. Republicans calculated what the final vote would be and knew the bill had no chance because of the across-the-board opposition from Democrats (And a handful of Republicans. But most Republicans were for it) and because of that couldn't get the Senate to vote on the matter. And there might have been other bills in 2005 but the McCain bill was the only significant one. I applaud you for mentioning Democrats' opposition to Bush's fix in 2003, probably the only other significant fix ever proposed.