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Politics of Global Warming

Free episodes:

MSNBC: "Pope Francis to champion combating climate change: This is a fascinating story. “Since his first homily in 2013, Pope Francis has preached about the need to protect the earth and all of creation as part of a broad message on the environment. It has caused little controversy so far,” the Timeswrites. But now, as Francis prepares to deliver what is likely to be a highly influential encyclical this summer on environmental degradation and the effects of human-caused climate change on the poor, he is alarming some conservatives in the United States who are loath to see the Catholic Church reposition itself as a mighty voice in a cause they do not believe in.” And don’t forget that Pope Francis will be addressing Congress later this year. “‘I think Boehner was out of his mind to invite the pope to speak to Congress,’ said the Rev. Thomas Reese, an analyst at the National Catholic Reporter. ‘Can you imagine what the Republicans will do when he says, ‘You’ve got to do something about global warming’?” "

FORGIVE THEM, FATHER: As Pope Francis prepares to deliver a powerful message on climate change, deniers are beginning to realize they haven’t got a prayer.
LINK: Could Pope Francis actually depoliticize climate change by mixing it with religion?

TEXT: "This week, representatives of the Chicago-based Heartland Institute, perhaps the best-known and best-funded organization dedicated to denying the existence of anthropogenic climate change, have been in Rome, respectfully calling on the Holy Father. Their stated goal for the visit—in their own words, including exclamatory punctuation—has been “to inform Pope Francis of the truth about climate science: There is no global-warming crisis!”

"The timing of their trip, like that desperate-seeming exclamation point, is telling. At some point over the next two to three months, Pope Francis will be issuing a clerically significant form of papal missive known as an encyclical. For those whose Sunday-school transcripts weren’t good enough to get them into the College of Cardinals, an encyclical is a letter sent by the pope to Catholic bishops instructing them to take immediate action on a matter of church doctrine. Less formally, it can be thought of as a personal message from the pope to the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics, urging them to focus their spiritual energies on something the Church deems important.

"That’s why so many people have been buzzing about what’s coming. As only the second encyclical to be signed by the new pope since he took office in 2013—and the first that he has authored independently—this encyclical would be newsworthy no matter what it was about. But what makes it doubly so is its subject: climate change, and especially its devastating impact on global ecosystems. With more than a billion Catholics (and quite a few non-Catholics) hanging on his every word, Pope Francis will passionately make the humanitarian and spiritual case for acting on climate change—through, among other things, the conservation of resources, the pursuit of renewable energy, and the reduction of greenhouse gases.

"From a climate activist’s perspective, there can be little doubt that this encyclical will resonate. For one thing, you couldn’t ask for a more effective messenger to deliver this message. At the moment, Pope Francis is enjoying something like super-pope status, his every utterance making headlines and sparking conversation among Catholics and non-Catholics alike. And by rhetorically tying climate action to the Christian mandate to aid the afflicted and give comfort to the needy, he’ll be doing much more than merely acknowledging the severity of the problem. By virtue of his moral authority, the pope has the singular ability to mobilize people all over the globe to take whatever form of action they can. No other figure of our time can claim that degree of influence.

"But there’s another reason to be excited about this encyclical—one that has more to do with mass psychology than mass mobilization. As the pope will surely stress, his understanding of Christian ethics compels him to see climate change as a profoundly moral issue. Reinforcing the moral argument will be a theological one. Cardinal Peter Turkson, the Vatican official who has been helping the pope with early drafts, has made clear that Francis will be marrying the humanitarian impulse to the Biblical imperative of “creation care,” which holds that humans bear a special responsibility to be good stewards of the earth they have been given. As Turkson puts it: “To care for creation, to develop and live an integral ecology as the basis for development and peace in the world, is a fundamental Christian duty.”

"In the days and weeks surrounding the encyclical, religious people of all faiths will be asking themselves whether they find these arguments persuasive. Happily, in America this question has already been asked and answered by a number of major religious organizations and evangelical groups that are on record as both accepting the science of climate change and supporting action at the public-policy level. Nevertheless, many Americans who self-identify as religious and social conservatives, especially those in the subset of white evangelical Protestants (a powerful voting bloc in Republican politics), continue to cling stubbornly to the orthodoxy of climate denial. In a poll released last November by the Public Religion Research Institute, fewer than half of them were willing to link extreme weather events to climate change, whereas more than three-quarters thought these events were signs of the “end times” predicted in the Bible.

"Emory University political scientists Steven Webster and Alan Abramowitz believe they have identified a powerful cultural reflex that could help us to better understand the odd correlation between social conservatism and climate denial. According to Webster and Abramowitz’s forthcoming study, one of the strongest predictors of how an individual will vote in an election is a phenomenon they call “negative partisanship.Negative partisanship represents the triumph of antagonism over affiliation, contempt over community. As the political journalist Ezra Klein has noted, it’s why you’re “more likely to vote Democratic if you hate Republicans than if you love Democrats, and vice versa.”

"For many people on the cultural right, climate change has always felt like something that their perceived opposites on the ideological spectrum—liberal progressives and secular humanists, namely—have believed in and fought against. If Webster and Abramowitz are right, that may have been enough to make large numbers of religious conservatives recoil from the science on climate change and reject any messages about the need to reverse it. When your cultural identity depends on there being no overlap in the “Us vs. Them” Venn diagram you’ve drawn in your mind, you’re reluctant to acknowledge even a sliver of commonality.

