remote veiwer challange

[The Pair of Cats]

Because IT DOESN'T EXIST. Frankly, I cannot understand why you waste your time on this stuff.

Rich i think people such as your friend think that way because in their world or reality there is no need for such things to exist. There's more important things for them to do. Pay the mortgage, put their kids through school, their jobs, relationships etc. Mundane problem solving dominates their day to day life. Everything else is just an uneccessary distraction from the path that they have mapped out. In their minds they have already assigned the paranormal and associated subjects to fantasy land and those who dabble in it, time wasters. And why research something that they already consider poppycock when there are so many authors or pseudo researchers who can say it so much better than they can without any thinking or pondering.
Having said all of that i must say that i don't consider any of it to be a critisism, just an observation. People are (and should be) free to believe in whatever they want as long as it harms no other.
The journey of self discovery is such a personal one as i believe is the journey into the realms of the paranormal or metaphysical. What you discover there is usually so intensley personal and the language used to describe, to others, the nature of the same is usually woefully inadequate.

 

[Bob Watson]

I started this thread a long time ago for one simple reason. NO ONE have ever tried to put ppl like ed Dames to the test. now I don't have a mill I don't have even a grand. i won't call some one a fraud. its a simple test I place an object on the center of my dining room table..with no clues given the veiwer must tell to tester what the object is. the nature of the object is known only to me and the tester. the tester tells me the results we verify yes or no...thats all after all Dames has a batting record of ZERO.

 

[bbridges]

Dames is the king of 'frontloading.' I think his claims are easy to discredit. On the other hand, McMoneagle and Riley are more intriguing to me. People's expectations in these matters often make it difficult to discuss RV efficacy in a rational manner.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Dames has largely been discredited amongst the RV community and his peers. He was never a Remote Viewer, he was a monitor. Whatever RVing he has done since leaving the RV program has been solely of his own construct. I see no point in putting him to any test. His results speak for themselves. I would suggest, once again, to those who are prepared to do some research on the subject, look into the names mentioned by bbridges, myself and others. Also do some research into what exactly constitutes Remote Viewing, the strict adherence to protocols and methodology. Anything that strays from that strict adherence to those protocols is NOT Remote Viewing.

 

[Bob Watson]

Let me ask this; is the challange its self a valid test of a remote veiwer? if some claims to be able to see some thing at a distance would this test be one to prove or disprove his or her ability to do so?
if you could come up with a better test let me know!

 

[trainedobserver]

Let me ask this; is the challange its self a valid test of a remote veiwer? if some claims to be able to see some thing at a distance would this test be one to prove or disprove his or her ability to do so?
if you could come up with a better test let me know!

I am thinking that your challenge won't fit into the "real remote viewing" protocols. If I understand them correctly that is.

 

[Bob Watson]

the challange is this:
I place an item that is of a unique nature in the center of my dining room table.
I tell the tester what the item is. the tester is fobidden to write down or discuss the item in any way.
the remote veiwer is given a general location to veiw. IE my city and state.
the veiwer will have 24 hours to locate my home and the objet. please note the veiwer is NOT provided with my adress.
the tester will then ask the veiwer if he has veiwed the item. when the veiwer tells the tester what he beleves the item is.
the tester DOSE NOT inform the veiwer if he has hit but contacts me for verification
I tell the tester hit or mis
the tester tells the veiwer the results and concludes the test.
that is the challange in a nutshell I can establish more "protocalls" with the tester as it become nessery when I accully set up the challange.

---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------

one other thing this is to see if a remote veiwer can find an item that is unknown in an unknown location

 

[The Pair of Cats]

the challange is this:
I place an item that is of a unique nature in the center of my dining room table.
I tell the tester what the item is. the tester is fobidden to write down or discuss the item in any way.
the remote veiwer is given a general location to veiw. IE my city and state.
the veiwer will have 24 hours to locate my home and the objet. please note the veiwer is NOT provided with my adress.
the tester will then ask the veiwer if he has veiwed the item. when the veiwer tells the tester what he beleves the item is.
the tester DOSE NOT inform the veiwer if he has hit but contacts me for verification
I tell the tester hit or mis
the tester tells the veiwer the results and concludes the test.
that is the challange in a nutshell I can establish more "protocalls" with the tester as it become nessery when I accully set up the challange.

