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Ray Stanford has a photo of the Socorro craft & Martin Willis has seen it and is impressed but...

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Lets say that the pics prove that it was a human craft dose it lessen the discovery? NO. .
It would be a mystery solved a UFO finally identified. DS I never seen you appoch anyone with respect. I started hostile becuse I messed up and posted without all the facts. No kool aid needed. . If it is human or alien..we will have the TRUTH. .

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That is why it [Socorro] became one of 701 cases that they eventually classified as unknown. We have never, especially in 1964, had an egg shapped craft that could hover silently.
It's not hard to misinterpret an object to be something it is not or to build something egg shaped that could hover or appear to hover in 1964. Zamora even used the word "balloon" in his police(?) report. Furthermore, if Intelligence PSYOPS can fool the whole German Army for months during WWII in 1944 with inflatable tanks, aircraft, and other inflatable objects, then Zamora can be fooled too 20 years later in 1964.

Speaking of 701, Socorro, and Stanford, everyone needs to listen to this interview that Decker did. Please note even Chris O'Brien can get very upset with Ray. This is a MUST listen to:

UPDATE: Tracy Torme is also doing the 701 film with James Fox, and he was on Decker's DMR show last night [back in March 2015] and commented in some detail about Ray Stanford. I think you will find it quite revealing, but James Fox is the guy that spent 4-5 [or up to 10] days at Ray Stanford's house. Tracy does not seem impressed to say the least despite Fox's long visit, though he only spoke with Ray by phone. And, this happened after James Fox visited Ray, so there is a summation viewpoint when you hear Tracy's comments. It's not positive in the least.

Everyone should listen to his comments. It was recorded Thursday night March 26th, 2015. It's right up-front near the beginning of DMR. No need to wait or search for Tracy's comments which go on for about 7 minutes about this.

At about the 10 minute mark you can learn all about Ray Stanford...

Here's the direct download link to this show:


Fantastic job Decker! It is a keeper...
 
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I wrote up a long and pretty mean spirited post about this which I deleted.

I'll just say this instead. It's bad manners and poor taste to talk about this stuff at all if we're not allowed or privileged to see it.

Don't say "we have these awesome pictures but you can't see them."

And don't be surprised when folks make light of you for doing it. Who in their right mind WOULDN'T do it, considering the history of this field of UFOOLOGY.

And again, if Ray Standford has amazing research but is keeping it private, that's his right, certainly. But really, if we cannot see it, then who cares. Who cares at all. It might as well not exist.
 
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DissectionStalker makes a cogent point about WWII and inflatable German tanks. Given the time and motive and resources, it's certainly plausible that Zamora could have been tricked. What's more, we already know that the military had a vested interest in promoting disinformation regarding UFOs and flying saucers in the fifties and sixties.

Kool-aid drunkenness indeed. I think I drank the kool-aid myself for many years, but I have lost my taste for it.
 
Wow the med's ain't working. You proved you don't even know the case. There were several witnesses including Chavez.
But I digress by talking to the clueless. Your 15 minutes of shame are up.
Did Chavez or Stanford tell the truth??? TWO different accounts too! Is he just a "dependable witness" according to who he is speaking to, or does Ray Stanford falsify "the truth" 45 years later about what Chavez said?

Stanford says: In October 2009, Stanford first publicly revealed that Sgt. Chavez, the first policeman to provide backup for Zamora, had privately confided to fellow police officers that he too had seen the object rapidly departing to the west over the mountains as he approached the site [...] That's what Stanford alleges [45 years later] vs what Chaves said below...

However, in public statements, Chavez maintained that he arrived too late to see the object. When Chavez first arrived at Zamora's position where the object had departed, he also noted that burnt bushes were still smoldering and Zamora appeared to be in a state of shock.

Btw, let's ask Ray Stanford about the La Madera incident within 32 hrs of the Socorro incident. Hey Ray, why were you so dismissive and hostile about Tracy Torme using that La Madera incident in his 701 film? Listen to that interview in previous post linked above.

