Ray Stanford - August 29th

[jratcliff]

I agree with an earlier poster that Ray Stanford needs to drink less caffeine or something. He sounded like he was hopped up on methamphetamine. Just take a deep breath Ray, slow down, and let's get to the heart of the matter.

In this whirlwind interview something went by so fast I'm not sure what was going on. There was talk of 'panels' wrapping around a mountain, or something like that!?

That was really confusing. Was he saying these 'panels' were something the US government built to communicate with UFOs like on Close Encounters, or they were some kind of an alien artifact? Was he saying these panels were permanent structures or something that just materialized temporarily?

Does he have extensive photographic documentation of these 'panels'? I found the whole claim of the panels to be both confusing and unbelievable as they were stationary and could readily have been proven to exist or not.

Realistically, the only way Chris is going to get evidence out of Ray is to visit his home and extract what he can in digital form and take it home with him. Everyone knows how badly magnetic audio tapes degrade over time. This evidence should have been transferred to digital format over twenty years ago.

And, while there was a lot of excitement about gravimeter readings, magnetometer readings, and audio cassettes there was virtually no discussion of photographic evidence. Were I in the situation Ray describes, while I would want to deploy all of the scientific equipment I could, I would also realize the *most important* equipment to deploy would be photographs and film.

Also, there was a lot of talk about long exposure photographs. We all know that any fast moving object on a long exposure photograph is just going to be a a big blurry mess which will be relatively useless to anyone other than maybe as a piece of abstract art.

All in all, I found the interview to be quite surreal.

John

 

[Angel of Ioren]

And what do you call magnetometer and gravitational data, crap? You sound more bitter than usual--venomous actually. s-s-s--sss

In terms of proving anything useful, yes. What I find frustrating is that he makes all these fantastic claims of films and photos and he submits magnetometer and gravitational data. Show us these amazing pictures that he claims to have.
Christopher, I'm getting fed up of this. He could have just as easily provided us with the photos of the objects or stills from the film instead of this data that basically amounts to numbers with no point of reference. What do I compare these readings to?

You're holding him up like he will shut up all the debunkers of the world. I'm starting to think that there will be nothing. I wonder how he'll get out of showing you the pictures and the film he promised. Will they get lost in the mail? Will the government, having heard the show, confiscate them? Will they mysteriously disappear, which will lead you to determine the trickster did it?
All I can say at this point is that this is getting really old. So, no you're not hearing bitterness, I have nothing to be bitter about. You have to understand - I have NO stake in any of this. I have absolutely nothing to lose - if he shows the pictures and they turn out to be something incredible, we'll have something to discuss. For now, there's nothing except the usual dancing around the topic with red herring "evidence."

 

[pixelsmith]

In terms of proving anything useful, yes. What I find frustrating is that he makes all these fantastic claims of films and photos and he submits magnetometer and gravitational data. Show us these amazing pictures that he claims to have.
Christopher, I'm getting fed up of this. He could have just as easily provided us with the photos of the objects or stills from the film instead of this data that basically amounts to numbers with no point of reference. What do I compare these readings to?

You're holding him up like he will shut up all the debunkers of the world. I'm starting to think that there will be nothing. I wonder how he'll get out of showing you the pictures and the film he promised. Will they get lost in the mail? Will the government, having heard the show, confiscate them? Will they mysteriously disappear, which will lead you to determine the trickster did it?
All I can say at this point is that this is getting really old. So, no you're not hearing bitterness, I have nothing to be bitter about. You have to understand - I have NO stake in any of this. I have absolutely nothing to lose - if he shows the pictures and they turn out to be something incredible, we'll have something to discuss. For now, there's nothing except the usual dancing around the topic with red herring "evidence."

I agree, if he has what he said he does, these images would be the absolute smoking gun that we are all looking for. WHY sit on them and let them degrade in film format?!