---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 PM ----------

one other thing this is to see if a remote veiwer can find an item that is unknown in an unknown location

Why don't you do the test yourself? You put yourself in the place of the person trying to locate the object or whatever.

 

[Bob Watson]

Why don't you do the test yourself? You put yourself in the place of the person trying to locate the object or whatever.

Becuse I don't have Psyic power Im not a remote veiwer and If I tried and suceded it would be 100 million to 1...
I don't go on the radio and make outragios claims of accuracy. I don't try to make money off of powers I don't have. Im a normal man living a somewhat normal life. thats wh. I dont need to be tested.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Becuse I don't have Psyic power Im not a remote veiwer and If I tried and suceded it would be 100 million to 1...
I don't go on the radio and make outragios claims of accuracy. I don't try to make money off of powers I don't have. Im a normal man living a somewhat normal life. thats wh. I dont need to be tested.

So why are you concerned about Ed Dames and his ilk. He is not representative Of ALL Remote Viewers. HE WAS NOT EVEN A REMOTE VIEWER, HE WAS A MONITOR. His claims are bogus, blind Freddy can see that. We already know this. Why do we have to test him to prove that fact?
I suggested you do a test for yourself because if you are having trouble coming to terms with the fact that RV might be possible then the best way is to try it yourself, using the correct protocols. The testing procedure you have presented is NOT RV. It is asking for a demonstration of psychic ability, nothing more. At the risk of repeating myself, you need to follow the correct procedures and use the protocols designed for Remote Viewing.

Psychic ability is not reserved for the "special" or the 7th son of a 7th son etc. Every one has psychic ability. We are all born with it. It's like drawing pictures. Everyone can do it, just some are better at it than others. But with the correct training anybody can improve their abilities both in drawing and Remote Viewing. Training is essential to RV. Avoiding front loading. Following appropriate protocols and a strict adherence to them is vital for any psychic functioning to be termed Remote Viewing.

I think you are trying to take the easy way out. Not bothering to investigate Remote Viewing in any form, just making stuff up off the top of your head.
I think that you have no interest in RV other than to disprove it and you are unwilling to do any REAL research into it other than to cherry pick the information that bolsters your argument.
If you dislike the Ed Dames and Sylvia Brownes of this world, that is fine (although S.B is not a Remote Viewer). They deserve everybody's scorn. They are rubbish i agree. But before you go off half cocked at least do your homework.

Remote viewing has 25+ years of research and results to prove its validity, it doesn't need Randi's Trillion Dollar Challenge to verify it. I'm sure the US Army Intelligence services would not have wasted millions of dollars in tax payers money if it was all crap. They paid the money because they got results.
The problem here is that the people who are true disbelievers (debunkers) point to this challenge as the definitive vehicle for proof for or against psychic functioning and RV etc.. Those who stand by it conveniently ignore the copious amounts of evidence available to them because they truly don't want to believe that any of it is possible. In other words if they don't believe in it then nobody else should either.

 

[Bob Watson]

Then you get a "quilifed" remote veiwer and have him try the test...I am willing to admit the existance of remote veiwing if it is PROVED. I mention Dames becuse he is the most famous of them all. Im not "making stuff up" Im willing to do "REAL" resech. Im willing to to this test any time. and are you "trianed" do you CLAIM to have remote veiwing "powers" I will start leaving the item out in that case..rember great claims requre great proof. and please post the "copious" evidance here so all can see it. I await your proof show me prove me wrong where is your 25+ years of results? may I see the 25 years worth of results? put your proof where your mouth is don't just TELL me its real PROVE IT...
post your evidence post your proof...as for me I won't even dain to dignify the assertion that I have any so called "powers"... I said enough...now i leave it on your door post your proof pls... and I wont exept your word . I want to see HARD evididnce...

