Ray Stanford -- January 15, 2012

[Polterwurst]

Oops... posted this in the wrong thread first....

As for the show, just great. I mean, interactive radio, how cool is that?
I really hadn't realized the full extent of societal changes and global progress through the internet until I listened to a UFO research veteran on the other side of the Atlantic answering questions I had asked only a short while before. If someone had told me that ten years ago, I would have called him plain crazy.

It's a shame that there don't seem to be any surviving legends or passed-down traditions about the origins of these discoid game pieces, especially the saucer-shaped ones. I think the "catholic priest analogy" is all too accurate. So once more, we are left with something that looks like it might be a clue but all we can do is speculate.

Chris actually asked a question I was a little reluctant to ask, about the authenticity of the more saucer-like artifacts and their archaeological discovery. I mean, the simpler versions are obviously genuine. And with these saucer-like ones I'd think that it would be quite difficult to fake them, to work with the materials they are made of and artificially ageing them. As official science wouldn't be impressed by these shapes, there wouldn't be much motivation for it. It wouldn't really pay off, I guess.

All in all I think the show was very informative and interesting. I do like to hear about the history of UFO research in the US, the subject always having been somewhat of a taboo here in my country. I really hope Mr Stanford gets his wealth of recordings, pictures and findings out soon and that the books / DVDs etc. will be available here in Germany too.

Oh and Mr Stanford, don't get me started on the possibilities of past lives, be it as a native american or other...

 

[Voyager]

Oops... posted this in the wrong thread first....

As for the show, just great. I mean, interactive radio, how cool is that?
I really hadn't realized the full extent of societal changes and global progress through the internet until I listened to a UFO research veteran on the other side of the Atlantic answering questions I had asked only a short while before. If someone had told me that ten years ago, I would have called him plain crazy.

It's a shame that there don't seem to be any surviving legends or passed-down traditions about the origins of these discoid game pieces, especially the saucer-shaped ones. I think the "catholic priest allegory" is all too accurate. So once more, we are left with something that looks like it might be a clue but all we can do is speculate.

Chris actually asked a question I was a little reluctant to ask, about the authenticity of the more saucer-like artifacts and their archaeological discovery. I mean, the simpler versions are obviously genuine. And with these saucer-like ones I'd think that it would be quite difficult to fake them, to work with the materials they are made of and artificially ageing them. As official science wouldn't be impressed by these shapes, there wouldn't be much motivation for it. It wouldn't really pay off, I guess.

All in all I think the show was very informative and interesting. I do like to hear about the history of UFO research in the US, the subject always having been somewhat of a taboo here in my country. I really hope Mr Stanford gets his wealth of recordings, pictures and findings out soon and that the books / DVDs etc. will be available here in Germany too.

Oh and Mr Stanford, don't get me started on the possibilities of past lives, be it as a native american or other...

 

[Polterwurst]

OMG !! It's two spheroid UFOs! No way these are photoshopped. Will you look at that!

 

[Voyager]

OMG !! It's two spheroid UFOs! No way these are photoshopped. Will you look at that!

What can I say, it's hard to work with screen captured b/w images.

 

[jpw.in.wi]

It's a shame that there don't seem to be any surviving legends or passed-down traditions about the origins of these discoid game pieces, especially the saucer-shaped ones. I think the "catholic priest analogy" is all too accurate. So once more, we are left with something that looks like it might be a clue but all we can do is speculate.

As for the "catholic priest analogy," there is nothing secretive about the field of theology, and that includes the Eucharist. It's all out there for anyone who's interested in learning about it, whether you're a scholar or a hobbyist. The thing is, if you don't buy into it, then why participate in the concrete activity?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Native Americans who played this game with the discs weren't holding back any "secret knowledge" concerning how these saucer-shaped game pieces came about. If the object of the game is to roll your rock on the ground with accuracy, then a nice rounded and balanced saucer shape would certainly be a good design choice. I think Mr. Stanford is reading far too much into the whole thing.

For example, should we likewise consider that maybe, just maybe, the origin of Bocce Ball is somehow linked to encounters Italians have had with the orb phenomenon? Or is the swept-back shape of the horseshoes that we throw in my neck of the woods suggestive of past encounters with the same folks who were piloting the ships that Kenneth Arnold saw? Isn't it at least possible?

 

[Voyager]

As for the "catholic priest analogy," there is nothing secretive about the field of theology, and that includes the Eucharist. It's all out there for anyone who's interested in learning about it, whether you're a scholar or a hobbyist. The thing is, if you don't buy into it, then why participate in the concrete activity?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Native Americans who played this game with the discs weren't holding back any "secret knowledge" concerning how these saucer-shaped game pieces came about. If the object of the game is to roll your rock on the ground with accuracy, then a nice rounded and balanced saucer shape would certainly be a good design choice. I think Mr. Stanford is reading far too much into the whole thing.

For example, should we likewise consider that maybe, just maybe, the origin of Bocce Ball is somehow linked to encounters Italians have had with the orb phenomenon? Or is the swept-back shape of the horseshoes that we throw in my neck of the woods suggestive of past encounters with the same folks who were piloting the ships that Kenneth Arnold saw? Isn't it at least possible?

I don't know. I have never seen any ships that look like Stanford's discoids. They kind of look like the sports model Lazar claimed to have seen at area 51.