Oh yeah, I definitely can imagine some Freaky UFO Freak Cult Humans pulling off this complete ET SyFy BS. Silly Rabbit Humans! Playing ET in a sheeit Egg UFO with blue propane flames and loud sound effects that could hover with hot air or other lighter than air gas. The laugh factor is HUGE. ALL this Roswell ET UFO crap is where it is always happening too... There is definitely a Human ET UFO cult of people living in NM. These are SyFy freaks from Kirkland Air Force Base and Los Alamos, etc. Note the travel of the Egg stays in this area where these people operate out of. It's an ET poison Cult Mythology. Still, it is fascinating, entertaining, funny, and CREEPY why Humans do the strangest things, but they do!

It's just waayyy toooooo good to be true that Ray has the ONLY photo of the same object months later where Zamora saw it too. The icing is on this Human ET cake. LOL.

What freaky Human(s) set-up Ray, or was Ray involved from the get go??? Wink.

fbi640427_pg1

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Scroll down to see burnt area in a picture at La Madera...

Something Strange in the Sky - ABC News

Some Socorro, Chavez, and La Madera info can be found or linked from here:

Lonnie Zamora incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Wow. I've only seen one person on this thread being rude, and it is not one of those who are (and should be) very skeptical about all of this.

Mr. Moss, think for a minute. You're talking to a group of people that just witnessed The Roswell Slides, and you guys are going public with your evidence in the EXACT same manner.
 
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It's far more than implausible that, months after this alleged incident with Lonnie Zamora, Stanford was on sight and shot some film -- and 40 or 50 years later, he discovered more or less on a whim that his footage showed alien spaceships flitting around in the distant sky.

You might as well claim Stanford was born in a manger and later gave birth to alien star babies; these claims are just as far out.

I cannot believe that you're accusing us of having our heads buried in the sand. These claims extend far beyond the brink of complete absurdity. You actually believe that some footage he happened to shoot just coincidentally captured alien spaceships zooming around in the background, spaceships which he didn't happen to notice for 40 or 50 years.

hah hah HAH!

Let it be on record that Chuckleberryfinn said from the beginning that he did not believe any of this.
 
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Since no one here knows the facts of the Socorro case, I cannot have a level headed discussion that does not seem to venture off into the absurd. Dissection is a prime example. This person has displayed his lack of knowledge and research on the Socorro incident over and over, has been rude, has distorted the facts, has his mind made up from the start thus will never offer any 'insights or real discovery'. Just because there is new information here that was mentioned initially (not by me) that does not mean that anyone can demand to see it or even have a reasonable idea of what it contains. The Roswell slide debacle was all about money and as I have said before anyone getting into the subject of UFO's to become rich or famous will find themselves poor and unknown. I am not going out of my way to be rude but I also do not suffer fools. Many of the comments here about Ray and his material are so far off base as to not be worthy of a reply.
So as many here are shooting the messenger, the facts will eventually speak for themselves.
If you think this is off base just re read this moronic statement:
"Oh yeah, I definitely can imagine some Freaky UFO Freak Cult Humans pulling off this complete ET SyFy BS. Silly Rabbit Humans! Playing ET in a sheeit Egg UFO with blue propane flames and loud sound effects that could hover with hot air or other lighter than air gas. The laugh factor is HUGE. ALL this Roswell ET UFO crap is where it is always happening too... There is definitely a Human ET UFO cult of people living in NM."
I mean really, how ignorant can this get? The absurdity of this is laughable, and the facts of the case have long ago dismissed the hoax theory. But I am speaking into the wind.
If you really believe that a group of 'UFO ET Cult people" (I really have to laugh as I type this) were able to know when Zamora was going to chase a speeding car, know when and where he was going to pull off of the road, be able to hoax an egg shaped craft as a 'bag of hot air' that went against and into a strong South west wind, and stay completely hidden as well as not leave any evidence of fuel, pyrotechnics, etc, then you should not be discussing this case.
Really there is nothing left to say and as far as the feedback on this page, there are those who show they know the case and others who make it up as they go along.
 
Just want to be clear about one thing. This bastion of credibility, Ray Stanford, this is the guy who wrote the books about channeling spirits involved in the Fatima sighting, and then he claimed that the information derived from this activity should be of concern to us all. This is the guy, right?