"But this summer’s encyclical has the potential to shatter the illusion of an insuperable divide between conservative cultural values and belief in climate change. And that’s why those representatives from the Heartland Institute have been meeting with Vatican officials all week, quixotically trying to persuade them that Pope Francis has been terribly misinformed—even though he’s already witnessed, personally, the horrible human toll that climate change can take.

"The ambassadors of denial are nervous that the tone of our cultural conversation is about to shift. Their worst fear is that Francis might successfully disabuse religious conservatives of a longstanding and pernicious myth: that climate change should be thought of as a splinter issue, and that belief in climate science and support for environmental action signify membership in the “enemy camp.” So long as climate deniers can maintain the charade of Us vs. Them, their well-funded dissembling machine keeps on rolling. But if the Pope actually manages to bring people together—and so far his track record on that front is pretty good—the whole thing could fall apart."
 
Up until this recent Pope climate visit I thought he was making a difference. He still is, he is anti austerity, anti IMF, anti world banks, anti corruption.

With his climate approach he is seeking to help the worlds poor, I respect that, but his thinking has been co opted. The energy & economic policies of the ultra greens would be the ruin of the worlds poorest.

Economically the poor would once again be smashed as the price of keeping thier homes warm will be unaffordable. The price of food driven up by the use of bio fuels. Governments would have far less money for economic development as any building / infrastructure projects are shelved. The IMF would no longer grant loan applications for these projects as they are completely behind this doom agenda because they are set to massively invest in the renuewables industry.

Any accords signed would strong arm whole sovereign nations into a financial, political & technocratic global networks where agenda 21 measures would be enforced without the consent of the people.

The world would be ruled by Eco facist elites who would run things based on an antiquated Malthusian belief in humanity being a cancer.

The Pope does not understand the basic principles & neither do those pushing this alarm.

Whatever Tyger believes this will not happen because of people out there that stay vigilant & keep reminding the public that the claims made by these activist scientists have NEVER COME TO PASS because it's all based on a computer model that cannot ever be correct.

It's actually insane. One question, can anyone tell me here what the climate sensitivity actually is for CO2? The equation used for instance has 4 or 5 variables, each one believe it or not human beings are not able to measure!!! What is the climate sensitivity anyone?
 
I also think that MSNBC article is really over egging the pudding. The "global warming deniers" are not on the run, or concerned. Public polls over the last 10 years are crystal clear. The public simply don't buy the claims anymore, they can see the world for themselves.

But honestly my previous post is more important.
A. What is climate sensitivity to CO2
B. What evidence would convince you that the AGW hypothesis is wrong.

Mike
 
Actually Tyger, let's put our discussion in the following way. What would change your mind regarding the AGW hypothesis?

I also think that MSNBC article is really over egging the pudding. The "global warming deniers" are not on the run, or concerned. Public polls over the last 10 years are crystal clear. The public simply don't buy the claims anymore, they can see the world for themselves.

But honestly my previous post is more important.
A. What is climate sensitivity to CO2
B. What evidence would convince you that the AGW hypothesis is wrong.

Mike

Except for your posts being indicative of the general over-all 'gesture' around climate change for some people - and that's political, so it has a relevance to this thread - the rest of your posting content is in the wrong location. If you want a debate, choose one of the debate threads. This ain't one of them. See thread title.
 
Australia PM's adviser: climate change is UN hoax to create new world order: Maurice Newman, chairman of Tony Abbott’s business advisory council, says UN is using debunked climate change science to impose authoritarian rule
LINK: Australia PM's adviser: climate change is UN hoax to create new world order | Australia news | The Guardian

TEXT: "The Australian prime minister’schief business adviser has accused the United Nations of using debunked climate change science to lead a new world order – provocative claims made to coincide with a visit from the top UN climate negotiator. Christiana Figueres, who heads the UN framework convention on climate change, touring Australia this week, urged the country to move away from heavily polluting coal production. Under Tony Abbott’s leadership, Australia has been reluctant to engage in global climate change politics, unsuccessfully attempting to keep the issue off the agenda of the G20 leaders’ summit in Brisbane last year.

"Maurice Newman, the chairman of Abbott’s business advisory council and a climate change sceptic with a history of making provocative statements, said the UN was using false models showing sustained temperature increases to end democracy and impose authoritarian rule. “The real agenda is concentrated political authority,” Newman wrote in an opinion piece published in the Australian newspaper. “Global warming is the hook. It’s about a new world order under the control of the UN.. “It is opposed to capitalism and freedom and has made environmental catastrophism a household topic to achieve its objective.”

"Figueres used an address in Melbourne to urge Australia to move away from coal, the country’s second-largest export, as the world grapples with global warming. “Economic diversification will be a challenge that Australia faces,” she said. Abbott has described coal as “good for humanity” and the “foundation of prosperity” for the foreseeable future.

"Figueres also urged Australia to play a leading role at the climate summit in Paris in December, a call unlikely to be heeded given Abbott’s track record. At the Brisbane G20 meeting, he warned that the Paris summit would fail if world leaders decided to put cutting carbon emissions ahead of economic growth. At home, Abbott, who in 2009 said the science behind climate change was “crap”, repealed a tax on carbon pricing and abolished the independent Climate Commission advisory body.

