Phoenix Mars Probe Succeeds!

[Tony2013]

I didnt know that this would turn into an image analyst's battle royal.

It typically does here.

"My Photoshop is bigger than your Photoshop," and so on and so forth...

 

[fitzbew88]

You are saying that an individual can make a post on a 'paranormal' discussion forum and damage the reputation of an organisation like NASA. What planet are you on? Is it Mars?

Yes.

I'm on Earth.

Yes, I am saying that the government doesn't kill NASA conspiracy theorists. And to me, that sounds quite reasonable and rational.

I noticed you put 'NASA' in with 'Government' to strengthen your argument - I call that misdirection. Not very subtle though.

Not sure I follow you here. I'm not denying the gov't kills people. I'm denying that they kill NASA conspiracy theorists.

It might also be prudent to you to visit an attorney (or your parents) and try to reach some kind've determination of the difference between an "opinion" and an "allegation/accusation".

So, I can't express an opinion unless I can prove it in a court of law.

You can express any opinion you wish; you cannot mindlessly spew out allegations of criminal activity in public at least.

You can't say: "In my opinion, John painted his house to hide the fact that it the vinyl siding contained DNA from a murder he committed."

That's not an opinion, that's an allegation -- no matter how you preface it.

To me, this is an opinion: "In my opinion, we should try to find out why John painted his house."

 

[fitzbew88]

I guess what I would like for you to do is ask yourself "Is this really true? How do I know that it is?" before posting and if you find yourself struggling to answer these questions --- don't post.

I ask myself that question all the time - it's obvious that you don't and that's the difference between you and me. You don't question those in authority and that's dangerous. The apathetic deserve all the crap that the Government and the media feed them 24 by 7.

Well, Rick, with all sincerity you are not "questioning" anything --- you are proclaiming that it is true and then not backing it up.

There is plenty out there to question (from governments and wild-eyed forum posters) --- I have a fair share. Many will be posed to the gov't and some even to NASA.

Today, I choose to question you.

 

[BrandonD]

It typically does here.

"My Photoshop is bigger than your Photoshop," and so on and so forth...

Hey is your avatar from the old Aeon Flux cartoon? I used to watch that on Liquid Television when I was a kid, very cool show.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Today, I choose to question you.

Fine - you'll get lot's of speculation and further questions - no answers. That's what we do on here.

You were expecting something else?

 

[Rick Deckard]

Not sure I follow you here. I'm not denying the gov't kills people. I'm denying that they kill NASA conspiracy theorists.

While I'm not saying that NASA has killed anyone, you don't know for sure that is the case and you're in no position to 'deny' it.

 

[fitzbew88]

While I'm not saying that NASA has killed anyone, you don't know for sure that is the case and you're in no position to 'deny' it.

No, I deny any allegation that NASA (or my government) has committed murder by killing any NASA conspiracists and I deny that it ever will.

I don't know why you think I can't deny false charges.

Do you think it's ok to charge people with murder because one day they might?

 

[BrandonD]

No, I deny any allegation that NASA (or my government) has committed murder by killing any NASA conspiracists and I deny that it ever will.

Are you accusing NASA of being too cowardly to kill their opponents? You'd better watch it, most Americans consider that an insult.

 

[fitzbew88]

No, I deny any allegation that NASA (or my government) has committed murder by killing any NASA conspiracists and I deny that it ever will.

Are you accusing NASA of being too cowardly to kill their opponents? You'd better watch it, most Americans consider that an insult.

No. I am accusing NASA of keeping one foot firmly planted in reality.

 

[Ron Collins]

Let me get this straight....

1 -- NASA or other entities in the US government kill folks for showing, through images they make available to the public, that there is life on Mars.
2 -- There are at least a couple hundred of these folks at NASA that know that Mars is full of life and have conspired to keep it a secret.
3 -- They are keeping it secret because they think this might upset the world wide apple cart? (not sure about this one)

I just want to make sure I am getting this straight.

So, in plain english, why are we being intentionally lied to about life on mars be it past or present???

 

[Rick Deckard]

Let me get this straight....

1 -- NASA or other entities in the US government kill folks for showing, through images they make available to the public, that there is life on Mars.
2 -- There are at least a couple hundred of these folks at NASA that know that Mars is full of life and have conspired to keep it a secret.
3 -- They are keeping it secret because they think this might upset the world wide apple cart? (not sure about this one)

I just want to make sure I am getting this straight.