And now, contrary to all probability, he found pictures of spaceships in the background of some old footage. Mind you, he didn't see the spaceships and then point the camera at them to capture the footage. He just happened to be filming where they were flying 15 or 20 miles away and didn't notice it until 40 or 50 years later.

If you go public with this, NO ONE will take it seriously. It will not be some ground breaking discovery. The world will not awaken to the reality of flying saucers. The media will just make a spectacle out of you all. Even if the pictures or video shows real spaceships, the story itself is like so much else in UFOOLOGY, absurd and improbable and just down right silly. And of course, pictures in and of themselves cannot function as any kind of proof of anything -- especially not with a backstory so wacky as what all of you are promulgating, and with a spokesperson who wrote a book about channeling spirits who gave him information about a sighting of the Virgin Mary.

Maybe something weird did happen at Fatima, but channeling? CHANNELING? And not simply channeling, but believing that legitimate information, trustworthy information, can be derived from doing it.

DissectionStalker is right. You guys are hard-chugging barrels a day of the Ray Stanford Kool-Aid. You're so drunk on it that you've lost perspective.

I'm sorry for saying it, too, because I like the show, and I like Christopher O'Brien. But man, I just cannot take this kind of business seriously. I think Stanford is right to keep all of this secret, if he does. Even if it's real, there's simply no way to prove it, and all anyone will do is laugh and ridicule, except for some small hardcore of ET enthusiasts.
 
Some of the main problems with Ray's story about photographing the same Egg object months after the event and just accidentally capturing it on a photograph without knowing it too until DECADES later are as follows...

1) Ray Stanford is the genius Eagle Eyed vision guy, right? I mean, he sees things no one else could possibly see, but he doesn't see the Egg while on-site again??? He doesn't see it in the photo until DECADES later too?

2) WHY did Ray need to be on-site again? He had his camera with Hynek months before, and that is when the main "investigation" was done. So, we're to believe he's taking pictures AGAIN at the same location to get a shot of the dynamite shack, months later, but Mr. Eagle Eyes, always skyward looking with camera ready, missed seeing the Egg in the air too?

3) We have to assume that the Egg must have been flying around in the area for MONTHS, so there would be NUMEROUS reports of the same object big time. These new sightings would be in the papers and on the radio because of all the hysteria these repeat sightings would generate too! But, oh no, this Egg in the face of UFO Mythology came again just to pose for Ray's camera ONLY, and even the Eagle Eye himself missed seeing it at that second visit.

4) The fact is there are UFO Cults, and most UFO sightings are misidentification and hoaxes. Kirkland Air Force Base [and other MIC bases in NM] and Los Alamos did have people as employees and contractors that definitely played ET-UFO games with the citizens in that region of the country. Another policeman named Gabe Valdez and men named Bennewitz, Doty, Moore, and many others PROVED it BIG TIME. Oh yeah, the Human Cattle Dissections blamed on ET-UFO's that Linda Moulton Howe used the media to promote and make a name for herself. So, yes, I think the ET-UFO Freaky Creepy Egg people knew Ray Stanford was in town and arranged for that object to be in the sky just to pose for Ray's camera too, and that almost certainly means Ray knows exactly how this game is played... Adamski trained him well, LOL, IMO.

Yes, I sure as hell am being sarcastic towards people that were hoaxing and creating fake ET-UFO events for various reasons, and I happily and rightly call them Freaky Creepy UFO Cult people. The problem is rampant in 2015 thanks to MUFON shows like Hangar One, youtube fake videos and fake pictures and fake sightings all over the net. It's nothing but entertainment. It's nothing new. Hell, Linda Moulton Howe is still talking about mutilations for 40 years! Now, LMH, says it's 1/2 cats just a few weeks ago.