"Asked on the Canberra leg of her trip if the politics around renewable energy was as toxic elsewhere in the world, Figueres said: “No. At the global level what we see is increased participation of renewables, increased investment in renewables, increased excitement about renewables.” Abbott’s office and the UN did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
 
Students praise UWA for ditching controversial $4m Bjorn Lomborg Consensus Centre think tank
LINK: Students praise UWA for ditching controversial $4m Bjorn Lomborg Consensus Centre think tank - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

TEXT: "Students at the University of Western Australia (UWA) say the decision to can controversial Danish academic Bjorn Lomborg's Australian Consensus Centre is a win for academic integrity and common sense. The Australian Consensus Centre was going to be set up with the help of a $4 million Federal Government grant, but University Vice Chancellor Paul Johnson last night said the proposed centre was untenable and lacked academic support.

"UWA student guild president Lizzy O'Shea said students were concerned about the impact the centre, inspired by self-proclaimed "sceptical environmentalist" Dr Lomborg, could have on the university's reputation. "It's a really good sign as far as community action goes that if enough people have mobilized against something, and don't support it, that people will change their minds," she said. "The fact that we had international partners saying they wanted to pull out because of the association. So the reputational damage was probably the main complaint. "There are a number of people who take issue with Lomborg's methodology, and with Lomborg's sort of research standing. "The example that I use is there was a unit at UWA that used to use Lomborg's book as an example of bad science, and what not to do for students, and so a primary concern was the fact that he would be allowed to be associated with UWA when we hold our first year students who are 17, right out of high school, to a higher standard than that."

"Education Minister Christopher Pyne has told newspaper journalists he is seeking legal advice about the university's decision to hand back the funding, but he said he would find another university to host the consensus centre. Mr Pyne on Friday tweeted that UWA's decision marked "a sad day for academic freedom". Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce said the decision did not give university students enough credit, to decide for themselves which facts are relevant. "I like an exciting world where you can hear challenging points of view, even if you disagree with them," he said. "Universities, they're supposed to be the crucible of allowing people to investigate and ponder an idea and come up with their own conclusions."

"Meanwhile, National Tertiary Education Union's WA division secretary, Gabe Gooding, said members would be relieved and rejected suggestions that Dr Lomborg's views were being censored. "Those people who were particularly supportive of it will be painting this as censorship but it's absolutely not censorship, it's about the academics being really concerned about academic standards and the integrity of the institution," Ms Gooding said. "It's never been about shutting down an alternative view."

"Labor's higher education spokesman Senator Kim Carr said the Government's support for the centre was politically motivated and the grant for the think tank was an inappropriate use of public money at a time when other universities and research institutes have had their budgets cut. "What this government has to understand is that the Australian research program is not the plaything of individual ministers, nor a slush fund for the Liberal Party," he said. "This is clearly not an appropriate way to fund research in Australia. "We need to protect the integrity of the research program to ensure that it is not subject to the political fortunes of individual ministers or the political prejudices of the Prime Minister." "

Amazon Blurb: "Bjørn Lomborg, a former member of Greenpeace, challenges widely held beliefs that the world environmental situation is getting worse and worse in his new book, The Skeptical Environmentalist.

"Using statistical information from internationally recognized research institutes, Lomborg systematically examines a range of major environmental issues that feature prominently in headline news around the world, including pollution, biodiversity, fear of chemicals, and the greenhouse effect, and documents that the world has actually improved. He supports his arguments with over 2500 footnotes, allowing readers to check his sources.

"Lomborg criticizes the way many environmental organizations make selective and misleading use of scientific evidence and argues that we are making decisions about the use of our limited resources based on inaccurate or incomplete information.

"Concluding that there are more reasons for optimism than pessimism, he stresses the need for clear-headed prioritization of resources to tackle real, not imagined, problems. The Skeptical Environmentalist offers readers a non-partisan evaluation that serves as a useful corrective to the more alarmist accounts favored by campaign groups and the media.

Bjørn Lomborg is an associate professor of statistics in the Department of Political Science at the University of Aarhus. When he started to investigate the statistics behind the current gloomy view of the environment, he was genuinely surprised. He published four lengthy articles in the leading Danish newspaper, including statistics documenting an ever-improving world, and unleashed the biggest post-war debate with more than 400 articles in all the major papers. Since then, Lomborg has been a frequent participant in the European debate on environmentalism on television, radio, and in newspapers."

Excellent Amazon Review to get a sense of the overall situation and for further reading (if one is so inclined) -
Lomborg has read through an impressive amount of scientific research and attempted to reach general conclusions about the state of the environment. Most of what he says in the book is true, but keep in mind that he has an agenda. He is trying to convince us not to worry so much about the environment. Whenever possible, he prefers to put a positive spin on the numbers.

Skip this book, and go straight to the online debates that followed. Specifically, what you want to read is Scientific American's angry 11 page reply to this book. Then read Lomborg's equally angry reply to Scientific American. You can find both of these on Google. Lomborg no longer posts Scientific American's original reply, but a group called Greenspirit has it up.

After you've done that, go to the Scientific American website and search for their follow up replies, which are in response to Lomborg's response to them.

If you read all of these, you'll have a pretty good idea of what the environmentalists and the anti-environmentalists agree on, and what they disagree on.

A lot of the debate boils down to "Is the glass half full, or half empty?"

In his book, Lomborg essentially said at one point, "The environmentalists lied about endangered species! Only 0.7% of species are expected to go extinct over the next 50 years."

Then Scientific American said, "Lomborg is trying to trick you! Thousands of species will go extinct over the next 50 years!"

But, if you kept reading the debates, eventually you learned that , since there are millions of species, the numbers Lomborg was using meant the same thing as Scientific American's numbers. The only difference was, Lomborg represented the numbers in a way designed to make them seem good, but Scientific American prefered to write them in the way that made them seem bad."
 