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Then you get a "quilifed" remote veiwer and have him try the test...I am willing to admit the existance of remote veiwing if it is PROVED. I mention Dames becuse he is the most famous of them all. Im not "making stuff up" Im willing to do "REAL" resech. Im willing to to this test any time. and are you "trianed" do you CLAIM to have remote veiwing "powers" I will start leaving the item out in that case..rember great claims requre great proof. and please post the "copious" evidance here so all can see it. I await your proof show me prove me wrong where is your 25+ years of results? may I see the 25 years worth of results? put your proof where your mouth is don't just TELL me its real PROVE IT...
post your evidence post your proof...as for me I won't even dain to dignify the assertion that I have any so called "powers"... I said enough...now i leave it on your door post your proof pls... and I wont exept your word . I want to see HARD evididnce...

Dear oh dear. I am not a remote viewer. I do not have special powers. I do understand psychic functioning and have used it for 18 years in various psychic mediums. I make NO claims as to my competency or abilities, i leave that to my clients. I therefore have SOME understanding of the methodology behind the protocols of Remote Viewing. I have never said that i am a remote viewer or that i have performed the same using the protocols required to do so. I have read, researched, googled etc. the subject. Having said that, i am far from an expert on the subject. What i am asking you to do is research the names given to you, the same ones that you will find in the links provided. They are the REAL experts. The ones who actually were involved in the RV program. Do yourself and everyone else a big favor and read up on them, you might learn something (hopefully). Forum member Teresa has spent a lot of time compiling literature in regards to this subject and my hat goes off to her for doing so.

Then you get a "quilifed" remote veiwer and have him try the test...I am willing to admit the existance of remote veiwing if it is PROVED.

I don't know of any Remote Viewers who have quills or indeed have been "quillified" lol You might want to check out google for remote viewing porcupines. extra lol!

The fact that you say that Dames is the most famous of them all shows your ignorance and a woeful lack of any research whatsoever. What part of .. "Dames has largely been discredited amongst the RV community and his peers", do you not understand!

If you are willing to do "real" research then for pity's sake DO IT. DON"T ask me to do your work for you. Just google "Remote Viewing" ffs. But just to prove i'm a nice guy here are links to forum threads that contain a veritable goldmine of links to remote viewing material.
*eightmartinis Issue 3: Controlled Remote Viewing in 2010. No smoke, no mirrors.
remote viewing
Also read the book-The Ultimate Time Machine by Joseph McMoneagle. He was Remote Viewer #001 in the US Army's Remote Viewing program (and probably the most famous Remote Viewer of them all).
But i know this all may be fruitless. As they say, ...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it do any research or reading!
In the end i have nothing to prove, to you or anyone else for that matter. If you choose to believe that RV is rubbish then good for you. I have at least studied the subject and have tried my hand at psychic functioning to my own satisfaction. Can you say the same? I guess not. You seem content to parrot the words of others without any real understanding of the subject and demand hard evidence without doing any research. You want everything handed to you on a plate. Well piss off and go do your own homework sonny boy.
Maybe a start would be investing in a spell checker ffs

 

[trainedobserver]

Even though the remote viewing program allegedly produced results it was cancelled. Having worked on projects that produced results but were nevertheless canceled due to budgetary concerns. bone-headed management, and corporate politics, that fact isn't that damning. However, I am astounded that given the number of years, and the amount of money spent on looking for OBL that CRV wasn't used (by someone, official or non) to ferret out the fellow in a more expeditious fashion. Also, there are any number of commercial applications for CRV if actually worked as advertised, but what do we have coming out of the CRV cottage industry? Instruction courses. Is anyone employing CRV in any consistent manner to locate rare natural resources, lost children, wanted criminals, sunken vessels, etc., etc.? I mean, that is the kinds of questions that come to my mind when I consider the claims surrounding CRV.