So, in plain english, why are we being intentionally lied to about life on mars be it past or present???

No - none of the above of is true.

 

[Rick Deckard]

While I'm not saying that NASA has killed anyone, you don't know for sure that is the case and you're in no position to 'deny' it.

No, I deny any allegation that NASA (or my government) has committed murder by killing any NASA conspiracists and I deny that it ever will.

I don't know why you think I can't deny false charges.

Do you think it's ok to charge people with murder because one day they might?

You win - I've been worn down by the tedium of it all. Your towering intellect is truly something to behold.

I can't promise that I won't make 'unfounded allegations' in the future though...

 

[Tony2013]

It typically does here.

"My Photoshop is bigger than your Photoshop," and so on and so forth...

Hey is your avatar from the old Aeon Flux cartoon? I used to watch that on Liquid Television when I was a kid, very cool show.

Indeed it is! You know they released an Aeon Flux 3-disc DVD set with all the episodes and shorts?

 

[Tony2013]

It seems like the same thing happened to this thread that happens to pretty much every thread on this board... it descends into a meaningless pissing match.

Can we make a new rule that you can't make an assertion, allegation or conjecture if you haven't seen any evidence for it? The BS-flinging stuff is getting really tiresome.

 

[Astroboy]

It seems like the same thing happened to this thread that happens to pretty much every thread on this board... it descends into a meaningless pissing match.

Can we make a new rule that you can't make an assertion, allegation or conjecture if you haven't seen any evidence for it? The BS-flinging stuff is getting really tiresome.

This is indeed getting tiresome.

I really don't about the color of the photos being manipulated or not. This doesn't prove anything. This ain't Earth. You can't expect colors that are indicative of life here also to be true on Mars so true colors don't help in anyway to prove or disprove life there. There are ecosystems here on Earth at the bottom of the oceans that aren't based on photosynthesis but work on a chemical cycle dependent on heat, water, and sulfur and as a result have a different color.

Why don't you all hold your breath until they conduct experiments that are actually testing for the existence of life, past or present? Or at least wait for the experiments to turn up negative before spouting conspiracy theories again.

 

[fitzbew88]

This is indeed getting tiresome.

I really don't about the color of the photos being manipulated or not. This doesn't prove anything.

In the case of this long thread, there was never any doubt that NASA manipulated images. That's a given and NASA has explained why many times.

The issue became the assertion that: Mars is teeming with life and earth-like and that NASA is manipulating images to cover it up. Later, the assertion was added that anyone who could prove it would be murdered by NASA.

Now ---- for me personally --- this went over the line. It was a hurtful nefarious damaging allegation that angered me. Right or wrong, that's how I felt. That fact that it came from an Admin only made it sting worse.

And eventually the truth came to light --- oddly, in another thread:

"...I have an idea that alleges that NASA is covering something up. Can I prove it? No. Did I say I could prove it? No. Do I care either way? Not really - how can I demonstrate otherwise? I can't. Do I find these ideas interesting? Yes, because I think it's healthy to explore alternative realities...."

Now in my own opinion: I don't think this is right. I don't think that it is ok to throw out wild accusations of murder and corruption and deceit especially when you don't have a shred of proof and don't even care if it is true. I do NOT think that is healthy. I do not think that is "healthy" exploration.

But Rick had a different opinion and acted accordingly; I felt that an allegation had been made ( an untruth ) that needed defense. And so here we are.

*****

How to deal with it?

I think the best way is through the Admins. When any thread starts getting uncomfortable, we should complain to the Admins and they should lock it. Perhaps they could allow each side of the argument to post one final time and then lock it. (Yes, in this case an Admin was involved which surely muddies the water.)

And we should all just try and tell the truth as best we know it.

 

[BrandonD]

How to deal with it?

I think the best way is through the Admins. When any thread starts getting uncomfortable, we should complain to the Admins and they should lock it. Perhaps they could allow each side of the argument to post one final time and then lock it. (Yes, in this case an Admin was involved which surely muddies the water.)

Sorry but that's just dumb and it won't ever happen.

A few questions:

-Do you seriously think that anything said on the paracast forum has destructive repercussions on the massive governmental organization known as NASA?

-Do you seriously think that anything said on this forum has ANY relevance outside this forum?