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An interesting question to posit here in the US where we are dealing with a Supreme Court ruling some years back that states that Corporations are Individuals that have the rights of an individual. That said - what about the Earth - is it an Individual? Does it have rights? We could take it even further - do animals have rights? do plants have rights? minerals?

Does the Earth Have Rights?

Hopes & Expectations Ahead of the Next Encyclical
LINK: Does the Earth Have Rights? | Commonweal Magazine

TEXT: "When Pope Francis issues his encyclical on the environment this spring or early summer, some American Catholics will welcome it—but only some. Broadly speaking, Catholic opinion on climate change matches the American political spectrum, and thus the polemics around this polarizing issue are Catholic polemics as well. As numerous recent articles make clear, Francis is concerned about global warning. Catholics who oppose policies meant to halt or ameliorate climate change—Catholic climate skeptics—grant the pope’s authority in the moral realm, but dispute his expertise in climate science. Some have not hesitated to call him out on his views, at times harshly. One called Francis imprudent and apocalyptic; another said he was “an ally of the far left,” a “Marxist” who has been “snookered” by climate-change ideologues.

"Ironically, Catholic foes of Francis’s probable environmental teaching find themselves in a position similar to that of a very different group: those who turned away from another encyclical, Humanae vitae, almost half a century ago. Most American Catholics, even if they accepted that encyclical’s prophetic criticism of sexual freedom in the West, evaded its strictures; adopting the mantra of William F. Buckley and Garry Wills, they whispered “mater, si; magistra no,” used birth control, and continued to receive Communion. Yet dissenting Catholics of the 1960s did not publicly deride the holy father, even when prominent theologians opposed the teaching. Lay Catholics in the twenty-first century, however, emboldened by electronic media, feel free to slam the pope.

"It seems clear that they are in the minority. As New Yorker writer Elizabeth Kolbert pointed out recently, while few in our country—of any political persuasion—are ready to accept the discipline required to slow climate change, most Americans do believe that the atmosphere is warming rapidly, and that we are already observing the consequences of this warming. A recent poll conducted jointly by the nonprofit Resources for the Future, Stanford University, and the New York Times demonstrates that large majorities of Democratic and independent voters, and even 41 percent of Republican voters, credit the scientific projections behind predictions of climate disaster and believe that government at various levels should address the problem. Catholics who dispute global warming, meanwhile, are so strongly opposed to Francis on this point that they are willing to insult him personally and even dispute papal authority itself.

"As for what the pope hopes to accomplish with his forthcoming teaching, the worldwide college of bishops formally constitutes the audience for an encyclical. Francis does not intend the document to address bishops alone, however, but Catholics worldwide—and more than Catholics. Indeed, he wants to speak to all human beings. He has already begun to do this by sharing his opinions on environmental degradation, and he will follow the encyclical with an autumn address to the United Nations General Assembly. Later, he will meet with other world religious leaders ahead of the UN Climate Conference in Paris in December—a conference aimed at producing a legally binding global agreement on climate.

"Francis is not the first pope to address the world at large; both Paul VI and John Paul II used their stature and influence to try to steer world opinion. But those earlier pontiffs usually weighed in on international political movements or crises, such as the nuclear-arms race. Francis, in effect, is taking on the entirety of the industrial revolution and the vast and increasingly concentrated wealth that has resulted from it.

"AND HERE THE Catholic tradition comes up against something very difficult. That tradition, as critics insist, is indeed ill equipped to deal with a problem that is simultaneously social/political and individual/moral. Yet these dimensions are intertwined in the matter of climate change, since all humans, not just corporations and governments, are implicated in the burning of fossil fuels and the resultant atmospheric changes. How to balance individual moral responsibility, described in the moral teachings of the church, against a general Catholic or human responsibility as developed in more than a century of modern Catholic social teaching?

"The ability to extract fossil fuels from the earth has granted developed nations rising life expectancies and levels of material comfort previously unknown to humanity. Now we discover that in burning these fuels we have altered the earth’s delicate atmosphere in various ways. Some of these changes are life-threatening: lengthy droughts that interrupt reliable harvests, rising oceans that may eventually inundate coastal cities. Such prospects have elicited a range of views. In This Changes Everything, Naomi Klein optimistically claims that climate change can provide an opportunity to reorganize human society for the better; Elizabeth Kolbert, on the other hand, has demonstrated that in order to be truly environmentally sustainable, electricity consumption would have to be reduced to shockingly low levels. Yet the kind of economic growth that sponsors our way of life depends upon increasing fossil-fuel consumption, not lessening it. We are in a bind. Clearly we are finding it difficult to muster the collective generosity toward future generations—our grandchildren—that can prevent them from suffering the effects of climate change.

"Here, many believe, Catholic social teaching has something to offer. One can argue that its preferential option for the poor extends to those future grandchildren of ours. Likewise, Catholic groups have invoked the principle of subsidiarity, which dictates that action in accordance with Catholic teaching take place at the most local level possible, to draw attention to the problem, especially in Hispanic Catholic communities here and in Latin America. And Catholic moral and social teaching can deal credibly with the worldview that contemporary science presupposes. This will surprise some. A climate scientist remarked to me, after a conference on climate change and the common good at the University of Notre Dame a few years ago, that he was pleasantly surprised to learn that the magisterium of the Catholic Church accepts the results of experimental science.