 

[trainedobserver]

I'm starting to think that there will be nothing. I wonder how he'll get out of showing you the pictures and the film he promised. Will they get lost in the mail? Will the government, having heard the show, confiscate them? Will they mysteriously disappear, which will lead you to determine the trickster did it?

While I understand your frustration with Standford and Phillips, I think you're being overly antagonistic here. We should give the guy some time and respect his concerns and wishes about sharing everything before he is ready to do so, particularly as he seems to plan to do so in the future in a controlled manner.

I do marvel that both Standford and Phillips have been at this for decades and by all accounts have gathered some startling and substantive evidence but haven't actually published it. Standford says he is preparing some mammoth power point presentation on the subject. It sounds to me like he could use help hammering his information into a form that could readily be published and reviewed by the people he wants to get it in front of ... a huge power point presentation might be that effective a means of doing so. Also, there is the matter of time. How much more time does Ray think he has to do this?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

While I understand your frustration with Standford and Phillips, I think you're being overly antagonistic here. We should give the guy some time and respect his concerns and wishes about sharing everything before he is ready to do so, particularly as he seems to plan to do so in the future in a controlled manner.

I do marvel that both Standford and Phillips have been at this for decades and by all accounts have gathered some startling and substantive evidence but haven't actually published it. Standford says he is preparing some mammoth power point presentation on the subject. It sounds to me like he could use help hammering his information into a form that could readily be published and reviewed by the people he wants to get it in front of ... a huge power point presentation might be that effective a means of doing so. Also, there is the matter of time. How much more time does Ray think he has to do this?

I hope that you're right. It's just that it always seems to be the same story - alleged great evidence turns out to be nothing. My antagonistic tone is due to my frustration of the current evidence on the table is being presented as something special, when he could have just started with the photos that sounded fantastic during the interview. Why not start with that instead of giving us something that most of us have no point of reference for?

 

[FletcherMunson]

...is it me or did it get really quiet ...around here...

Is it me... or are you baiting?

Hey, an official pat on the back to you and Gene. Seriously, you tried to reign Mr. Stanford in as much as you could. And you tried to pin him down on some details. It didn't really change the outcome of the show when talking about the 1978 incident, because he wasn't really interested in your participation in the interview. But you definitely did your due diligence with him. From your end, the interview was great.

I thought you almost... almost... had a hang up threat when you tried to follow-up on Mr. Stanford's claim of once meeting a guy in L.A. that could have been a real alien. (No evidence necessary for a claim like that, though [rim shot]... am I right?)

A serious question: Is it just in the paranormal field where researchers bring up something like that (meeting an alien or experiencing something) and then clam up or, as in Mr. Stanford's case, get testy when you ask them about it? Or, does that happen in other fields, as well? (No sarcasm, serious question.)

Personally, I've stopped caring about Mr. Stanford's evidence. He stated flatly that he wouldn't release some of his better stuff and that's good enough for me. If Mr. Stanford wants to get his findings into a peer reviewed journal or whatever, that's great. Sincerely, I hope he has some luck. Maybe then somebody will be able to explain to me exactly what his measurements and recordings mean, because in this interview, I was having a hard enough time just painting a mental picture of where they were from his storytelling -- never mind actually understanding his measurements. And I've actually been out near the area he was talking about. But I'm not that impressive intellectually, so... .

I guess my point is that if I don't understand even the basics of a story, I'm not inclined to believe the rest of it until I see something I can get my head around -- or, at least, a piece of evidence that would act as a key for the more esoteric information.

It seems like the interview really took off when you and Gene asked Mr. Stanford about backstage stories. That Daniel Fry story was truly something. If Mr. Stanford does become a recurring guest on the Paracast, that would appear to be a really promising path to explore. We have so few people around anymore with firsthand stories about the contactee movement, it would be truly interesting to hear you guys (and maybe Nick Redfern) explore that era with Mr. Stanford exclusively in a future episode. That's entertainment! He really does excel at storytelling when he's not burdened by scientific jargon or concepts.