 

[SonofaSkunk]

He didn't answer my question either. Too busy talking about lasers and iconography I guess. But, it was a good show. As usual Chris and Gene did a good job of ferreting out the important info.

 

[Polterwurst]

As for the "catholic priest analogy," there is nothing secretive about the field of theology, and that includes the Eucharist.

If I remember correctly, the argument wasn't about secrecy but about the difficulty to explain the real meaning of the ritual. I am Catholic myself and as a kid I was quite taken with that faith (until a really bigoted priest changed that). I've always found it very difficult to explain the meaning of the ceremony to non-Catholics, mostly because all I could do was to repeat sentences I had learned but not fully understood myself. I don't participate any more, mostly because no one really bothered to explain these things, especially the priests themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Native Americans who played this game with the discs weren't holding back any "secret knowledge" concerning how these saucer-shaped game pieces came about.

I wouldn't, either. I hoped that Mr Stanford would be able to present additional evidence, but after hearing the show, it seems, as I've said, that all we have is the admittedly odd looks of some of these artifacts and vague idea that it was to do with a flying mythology figure, which really isn't much. I think you're right to dismiss the discoids as proof in the absence of further evidence. But you should understand that others like me still see them as possible evidence.

For example, should we likewise consider that maybe, just maybe, the origin of Bocce Ball is somehow linked to encounters Italians have had with the orb phenomenon? Or is the swept-back shape of the horseshoes that we throw in my neck of the woods suggestive of past encounters with the same folks who were piloting the ships that Kenneth Arnold saw? Isn't it at least possible?

Well, I'm not really convinced that the disc shape is such an obvious shape for rolling on the ground as the ball shape is, so in the case of the boules I would think that it's quite far fetched. But why on earth throw horseshoes? Nah, as above, only if you had more reason to believe that these game pieces have to do with UFOs, that would be a worthwile speculation. But as with the discoids, if there's not really much evidence, there is not much use to speculate. I guess I'll leave that to people like Mr Von Däniken and his followers, thank you.

 

[wwkirk]

I think its interesting how the earlier discoids were more detailed. That is suggestive that they reflect actual observations of craft. But I admit the story is incomplete without folklore to corroborate it.

 

[tlc8126]

Has Ray Stanford looked into whether or not the Hawaiian game of Ulu Maika' is similar to Chunkey? The Hawaiians also had a game where they spun an elongated 'shuttle' or 'dart' along the ground, and it sound like these things are some what similar in nature to Chunkey. Could both of these games in Ancient Hawaii come from Ancient American Culture?

 

[wwkirk]

Has Ray Stanford looked into whether or not the Hawaiian game of Ulu Maika' is similar to Chunkey? The Hawaiians also had a game where they spun an elongated 'shuttle' or 'dart' along the ground, and it sound like these things are some what similar in nature to Chunkey. Could both of these games in Ancient Hawaii come from Ancient American Culture?

I think they are related. In this anthropological document, the two terms are treated as synonyms. Papohaku to Hakina

 

[Terjarv]

Overall this was a great episode. As usual, Gene and Chris did a great job guiding the discussion (Stanford likes to digress). Ray seems like a nice guy, but I am deeply suspect of his data. If he has all of this data, why does he not release it? I thought his explanation left a lot to be desired, especially considering he touts this data whenever he is interviewed. Even if you cannot get the data into a peer-reviewed journal, at least share it with the public. It is common in many fields for research to be presented at symposiums and shared with colleagues YEARS before it is published! Perhaps unveiling your data will open the possibility of collaborations with scientists and academic researchers thereby paving the road towards publication.

Just some thoughts...

 

[wwkirk]

Overall this was a great episode. As usual, Gene and Chris did a great job guiding the discussion (Stanford likes to digress). Ray seems like a nice guy, but I am deeply suspect of his data. If he has all of this data, why does he not release it? I thought his explanation left a lot to be desired, especially considering he touts this data whenever he is interviewed. Even if you cannot get the data into a peer-reviewed journal, at least share it with the public. It is common in many fields for research to be presented at symposiums and shared with colleagues YEARS before it is published! Perhaps unveiling your data will open the possibility of collaborations with scientists and academic researchers thereby paving the road towards publication.

Just some thoughts...

There's the additional danger that he could pass away before its released. I'm not sure how old he is, but he's old enough for it to be a concern. If the data is really valuable, it would be a shame for it to all be lost.

One thing puzzles me. How could he spot UFOs so frequently as to be able to shoot lasers at them. Aren't UFO sightings rare and unpredictable?

 

[Terjarv]

One thing puzzles me. How could he spot UFOs so frequently as to be able to shoot lasers at them. Aren't UFO sightings rare and unpredictable?

Agreed, he seems to have great luck with UFO sightings. It certainly does raise questions...

 

[Polterwurst]

My guess is, if you really mean business, are out in the open and watch the skies as often as possible, you will eventually see something that's not easy to explain. I often hear or read about UFO sightings from people who are outside very often, not as much as from people who work indoors for example.

And if you then happen to be in an area which has one or more things that "attract" them (at least it seems that things like power plants are quite popular with "them"), you might have more than one sighting over the years.

But all in all, these sightings should still be rare and surprising. Kinda like "ghosthunting", you sit there night after night, and nothing unusual happens, but eventually (or so I've heard), something will happen.