"In fact, contrary to such impressions, Catholic tradition has always possessed the resources to embrace science. Early Christian tradition made a promising start when it interpreted ancient stories of creation in a non-literal, yet theistic, account of the origin of the cosmos. And despite the development of a strain of theology marked by supernaturalism, the philosophical approach associated with Thomas Aquinas made it possible for Catholic teaching to accommodate and even sponsor scientific discoveries. Well before the waning of anti-modernism in the twentieth century and the decrees of Vatican II, Catholic teaching learned to accommodate evolution and scientific biblical inquiry, tempering its conservatism with an openness to progressive scholarship. The social encyclicals beginning with Leo XIII highlight this development; and though many critics of the church claim to discern an affinity between church teachings and fundamentalism’s rejection of such scientific bulwarks as evolution, the highest-level institutions of the church put the lie to such a connection.

"Francis came to the papacy armed with a powerful concern for the poor of the Third World, who stand to suffer most from climate calamity—whether those living in low-lying island nations like the Philippines, or climate refugees from Africa seeking surer food supplies. When he arrived at the Vatican he found it supplied not merely with a troublesome Curia, but also with scientific institutes. The scientists staffing these institutes know well that since 1950 there has been a sevenfold increase in urban population worldwide; that energy use has increased fivefold and fertilizer eightfold; that crops are menaced by depletion of fresh water and nutrients in the soil. They know that forests have been clear-cut and land degraded; that invasive animal species flourish everywhere, replacing natural predators; that the marine ecosystem is in danger; that species extinction is now accelerating at a shocking rate, damaging the diversity on which life on the planet depends.

"They are also aware of the possibility of drastic atmospheric warming—up to 6 degrees centigrade in the next century. And they understand that only an international effort with binding agreements can reverse current trends. Yet the sole international body currently capable of forging such agreements, the United Nations, is weak and divided. Its subsidiary body, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, has regularly issued reports on climate change for a quarter century, and yet little on the international level has been accomplished. Indeed, global fossil-fuel consumption is currently skyrocketing, aided by new extraction technologies. Politically, developing countries have shown themselves unwilling to refrain from building their own economies on the same fossil-fuel use that made first-world countries rich and comfortable.

"HOW WILL FRANCIS address a problem that is at once urgent and yet still only partially unobservable—a crisis unfolding slowly, over many decades? Certainly he will extend the teachings of his predecessors, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. In his 1990 World Day of Peace Message, John Paul lamented “the lack of respect for life evident in many of the patterns of environmental pollution,” deeming it “manifestly unjust that a privileged few should continue to accumulate excess goods, squandering available resources, while masses of people are living in conditions of misery at the very lowest level of subsistence.” Catholics, he said, were obliged to protect creation against “industrial waste, fossil fuels, and deforestation.” Benedict spoke even more often than John Paul about climate change, and, with his approval, the 2011 report of the Vatican Academy of Sciences urged “all people and nations to recognize the serious and potentially irreversible impacts of global warming caused by the anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases and other pollutants.”

"Francis is likely to repeat these exhortations while amplifying their urgency considerably. Judging from statements by his secretary of state, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, and by Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, chancellor of the academy that issued the 2011 report, the pope is likely to say that climate change cannot be solved by the free market. He has already criticized capitalism for encouraging consumerism and creating extremes of poverty and wealth. But he may go further now, and address our duty to other species and to the integrity of a creation that is losing many of those species. He may end up moving beyond traditional calls for good stewardship by acknowledging, at least implicitly, that nature itself has rights—rights that are being flagrantly violated by human beings. “We have, in a sense, lorded it over nature, over Sister Earth, over Mother Earth,” Pope Francis remarked to journalists recently. Was he really implying that created nature—the environment—has rights of its own? Such a view on the part of the pope would be a significant development in Catholic thinking about the inherent worth of creation apart from the humans who dominate it. We shall soon find out if he meant it."
Read the comments section after the article within the link and you will see the politics at work.
 
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Fair enough Tyger I will post questions on the correct forum as you are quite correct. I will just post news items here to cover the politics of it, that is a just topic in of itself.
 
The Climate Deception Dossiers

TEXT: "Published on Jul 14, 2015: Aaron Huertas, Union of Concerned Scientists, joins Thom.

"Thanks to a new report from the Union of Concerned Scientists - we know that the fossil fuel industry never believed the denial science that they've been funding for the last 30 years. The report shows that as early as 1981 - ExxonMobil was having internal discussions about the climate impacts of one particularly large extraction project. That's almost seven years before NASA scientist James Hansen testified about the threat of a warming world to Congress.

"And in 1995 - a memo circulated among companies that said that climate change is caused by burning their products - and that the relevant science is "well established and cannot be denied" So the industry knew that their actions were driving the planet to a crisis - and they did nothing to avoid it. And when scientists and the public cried out - they spread lies to cover their guilt. The simple fact is - we wouldn't be facing such a dire crisis if we had taken action when the companies first knew that burning fossil fuels drives climate change. But what happens now that we know that the companies lied to cover up their systematic abuse of our planet?"
 
"AND HERE THE Catholic tradition comes up against something very difficult. That tradition, as critics insist, is indeed ill equipped to deal with a problem that is simultaneously social/political and individual/moral. Yet these dimensions are intertwined in the matter of climate change, since all humans, not just corporations and governments, are implicated in the burning of fossil fuels and the resultant atmospheric changes. How to balance individual moral responsibility, described in the moral teachings of the church, against a general Catholic or human responsibility as developed in more than a century of modern Catholic social teaching?