Let's face it, Mr. Stanford doesn't want to present his evidence to the likes of us -- at least, not in the way many of us would like to see. He wants to go about it via the "big league science" route. That's his prerogative. Of course, it is. He's the one who has amassed and hoarded this information for decades, he should disseminate it however he sees fit. Maybe he never will let it all out into the sunshine. Like he said in the interview, his PowerPoint presentation will never be done.

But maybe it would be easier to just not talk about Mr. Stanford's research anymore until he has gone through his peer review process or whatever and has a journal article or book or DVD or (insert other media here) ready for public consumption. That way, we would all have something to reference when hearing him re-tell his account of the 1978 incident. I mean, I imagine you've seen most, if not all, of Mr. Stanford's research on this and many other cases, Chris. Personally, though, without such reference materials, I just can't follow along with his breathless retelling of the events. If you want to call me stupid for that, get in line. I'll warn you, it's a pretty long line...

Oh... and I took the bait! Damn it! I've got to work on that...

 

[sk4p]

This is a project with no lust for result. I am Thoth, so to speak...

Excellent Crowley reference.

--Shawn

 

[trainedobserver]

Let's face it, Mr. Stanford doesn't want to present his evidence to the likes of us -- at least, not in the way many of us would like to see. He wants to go about it via the "big league science" route. That's his prerogative. Of course, it is. He's the one who has amassed and hoarded this information for decades, he should disseminate it however he sees fit. Maybe he never will let it all out into the sunshine. Like he said in the interview, his PowerPoint presentation will never be done.

A 5000 slide PowerPoint presentation will never be reviewed by "big league science" or anyone else for that matter. It sounds to me that he needs a documentation/technical communication specialist (or team of them) to put his information into a form that can actually get published, reviewed, and disseminated within the scientific community. If he is actually serious about it, and I think that he is... an endless slide show is not the approach to take IMHO.

 

[pixelsmith]

A 5000 slide powerpoint presentation is bound to crash and burn... maybe it should be converted to film.

 

[trainedobserver]

Excellent Crowley reference.

Now there is a fascinating character. Although I've read a bit of Crowley and those who wrote about him I've never understood any of the admiration or adoration that gets thrown his way. For all of his alleged enlightenment and "secret" knowledge, he died penniless, alone, and diseased.

 

[Hoffmeister]

Well what a suprise, another guest who says that they have video of UFO's but they haven't shown it to anyone. And when we ask for some data we get a bunch of information that could mean just about anything.
Is it me, or is there a running theme now with guests who apparently have evidence? They say they have this fantastic stuff, and then when anyone asks for it they supply a load of data that doesn't come close to what they promised.
Don't all go getting mad at me now as well, because i'm not trying to offend anyone here but it just seems like absolute madness to me that people are falling for this stuff.... i literally struggle to believe it, particularly after we've just had the Ted Philips debacle where he clearly came up with absolutely nothing

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Excellent Crowley reference.

--Shawn

Ah yes 93

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

Well what a suprise, another guest who says that they have video of UFO's but they haven't shown it to anyone. And when we ask for some data we get a bunch of information that could mean just about anything.

Actually it means something--it's not impossible to get scientific data from a UFO sighting. Whether you (or others) understand the science is another question entirely...

---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

Now there is a fascinating character. Although I've read a bit of Crowley and those who wrote about him I've never understood any of the admiration or adoration that gets thrown his way. For all of his alleged enlightenment and "secret" knowledge, he died penniless, alone, and diseased.

Don't forget he was also a heroin addict and a coke fiend in the years prior to his death. It must gave sucked being so vilified and misunderstood.

 

[trainedobserver]

Don't forget he was also a heroin addict and a coke fiend in the years prior to his death. It must gave sucked being so vilified and misunderstood.

You're joking aren't you? Actually he was into that from the start wasn't he? Diary of a Drug Fiend provides some of those details. Misunderstood and unjustly vilified? I don't know how much that is the actual case. You would think that communing with Cosmic Whatsits and understanding the "mysteries" would give you an edge that would overcome mundane things like vilification by the unwashed and put some jack in your pocket.