Now, having said that, I have spoken to people I trust who swear they have encountered others who have displayed this ability. Having no first hand experience myself, I wonder how much of these displays could be attributed to mentalist type techniques which can be incredibly impressive.

 

[Bob Watson]

Dear oh dear. I am not a remote viewer. I do not have special powers. I do understand psychic functioning and have used it for 18 years in various psychic mediums. I make NO claims as to my competency or abilities, i leave that to my clients. I therefore have SOME understanding of the methodology behind the protocols of Remote Viewing. I have never said that i am a remote viewer or that i have performed the same using the protocols required to do so. I have read, researched, googled etc. the subject. Having said that, i am far from an expert on the subject. What i am asking you to do is research the names given to you, the same ones that you will find in the links provided. They are the REAL experts. The ones who actually were involved in the RV program. Do yourself and everyone else a big favor and read up on them, you might learn something (hopefully). Forum member Teresa has spent a lot of time compiling literature in regards to this subject and my hat goes off to her for doing so.


I don't know of any Remote Viewers who have quills or indeed have been "quillified" lol You might want to check out google for remote viewing porcupines. extra lol!

The fact that you say that Dames is the most famous of them all shows your ignorance and a woeful lack of any research whatsoever. What part of .. "Dames has largely been discredited amongst the RV community and his peers", do you not understand!

If you are willing to do "real" research then for pity's sake DO IT. DON"T ask me to do your work for you. Just google "Remote Viewing" ffs. But just to prove i'm a nice guy here are links to forum threads that contain a veritable goldmine of links to remote viewing material.
*eightmartinis Issue 3: Controlled Remote Viewing in 2010. No smoke, no mirrors.
remote viewing
Also read the book-The Ultimate Time Machine by Joseph McMoneagle. He was Remote Viewer #001 in the US Army's Remote Viewing program (and probably the most famous Remote Viewer of them all).
But i know this all may be fruitless. As they say, ...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it do any research or reading!
In the end i have nothing to prove, to you or anyone else for that matter. If you choose to believe that RV is rubbish then good for you. I have at least studied the subject and have tried my hand at psychic functioning to my own satisfaction. Can you say the same? I guess not. You seem content to parrot the words of others without any real understanding of the subject and demand hard evidence without doing any research. You want everything handed to you on a plate. Well piss off and go do your own homework sonny boy.
Maybe a start would be investing in a spell checker ffs

Its the same as ever I ask for hard evidance and I get the run around "go find it your self"Sigh...I can clearly see you have no evidence to present except to say look it up or read a Biased book. You don't have to prove any thing I already see you will beleve anything you see or hear. without experiancing it your self. I Have seen that most who claim to be remote veiwers are frauds.
Since you asked me to "Do my homework" I will indulge you a bit. As I mentioned in other threads here my father was in the US Army I will ask him to do an open request for the DD 214 fourm for Joseph McMoneagle (any one can ask for this info) To see if this man ever was in the military at all.
this wiil not prove he was in a RV project,But will at least tell me he is honest in his claim of being in the military.
and last I don't care a lot for your calling me "sonny boy" or I shoud invest in a spell checker...
its a case of you don't like what I have to say so you insult me...
but oh well!

---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

Ok you asked me to "do my homework" well here we go Just the start. McMoneagle was in the military he was in "project stargate" how ever the army cancelled project stargate...WHY read here to find out...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project

in case you are to lazy to click on a link; it was cancelled becuse it was to unrelable to gain information of value in a timly manner.
again it seems that "remote veiwing even by "trained" ppl is not relible and the information gained is somewhat greater than a chance guess...Just the start...more to come as i find it and rember you asked me to "do my homework"...