IMO the popes input demonstrates yet again the core of the problem.

Its the same old symptom vs the cause problem.

We are talking about an organisation that forbids contraception, favouring "Growth" of its subscriber base.

Oh my! If I could speak to Pope Francis directly, I would say: “Really? You are in the Philippines urging people to deal with widespread poverty and you include in your talk an anti-contraception message? Really? Do you see no contradiction in those messages?”

Francis, contraception and climate change | National Catholic Reporter


contraception and climate change - Bing


The pope will apparently recommend reduction in the use of fossil fuels. Sure, yes, that will help and virtually everyone agrees that should be done. Of course, how to bring about this reduction in fossil fuels without adverse economic consequences is a subject of much debate, and here, apparently, the pope has nothing to offer but nostrums. Exhortations to lead a simpler life and a call for richer nations to assist poorer nations in the transition away from fossil fuels sound more like wishful thinking than practical solutions.
There is one very practical measure, immediately realizable and eminently feasible that is, as it were, staring the pope right in the face: The pope should not only end the Catholic Church's morally absurd and repugnant opposition to contraception, but should urge all families to engage in responsible family planning.
Reducing population growth would have a substantial positive effect on the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. One persuasive scientific analysis indicates that reducing population growth could help achieve 37 percent to 41 percent of the targeted reduction in emissions by the end of the century.

The Pope Needs to Change the Climate on Contraception | Ronald A. Lindsay
 
Radioactive Waste heating our Oceans
Of course there are many reasons to be concerned about radioactive waste. Maybe you will be lucky enough to have new technology address your children's mutations before they are born.

Cactus Dome in the Pacific is leaking radioactive material into the Pacific and affecting the water temperature which might soon melt the glaciers. The atomic testing in the French Polynesian Islands is not going away. Like the Energizer bunny it keeps on giving or going. There is nothing being done to stop the release of methane and nitrous oxide from the Tundra which alone can raise the water level enough to cause most humanity to have to move (Where?). I saw a TV show with a scientist talking about this occurring in this present decade.




"Lots of good thinking here. Maybe some day the US will admit they went the radioactive route for military reasons - rather than Thorium. Maybe the US is responsible along with their allies like Canada whose Chalk River site offered my father a job after the war and his time in Nuremberg.



Ufology said something which adds to a larger issue than Fukashima.




internationally approved nuclear waste dump site ( wherever that is ).



One such site was built while I lived in Vegas. They built it in Yucca Mountain. After the LA earthquake centered near Lake Arrowhead the foundation of my house had a crack. Yucca Mountain is closer to LA. The whole area has many fault lines, The different kind of earthquake that hit LA more directly and caused more damage due to underground cross currents of energy (I forget the terminology for this kind of earthquake.) was measured at less energy on the Richter Scale. It has less effect on me in Vegas than the above noted one. I was in the house when this one hit and it shook my house a little - Vegas is over 150 miles away.


Having discussed how to get rid of Nuclear waste most of my life, I know there is no easy answer. It was said by some in this thread that containers can be used. Be careful about that if you live near Utah where nerve gas canisters are eroding. I have suggested sending such things by spacecraft into our sun, but how does one get it close enough to combust without disintegrating and polluting a large area of our solar system. Maybe one of you people who talk to the Watchers can get them to help."




https://www.theparacast.com/forum/thr...e-earth.13805/
 
In short the pope has no moral authority to talk about climate change, His organisation has as a matter of policy the codification forbiding the practise of contraception, which is actually one of the better tools we have in dealing with the root cause.

His answer seems to be we should all live a bit simpler, consume a bit less. lower the quality of our lifestyles as a solution.

And again that mindset is actually part of the problem, in that its short termed thinking.

Take a cake, if there are 6 people at the party they get a slice X big each.
12 people and the slices are smaller
24, and they are smaller still

The cake is finite, yes everyone can do with less so everyone gets some, but there still comes a point where if shared equally amoung a large group of people the amount they each get is negligable.

The popes solution is for us all to take smaller slices, while we pile on more people, but eventually no matter how simply we are living there will still be too many people for the finite system to provide for.
 
. I have suggested sending such things by spacecraft into our sun, but how does one get it close enough to combust without disintegrating and polluting a large area of our solar system.

If we get the space elevator projects up and running that would be a viable solution, I dont see disintegration as an issue, since the cannisters and contents will have considerable momentum in addition to the gravitational effects from the sun itself.

Hopefully though the various fussion projects will pan out soon and we can use them instead.

High beta fusion reactor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A technology thats safer than fission, and cheaper than coal is what we need
 
Yes, I suppose that is true if the craft makes it close enough without being hit by debris. I guess the solar flares are not throwing off debris - or are they? Space elevators would take the cannisters close enough? I have not seen that.

As to energy sources - there are many cheaper than coal and safer than fission. Tesla - see Pine Gap. Cold fusion - see Mallove. Solar soon as well.
 
You were warned by one of your greatest statesmen, who could it see coming.

Eisenhower's Farewell Address to the Nation

Eisenhower’s true words still ring valid today, with the great global warming scam.


The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project funding, and the power of money is ever present – and is gravely to be regarded.

This post is bang on the money. That farewell address is commonly used to demonstrate the rise of the MIC. But what he saw most clearly was that if science was to rely purely on the funding of governments, then politics would ultimately rule over the results of said research.