Ray Stanford joined a UFO Cult by living with Adamski for years in the 1950's. Ray sure did learn a lot about using gullible people and lying to them to believe in ET-UFO's from one of the most famous UFO cult fraud artists of the 1950's. Yes, Ray Stanford was a UFO cult member of Adamski's group by living there with him and helping as a member too! Ray had his own UFO/Paranormal cult/club group in Austin Texas in the 1970's too, so Ray was the leader of a UFO cult/club he ran doing all kinds of bizarre things involving channeling and other UFO/ESP related indulgences. They even had pretty white uniforms for their Star Team members to wear at their UFO watch/attraction site just outside Austin. Yes, Ray knew all about running a UFO club/cult in the 1970's while still in his thirties. Not sure how many years the formal UFO club/cult lasted, but that never stopped Ray from sticking to it in the 1980's and beyond.

Of course, there is big money to be made in such cult ET-Mythologies too. Scientology proves it. The ET-UFO Movies, Radio, and book authors prove it too. Discover Channels prove these networks make plenty of money doing this, otherwise there would be no shows about it. Thanks to Bigelow, Art Bell really helped to popularize ET-UFO events in the 1990's. MUFON is a sell-out to the ET-UFO Entertainment Cable Channel Matrix too.

Ray knows ET-UFO's exist. He has the proof on S-8mm film, 16mm film, and maybe 8mm film too. He has Motherships and their smaller ET-UFO's for lower level flights, multiple times, in different years. Ray says he even has an ET-UFO pilot on film too. Ray says he can prove it.

We hear about scientific peer review, OMG, but what legitimate Science Journal will accept Ray's work? What peer review of Scientists will do the peer review? Will other published scientists even acknowledge Ray's work? Ray's ONLY scientist that Ray will name that saw his "beam ahead" 1985 S-8mm film will NOT even comment about what Ray says. Yet, Ray claims this scientist used his new and novel "film discovery" ideas to make breakthroughs about this beam ahead discovery he showed this person. Oh yeah, I've researched this Big Time, and the historical context about this idea is not true from what I learned about Beam Ahead -as Ray calls it. I already posted about this topic months ago. The idea was already known and published about in the 1960's if not before, so I have no idea how Ray or Chris O'Brien or Moss keep talking about peer review. Just who are Ray's scientific peer reviewers that will even comment about Ray, much less, help any publishing effort for peer review??? You see, this is PURE FANTASY, and nothing but a delay tactic, it's obvious, IMO. But Ray keeps on showing his findings privately to "qualified scientists", and we keep hearing about peer review too. But, peer review is NOT a private, not published, activity, so I think that idea of peer review should be respected and just drop it. It's NO EXCUSE to keep delaying and withholding these alleged extraordinary findings that will revolutionize Humankind's understanding about ET-UFO's existence to the entire World and World History too!

Why Ray Stanford will go down as the most famous Human living for such a discovery. He would be considered one of the most historically important Humans that ever lived on planet Earth. He would be an instant millionaire. But nahhh, Ray is just too humble a guy and does not care about such trivial matters that do interest all of Humankind. Ray has the proof, but he just denies Humanity of such fantastic discoveries talking about peer review, etc. OMG, and who is their 'right mind' that will support such unsupportable positions?

But, now, the MUFON investigators have come to the rescue and are on this case! The Discovery Channels and ET-UFO Entertainment Matrix must be licking their forthcoming billion dollar Hangar One sexy lips over this one...

One question: Who in their right mind will pay attention to this kind of media coverage for such important discoveries and revelations meant for all of Humankind? Is a MUFON sponsored website or MUFON investigator blog going to give these revelations the dignified presentation it deserves? Would Hangar One do it?

Yeah, good luck with that peer review too... Wink.
 
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As I've said previously in other contexts:

Ironies within ufo research : Item 5 - Some UFO researchers (including skeptics) like to keep material to themselves, while simultaneously claiming that their material would withstand any amount of testing. When the material eventually emerges, it often collapses rather suddenly and dramatically.
Exactly. Most of us do not have any valid UFO photo's. Yet, miraculously Ray Stanford has dozens.....but wont release them to anyone.
 