This type of thinking is like little kids at recess worrying that their discussion in the sandbox might get the principle of the school fired.

If one has the common sense to see that NOTHING said on this forum actually has any relevance outside this forum, then we come to the real crux of this issue: What is being said offends YOU.

If something offends you, then should we shut it down? Are *you* that important?

I'm sure every damn thread in this forum offends one person or another. Deal with it, people are going to say things you don't like and you can't shut them up.

Personal insults are another thing entirely, they have no relation to paranormal subjects and so they should be shut down because they are not paranormal- related. However, if you consider the idea that NASA is hiding something to be personally insulting, then we're going to require that you provide us with a driver's license showing us that your first name is NASA.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I think the best way is through the Admins. When any thread starts getting uncomfortable, we should complain to the Admins and they should lock it. Perhaps they could allow each side of the argument to post one final time and then lock it. (Yes, in this case an Admin was involved which surely muddies the water.)

And we should all just try and tell the truth as best we know it.

Whoa, I'll be working overtime then.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I know of some people who've joined this forum due to threads I've made. They came upon it via a search. In that way what we do effects things outside the forum. As well as the forums play a small role in aspects of the show's discussion.

There's a rippling effect that occurs with people. What two people discuss in a dark alley can have effects outside that alley.

But locking threads because someone calls someone a poopoo head, isn't high on my list of things to do. Why should people who "behave" have a thread in which they took part locked because of 1-2 people who use insults? A lot cannot be proven, and proof is in the eye of the beholder, so I don't see locking threads for that reason either. But in the end, it's up to Gene and David.

 

[fitzbew88]

How to deal with it?

I think the best way is through the Admins. When any thread starts getting uncomfortable, we should complain to the Admins and they should lock it. Perhaps they could allow each side of the argument to post one final time and then lock it. (Yes, in this case an Admin was involved which surely muddies the water.)

Sorry but that's just dumb and it won't ever happen.

Possibly dumb, yes. No, I don't think it will happen either. At last I don't think we have the resources for it.

A few questions:

-Do you seriously think that anything said on the paracast forum has destructive repercussions on the massive governmental organization known as NASA?

Yes, I believe it might.

-Do you seriously think that anything said on this forum has ANY relevance outside this forum?

Yes, I believe it might.

This type of thinking is like little kids at recess worrying that their discussion in the sandbox might get the principle of the school fired.

If you would permit me to extend your example: What if the president of the PTA overheard the kids discussing the fact that the Principal was lying to the school board, covering up his own corruption, and possibly murdering to cover his actions? I *believe* unexpected things might happen.

As a matter of fact, in my own life it seems there are ramifications for *everything*. Sometimes pleasant, sometimes unpleasant --- frequently unexpected.

Ramifications for both taking action and *not* taking action.

In this case, ramifications may affect not only NASA but anyone who may stumbles across this thread in Google in the future and just doesn't understand the dynamics of the discussion. Some seventh-grader doing a term paper on NASA and a link to this thread comes up? What will he take away from reading it?

We're only guessing.

If one has the common sense to see that NOTHING said on this forum actually has any relevance outside this forum, then we come to the real crux of this issue: What is being said offends YOU.

As I've said, you might be right about the former and I don't get your point about the latter. Yes, it offended me. So what?

If something offends you, then should we shut it down?

No no no. I was suggesting the possibility of closing threads if they have run their course or deteriorated into name-calling or just have become annoying to the community *collectively*. Nearly everything in the forums is offensive to somebody but the threads don't balloon into a hundred posts and spill over into the other threads.

Are *you* that important?

No.

I'm sure every damn thread in this forum offends one person or another. Deal with it, people are going to say things you don't like and you can't shut them up.

Personal insults are another thing entirely, they have no relation to paranormal subjects and so they should be shut down because they are not paranormal- related.

Agreed --- once a thread has degenerated into simply personal insults it is time to click the 'ole lock button.

I am guilty of some of this, and I regret it.

However, if you consider the idea that NASA is hiding something to be personally insulting, then we're going to require that you provide us with a driver's license showing us that your first name is NASA.

What is wrong with defending NASA? Can't I defend my country, my church, any organization that I support and admire? My company? My school? Each one of these is just a collection of people. I think we must be able to jump to the defense of anything that we feel deserves defense.