Eisenhower absolutely nailed it and you see the results of this today. I collect a sort of digital scrap book of news items that appear every day in the media. Here is a list of some of the stories I have collected over the past week, only one worth any kind of scientific value, but bear in mind these stories are recycled daily, around the world in digital print and in newspapers, especially by the likes of the Guardian newspaper as they have taken the full zealot side of this debate. Just before I post these, there are those who think that this climate change issue is about clean air and pollution. Its not. What this is about is a left sided agenda where democracy is very slowly being eroded. The Paris treaty due to be signed in another attempt to subvert the western nations and to redistribute wealth.

They have traditionally kept the negotiating documents secret but these have been exposed by researchers and the reading is very grim indeed. The Copenhagen meeting back several years ago was essentially trying to setup 1,000 international interlocking bureaucracies which would control everything in our lives down to the amount of energy we could be expected to use.

Earth Headed for a Mini Ice Age - The only valid story. Russian scientists have been predicting this for years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11733369/Earth-heading-for-mini-ice-age-within-15-years.html

Another valid one
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516/The-fiddling-with-temperature-data-is-the-biggest-science-scandal-ever.html

Poor Ones
Climate Change could undermine health advances for the last 50 years
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/11692264/Climate-change-could-undermine-the-last-50-years-of-health-advances.html

Loafs of bread could become smaller because of climate change
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11690772/Latest-victim-of-global-warming-loaves-of-bread-will-be-smaller-in-future-warn-scientists.html

Polar Bears Eating Dolphins Because of…….climate Change
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/arctic/11670479/Polar-bears-have-started-eating-dolphins-due-to-climate-change.html

Air Travel could become longer due to climate change.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2015/07/13/study-climate-change-could-lengthen-the-flight-times-of-some-air-travel/

BBC Climate Non Story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33507462

Hot dog lovers beware
Global warming causing hot dogs to slip out of buns

Global Warming causes Sharks to Bite
http://www.newsmax.com/US/National-Geographic-Shark-Attacks/2015/07/01/id/653128/

Most of these stories are always led by the word "could". The reason is that they are using computer models to make estimations. The major point for me collect these is to reflect on the stupidity of so many of the papers being written, and the amount of scientists around the world who would lose their shirt should Global Warming be proven a scam, which it will be in my opinion. The recent exposure of data tampering is just the latest issue, because the last 20 years (between 18-20 depending on dataset) we have had a confirmed pause in warming, what the usual suspects have been doing is cleverly adjusting past temperatures to make todays appear warmer. The Global Warming Policy Foundation in the UK is currently investigating these data adjustments and when the report comes out, please forget that this is s sceptical group. If data tampering is found and clear, then the report will deserve reading regardless of the author.

My only comment in Pope Francis (who I have supported in many of his stances over the past year) is that he has been sold a lie. The measures these green ideologues wish to impose would damage the poor and he is only trying to follow what his advisors have told him. Who is the main advisor here?

Enter Hans Schellnhuber
This guy is a Malthusian fanatic and a complete eco nut. He is in James Hansen territory with his predictions (each one found false) and based on terribly shoddy science. I point to this article written about him and the kind of science he writes aabout even when writing in peer reviewed publications like the worlds premier journal Science (it is my belief that even this journal has gone off the deep end).
The Scientific Pantheist Who Advises Pope Francis | The Stream

With all the stories the would be sceptical thinking is overwhelmed with the force this is being pushed onto people with. He/She sees the multiple angles that this nonsense is coming at them from and basically thinks it is proven. It isn't and in time the whole thing will come crashing down.

Michael
 
Dear Michael

The journal Nature is definitely run for propaganda purposes. Their stance and cover ups in the Olduvai Gorge being run by Yale and the Leakey Gang is a major issue. They have also been part of the lies in Mexico regarding the Maya/Olmec. I know of many others and not just in the USA or on their own.

I trace these things to the era of Attorney-General Palmer who also brought us J.Edgar Hoover - nuff said I hope. Funding as you say is a key area of control. If they did not do these things the nations of the world would be made to disgorge their ill-gotten gains and hopefully disbanded. This goes back to the Treaty of Westphalia and a re-working of the Divine Right of Kings and Manifest Destiny. (See The Club of Athens call for changes to Sovereign Rights.)

I supported the US non-signing of Kyoto for the reasons you say. There is a solution to pollution - nanobots can harvest pollutants now. But Global Warming is happening due to the release of methane from the Tundra - and it is happening VERY soon. Naomi Klein of Canada was a spokesperson in a documentary my oldest brother saw recently that says we are past the tipping point.

I also can conceive a solution to the issue but it involves things very classified - and a fall-back de-population plan laid out in the Georgia Guideposts.

There are many free energy sources covered in my thread Earth Computer Projector - here is an ancient one from that thread.

Forms are well known for their ability to focus energy. It is more than mere amplification such as occurs in a magnifying glass. It creates order such as a trapezoid room does in helping maintain brain firing balance for a schizophrenic. Is it useful to think of these forms like the two perfect tetrahedral in the Great Pyramid even though we really don't have the science of why or how the Pyramid used energy and distributed it as fully understood as we should? There is a whole lot we can learn from the following author.