 

[tyder001]

The thing is honestly this. I once read a "pyschologist" who said "You will NEVER, EVER, have a prophetic dream because it is impossible to do so. Now, I had "read" many studies that showed the doc to be wrong. But, they could have been accused of being biased or lazy or just wrong. BUT, I actually had for myself a "prophetic" dream which I then validated with a uber skeptical friend of mine. Point is after that I didn't need a study and all the pshyco babble in the world will never be able to change what I know from experience. Now, first of all understand this. "I" am not "trying" to prove that all dreams are prophetic or that I can pick the race horses at the track. I'm just saying that the particular "scientist" who made that statement was wrong. But, I am saying that all the papers and letters and studies in the world would not have convinced me one way or the other, the way my own experience did. So, it is lazy to say "Prove it to me." Prove it to yourself. Otherwise just continue reading the folks that reinforce your own world view. You will be much more comfortable that way.

---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

Anyway, I'll stay out of this one. I just insulted a Christian fundi friend a minute ago and I gotta try to apologize without being condesending or dishonest. It's not just the staunch materialist that I have problems with. I just think ANYBODY who makes dogmatic statements is silly. Hmmm, was that dogmatic? Does that make me....Nahhh! 8)

 

[Bob Watson]

I will simply conclude by asking this why is we never see this headline: "renowned Remote Veiwer/Psyic forsees lottery numbers wins big!"

 

[tyder001]

Maybe because they don't want uncles and cousins and pals from years gone by coming outta the wood work.

---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 PM ----------

I'm being silly today. But, in reality it's an old argument. How many people do take the ticket home and "meditate" on the numbers and then win. There are two extreme camps. Camp one might say that "anybody" who wins used some form of ESP even if they don't realize it.
Camp two would say "anybody" who wins just happened to get the correct numbers. Otherwise they should be able to win again next week and the week after and the week after that.
Like I said before. Just keep heaping teachers to your ears that validate your world view. It's what most all of us (including me) tend to do. 8)

 

[trainedobserver]

I will simply conclude by asking this why is we never see this headline: "renowned Remote Veiwer/Psyic forsees lottery numbers wins big!"

The argument is that those with this ability cannot use it for such purposes, prevented by some ethical or moral governor of sorts.

I would think that anyone actually possessing real psychic abilities would do everything in their power to keep them a secret. I would not tell a soul. I certainly would not utilize it in the entertainment industry. That should be an immediate tell. The great hoaxer, faker, Uri Geller comes to mind. A complete and total fraud who continues to string people along and who had some scientists (and I use the term loosely) scratching their heads at his parlor tricks. If there are individuals who can read minds, view remote locations, look into the future, etc.,etc. they would not be on Oprah or The Tonight Show flaunting it like it was an extra appendage and they in a freak show. They would not be selling how to books. No, I think they would keep to themselves and remain as invisible as possible. Anyone exhibiting true paranormal abilities would be as valuable and sought after as unobtainium to certain parties. I wouldn't want to be on that list of potential assets.

 

[tyder001]

I was just thinking that you don't see Ingo Swann and Joesph Moneagle and others doing the "debates" and trying to prove anything on every talk show around. You don't see Doctor Pin Lomel running from the Xzone to the Paracast to Coast to Coast trying to convince others of his research. You really didn't see Ian Stevenson sweating that Michael Schermer didn't believe him. I'm not saying one or any of these folks are right. I am saying that there truly does exist some provocative research done by true researchers. But, the dog and pony shows on t.v. and the talk circuit rarely if ever are graced by them. Better to let Uncle Stan argue with Cousin Paul on nuts and bolts Space man Spiff than try to study and answer real research.

 

[Randall]

Hmmm ... I'm getting an image in my head .... it's small and sculpted ... got it! It's a doll or action figure ... or a toy car ... someting with wheels, something round ... maybe a coin, or possibly spherical like a signed baseball or related to baseball or sports or heroes ... that's it ... a baseball card ... or maybe a superhero collectors card ... or I think I've got it ... it's coming in now ... a rare comic book! Or possibly just a book ... geese I just know it's something with rare historical value ... I can just feel it.