 

[Hoffmeister]

A
[/COLOR]Actually it means something--it's not impossible to get scientific data from a UFO sighting. Whether you (or others) understand the science is another question entirely...

So to clarify, are you saying that this data supplied could not have been created by anything earthly, it must have come from a UFO? Are you saying that there is no way of creating this data through earthly means?

 

[Gareth]

As frustrated as I am that Rays films/stills have not yet been digitised, personally I believe that he probably does have some interesting stuff.

Ray has invited Greg, Biedny, Chris and whoever else to visit him and view his material.

I remain patient.

 

[Apocalypto]

I liked the show. I liked the fact that Ray knows what he wants to talk about and what he doesn't want to talk about. I liked the fact that Ray doesn't want anyone to contact him.

He's a win.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I believe that he probably does have some interesting stuff...Ray has invited Greg, Biedny, Chris and whoever else to visit him and view his material.

When I lived in VA Beach 2002-2004 I made a number of trips up to the DC area to spend extended time w/ Ray. Of course, go figure, it was Louis Jarvis that introduced us. Ray and Louis have known each other since the late '70s. Ray thinks Louis is beyond out there, tries to understand his rationale but appreciates his enthusiasm. I can honestly say Ray is the most enigmatic, insightful, observant, amazing person I have ever met--let alone called a friend. I hosted an invitation-only all day presentation in Sedona of some of his analytical UFO work in 2006. I have also spent hundreds of hours with Ray on the phone over these past 9+ years covering a gamut of subjects and learning from his first-hand involvement in ufology for over 50 years. Early on, I recorded his "ufological" life-story in a series of taped interviews that I have transcribed into an "in his own words" book manuscript. Hopefully, we'll get all those UFO motion picture films (Ray has carefully hidden away) digitized soon. My mantra to him since I met him is "you have to digitize your films." I think he understands the need to be able to produce his primary data upon request. Several people have made snide comments about predicting lottery numbers etc, but as most folks understand, psychic abilities are graced upon people to be used to help others. I have yet to meet a psychic (I've had two professional psychic/empath girlfriends over the years, btw) that are able to manifest self-serving info that wins money from lotteries, horseraces or political campaigns. I too remain patient.

 

[itsthenoise]

This seemed like the best Paracast interview of Ray that I've heard, the previous one I think he just got 'wound up' until he was speaking a way too fast and you couldn't really understand what he was saying and made you think he had a screw loose. This interview was very illuminating, it showed that he's done some incredible work and that he's no crazy man but just a bit of an eccentric; a truly interesting character. Thanks Gene and Chris excellent show.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

This seemed like the best Paracast interview of Ray that I've heard, the previous one I think he just got 'wound up' until he was speaking a way too fast and you couldn't really understand what he was saying and made you think he had a screw loose. This interview was very illuminating, it showed that he's done some incredible work and that he's no crazy man but just a bit of an eccentric; a truly interesting character. Thanks Gene and Chris excellent show.

Great show guys and maybe Mr Ray Stanford might like to post his videos on the paracast forum ? This is the gold standard of paranormal radio and maybe Mrs Leslie Kean Co hosting one time Gene Follow up Questions for Mr Ray Stanford Christopher or Gene if you get chance to speak to him : Did he or his team have dizzy spells during seeing the UAP,UFO , radiation reading on your clothing, car disturbance while leaving the area, what other type of missile and electronics systems were in the military base at the time if possible:exclamation: and any animal or human mutilation around the missile range?

Maybe you guys need to go seven days a week and maybe a membership of some sorts which might help out Gene

 

[trainedobserver]

Ray ... just a bit of an eccentric ...

You would think that would be something every single person who is motivated to listen to the Paracast or participate in this forum could appreciate fully regardless of their level of skepticism. Know what I'm saying? I think there should a little more mirror gazing and a little less criticism in that regard from this bunch.