"By Jerry W. Decker www.keelynet.com
PO Box 111786
Carrollton, TX 75011


There are fields of study which are relatively unknown to the general public. Though 'Pyramid Power' is well known, few have pursued it to other geometric forms and the phenomena which can be produced by understanding what is happening. Some of the key early researchers into Shape Power and the more specific Pyramid Power include Pavlita {See my article on Pavlita Generators.}, Belizal, Turenne, Drbal and Flanagan. Practical Aether Engineering is accomplished in nature by the use of various geometric forms and patterns as witnessed in the Fibonacci series, fractals, tiles, cones and tetrahedral shapes. Entomologist Phil Callahan has shown how insects and some plants use geometric shapes to collect and transmit electromagnetic and acoustic waves. When one understands that Aether, being the basic substrate of the universe, can be interferred with to such a degree as to produce all manner of energy and matter aggregations, it follows that everything is a result of Aether Engineering to various degrees.

Dan Davidson has been on the cutting edge of the aether engineering field for most of his adult life. In our many discussions and information exchanges over the years, I have found Dan to be one of the most reliable, consistent and serious investigators I've had the privilege to know. Few people have Dan's natural ability to cut to the chase and look for what is practical in the alternative science fields, as opposed to those who prefer to promote phenomena as unknowable mysteries or unproven claims. It takes not only a great amount of dedication and perseverance, but also a considerable investment of personal time and money to make a difference. I have found that Dan puts his money and time where his mouth is and actually does the experiments to refute or validate claims.


One other key gift that I have found Dan to possess is his openness to use other than mechanistic approaches in the study of alternative science. For instance, in some cases, Metaphysics is just as valid a tool as is the use of hardware and it is a rare gift indeed to be able and willing to fill in those missing gaps by using information derived from such sources.

As far as I'm concerned, it is irrelevant as to the information sources that lead to a new technology, only that it works as claimed and can be replicated by others and put into practical use by everyone.

When you read Shape Power, you should keep in mind that Dan is describing a form of aether engineering in its early stages. Recent and current events lend ever greater credence to the idea that long dead civilizations understood these aether principles and used them in their everyday lives. I believe that what you will read in Shape Power is a description of what will eventually lead to radical new technologies. The essence of how geometric patterns can influence energy flows is exactly the same as how antennas and other resonating structures work. Since everything resonates and establishes an information and energy transfer between two or more resonant bodies, then a two dimensional pattern can precisely resonate to a three dimensional structure.

Just as a microwave horn or an antenna collects or transmits wave energy, so too can geometric patterns be used to collect, transmit or modulate surrounding energy fields, including aether. 17th century Cymatics researcher Ernst Chaldni found that vibrating waveplates would allow you to actually see sound waves as a two dimensional image. Hans Jenny discovered how to expand these two dimensional images into three dimensional."

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Davidson.pdf
 
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Yes, I suppose that is true if the craft makes it close enough without being hit by debris. I guess the solar flares are not throwing off debris - or are they? Space elevators would take the cannisters close enough? I have not seen that.

No space elevators in the context of getting the cannisters into orbit safely. From there they can be fired at the sun.

As opposed to getting them into orbit via rockets. That wont ever happen because rockets all too often blow up, Using rockets to get the waste offplanet is an unacceptable risk given the potential to create the worlds nastiest dirty bomb in the process.

Once the realm of science fiction, a Japanese company has announced they will have a space elevator up and running by the year 2050.
If successful it would revolutionise space travel and potentially transform the global economy.
The Japanese construction giant Obayashi says they will build a space elevator that will reach 96,000 kilometres into space.
Robotic cars powered by magnetic linear motors will carry people and cargo to a newly-built space station, at a fraction of the cost of rockets. It will take seven days to get there.
The company said the fantasy can now become a reality because of the development of carbon nanotechnology

Japanese construction giant Obayashi announces plans to have a space elevator up and running by 2050 - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

That aside we still need to find a cleaner way to generate peak load electricity. But a space elevator could allow us to get rid of the waste we already have. Fission reactors are still a dangerous proposition and should be banned given what happened in Japan.
 
Thanks Mike

I knew about nanotech space elevators since Arthur C. Clarke but I had not considered sending cannisters from the platform. They could put a small ion propeller with guidance on them if 'firing' them is an issue. That same platform could bring Helium III back from the moon. One Space Shuttle load will power the needs of the US for a year. It can be processed in existing nuclear plants. Or it can be turned into energy on the moon along with solar there and laser beamed to Earth. There are many cleaner and cheaper solutions.

Eugene Mallove would be so happy!!!!!

""Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe. . .it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature." - Nikola Tesla

Imagine a world with abundant, compact, inexpensive, clean energy. Global warming has been reversed. The air is clean. Power and gas stations have been put to other uses, and the unsightly grid system has been dismantled and recycled. An unusual type of energy makes all this possible. It does not come from the sun, wind, rain or tides, nor is it a fossil or nuclear fuel taken from the ground or chemically synthesized. In some cases the source appears to be everywhere in space-time, invisible and infinite. In others, nuclear transmutations seem to be miraculously taking place at room temperature accompanying the release of energy.

Incredible as this scenario appears, we shall see in this article that laboratories around the world are repeatedly tapping into this abundant energy. Some leading theoretical physicists are beginning to understand why and how this is possible. Several companies are in the beginning stages of bringing workable devices to market that clearly produce more energy than what is needed to run them (so-called overunity devices)..

Research Breakthroughs and Commercial Developments According to knowledgeable observers, we should focus our attention on six new technologies:


(1) plasma-type devices;
(2) solid-state electromagnetic devices;
(3) ) hydrogen gas cells;
(4) super motors based on super magnets;
(5) cold fusion or "new hydrogen energy" (the Japanese name for cold fusion);
(6) hydrosonic or cavitation devices."
 
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