I understand that Ray has disdain for the UFO community and doesn't want to see "our enemies" get this "technology." However, why can't he simply sit down with the people at MIT and present his evidence. It wouldn't be on message forums, it wouldn't be accessible to ISIS, and it would go a LONG way in establishing a bit of credibility to his claims. He rants and raves about not liking UFO people and "wants to do something" with these "evidence" yet fails to recognize we have thousands of Universities, all with massive science departments, that would love to see film of a "UFO shooting a plasma beam" at Ray Stanford in "broad daylight" (his quotes). Unless he starts a dialog with reputable academics, I am not satisfied hearing "Martin Willis" say he was impressed with Ray's "enhanced" UFO processing of some pictures.
 
Exactly. Most of us do not have any valid UFO photo's. Yet, miraculously Ray Stanford has dozens.....but wont release them to anyone.
Oh, it gets much better than this... for some reason Ray had to take a picture of the dynamite shack months later after the Socorro incident, and miraculously the ET-Egg appeared framed perfectly in the distance just above the horizon to see its outline shape with landing gear down too!!! LOL.

That friggin dynamite shack had to be first choice, or was the ET-Egg really the main attraction -legs and all for the pose pose pose as Madonna would sing it... Vogue and strike a pose. That's some damn sexy high tech model work being performed there, legs and all, better than Vogue could do it too!

What tiny fraction of sky was exposed just so the ET-Egg would be there at the precise height and exact moment Ray snapped that picture too? What are the astronomical odds with time and space against that happening by sheer chance?

Strike a pose baby! Ray gets the pose pose pose of even an ET Alien pilot too! Yep, better than Vogue. Maybe Ray should get a time warp Madonna to do a sexy Egg video on behalf of Vogue for such a pose pose pose. Vogue, and ET strikes a pose.
 
Oh, it gets much better than this... for some reason Ray had to take a picture of the dynamite shack months later after the Socorro incident, and miraculously the ET-Egg appeared framed perfectly in the distance just above the horizon to see its outline shape with landing gear down too!!! LOL.

That friggin dynamite shack had to be first choice, or was the ET-Egg really the main attraction -legs and all for the pose pose pose as Madonna would sing it... Vogue and strike a pose. That's some damn sexy high tech model work being performed there, legs and all, better than Vogue could do it too!

What tiny fraction of sky was exposed just so the ET-Egg would be there at the precise height and exact moment Ray snapped that picture too? What are the astronomical odds with time and space against that happening by sheer chance?

Strike a pose baby! Ray gets the pose pose pose of even an ET Alien pilot too! Yep, better than Vogue. Maybe Ray should get a time warp Madonna to do a sexy Egg video on behalf of Vogue for such a pose pose pose. Vogue, and ET strikes a pose.


The whole ideas of little telescopic landing gear always seemed laughable to me. That seems right out of 1960's technology. These crafts are so advanced they can travel light years, but need little "landing gears" to visit earth? Why can't they just hover? It would be like saying, "I saw this car, with an engine running, but pulling it was this horse, and behind the car, was this carriage"

It wouldn't make any sense. Any ship that can cover or defy gravity, doesn't need "landing gears"
 
And what if the UFOs we see are merely projections, holographic or otherwise, for our benefit?

Maybe some are just secret aircraft.

It doesn't mean that the sighting didn't occur, or that the witness didn't see something anomalous of one sort or another.
 
And what if the UFOs we see are merely projections, holographic or otherwise, for our benefit?

Maybe some are just secret aircraft.

It doesn't mean that the sighting didn't occur, or that the witness didn't see something anomalous of one sort or another.


In being consistent with the evidence, a hologram doesn't make sound or shoot fire. So you can say such things "generally" however, when applied to the Sorrocco case, it doesn't fit. Moreover, I am still trying to figure out what the benefit is or why the holgram would need to have landing gears that could disturb the earth.
 
Perhaps I'm confusing the Zamora/Socorro case with another but didn't the alleged craft leave some actual physical evidence behind in the form of scorched plants and a melted patch of sand at the landing/take-off point? Would that not then exclude the idea that it was a hologram or any sort of projection? Of course, that does not rule out secret gov't aircraft. In my mind, it bolsters the case you could make for a test/prototype military aircraft.


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